Is there such a thing as a desirable diesel?
Discussion
having had my a8 for about 4 years now, I would struggle to have a similar experience in any other car,
its an 06 car with 150k miles on the clock, 3.0tdi with a remap. i drove from glasgow to edinburgh, drove around edinburgh for about an hour and drove back to glasgow.
1. it's bloody quick, the torque is absolutely insane and you would never think it was possible to quick in a car that size
2. The motorway journey between done between glasgow and edinburgh, after the average cameras I sat at 90mph with cruise control on. It was delightful and i could hear myself whisper.
throughout all this i was not exactly driving efficiently, I enjoyed myself, the speed was there when i wanted it and it would be comfortable at 90mph on the motorway, yet i still averaged 46mpg!!
can not complain
its an 06 car with 150k miles on the clock, 3.0tdi with a remap. i drove from glasgow to edinburgh, drove around edinburgh for about an hour and drove back to glasgow.
1. it's bloody quick, the torque is absolutely insane and you would never think it was possible to quick in a car that size
2. The motorway journey between done between glasgow and edinburgh, after the average cameras I sat at 90mph with cruise control on. It was delightful and i could hear myself whisper.
throughout all this i was not exactly driving efficiently, I enjoyed myself, the speed was there when i wanted it and it would be comfortable at 90mph on the motorway, yet i still averaged 46mpg!!
can not complain
Al U said:
Anyway answering the thread and taking the above into account, the diesel cars I would like to own are -
BMW 640D - Like the look of them, can imagine arriving at places feeling much fresher in that and being more willing to take my time and be patient with other drivers due to being in a nicer car.
I will give you my experience most people are patient, barring the usual idiots of the road and those that are "anti-BMW" so drive like a tosser around me. Most of the other times other BMW drivers stare and most people look at mine as a "nice" car is the usual complement, the only argument I over hear fairly regularly is being a "640D" should mean still in some minds that is a 4.0 litre engine, usually if given an opportunity say it is only a 3.0 6 pot. BMW 640D - Like the look of them, can imagine arriving at places feeling much fresher in that and being more willing to take my time and be patient with other drivers due to being in a nicer car.
Occasionally mine gives the wee hot hatches around here a surprise as they see a comparatively huge barge keeping up quite nicely, more so when the road opens up, down narrower roads the scale of the 6 causes the odd issue so taking time is a must. Motorway miles are easy, the D will still pull in 8th in manual sport mode at 70 no issue, absolute breeze of a car, cruised around 300 miles at a whisker under 50 MPG to boot for a car weighing in at 2000kg (and fully loaded up).
The only downsides I have truly found for some the ride is firm occasionally upset by some road surface defects, ride wise if you want softer then get the VDC or dynamic drive, Tyre size and profiles with pot holes cause the odd issue on 20's along with the size in some narrower roads as said above.
For those that doubt taking a diesel for a fun drive I have done it in the 6 when my back was bad (instead of the MX5) so decided alright then, sport+ mode and yes it was genuinely enjoyable relying on the torque and using the paddles. I still take mine the long route home just because I can, I think for me I accepted that the 6 was a "barge" and it does make you giggle still, but it is entirely different to taking the MX5 on the same route.
So what am I most thankful for in the 6, the ZF box, ironically the engine note even if fake in day to day life it is not "bad", still having more than 4 cylinders in a car and generally the ease at which you arrive at destinations and then noticing the parking bay is too short for the car (rather like my work ones where it just hangs over slightly).
Having owned a good diesel - 335d, I just can't get on with how they drive.
Great for effortless lazy cruising, but no joy whatsoever at all to be had from a fast drive, no point taking to the red line, monotone engine note etc, just makes for a properly dull and boring car.
I'd run one if I did high miles though, but it'd be a cheap 2.0 tdi or something and have something with a lovely petrol engine for everything else/
Great for effortless lazy cruising, but no joy whatsoever at all to be had from a fast drive, no point taking to the red line, monotone engine note etc, just makes for a properly dull and boring car.
I'd run one if I did high miles though, but it'd be a cheap 2.0 tdi or something and have something with a lovely petrol engine for everything else/
Max_Torque said:
Fastdruid said:
Max_Torque said:
GravelMachineGun said:
No idea why people hate diesels so much.
I'm convinced it's because they think it makes them look all "cool" and "sporting" or whatever. Same reasons that EVs will apparently "never work".........Ares said:
Fastdruid said:
Outside of that I can admire the effort that goes into fast diesels, for example if you take a 640d and I can admire how fast it is but there is no desire for it.
....For you.Ironically, my 640d GC is the most admired car I've had based on comments from strangers, including my Caterham and Exige.
daytona111r said:
V8RX7 said:
^^^This answers the question beautifully.
They are ONLY desirable to those who cannot afford to run the equivalent petrol.
No one chooses the smell or noise of diesel - they choose the economy.
bThey are ONLY desirable to those who cannot afford to run the equivalent petrol.
No one chooses the smell or noise of diesel - they choose the economy.
ks. Take an Audi A3 2.0 tdi vs 2.0 petrol as example. I would choose the tdi for its torque every single time over the petrol. In normal traffic it can feel fast with a bit of grunt, where you have to work the patrol engine hard and it feels wheezy. Granted it doesn't sound great at idle, but the petrol sounds pathetic anyway., And driving them to extract similar levels of performance, the diesel has superior economy. How many diesel Bentley / Rolls Royce / Ferarri / Lamborghini are sold ?
I don't think anyone "aspires" to own a diesel. I've always understood why they exist and how they have their uses and a place in the world. But i've never woken up and realised that i really want/need a diesel in my life.
Saying that, i'm yet to need one as my mileage is around 8-10k per anum. I'm sure one day i may have no choice but to commit to one or have as a company car if i'm doing big mileage all of a sudden. Until then, petrol it is for me.
Saying that, i'm yet to need one as my mileage is around 8-10k per anum. I'm sure one day i may have no choice but to commit to one or have as a company car if i'm doing big mileage all of a sudden. Until then, petrol it is for me.
andy-xr said:
I quite like diesels. I like mid range pull, and filling it up once a month, paying a relatively small amount of road tax and having reasonably cheap insurance. I hear a bit of a noise from the engine, and maybe I change gear more often than I would if it were a petrol, but it's not enough of an issue for me, like I dont go out of my way to decry diesels as the devils work. They're just there, doing what they do helping me do what I do
The price point where I buy cars puts the newer small petrol turbo engines out of reach for me. I probably wouldnt buy one on 5+ years time when they come down to my price bracket either, because it'll likely have 100k+ miles on it and I'm not convinced that a 1.0 turbo petrol in a Focus sized car can really face that stress and be reliable. I know most diesels can, even if they need a flywheel or a set of injectors to get going again.
But to answer the question, I'd be interested in the 4.2 TDI A8
I've got one The price point where I buy cars puts the newer small petrol turbo engines out of reach for me. I probably wouldnt buy one on 5+ years time when they come down to my price bracket either, because it'll likely have 100k+ miles on it and I'm not convinced that a 1.0 turbo petrol in a Focus sized car can really face that stress and be reliable. I know most diesels can, even if they need a flywheel or a set of injectors to get going again.
But to answer the question, I'd be interested in the 4.2 TDI A8
They're fking awesome 
V8RX7 said:
daytona111r said:
V8RX7 said:
^^^This answers the question beautifully.
They are ONLY desirable to those who cannot afford to run the equivalent petrol.
No one chooses the smell or noise of diesel - they choose the economy.
bThey are ONLY desirable to those who cannot afford to run the equivalent petrol.
No one chooses the smell or noise of diesel - they choose the economy.
ks. Take an Audi A3 2.0 tdi vs 2.0 petrol as example. I would choose the tdi for its torque every single time over the petrol. In normal traffic it can feel fast with a bit of grunt, where you have to work the patrol engine hard and it feels wheezy. Granted it doesn't sound great at idle, but the petrol sounds pathetic anyway., And driving them to extract similar levels of performance, the diesel has superior economy. How many diesel Bentley / Rolls Royce / Ferarri / Lamborghini are sold ?
I certainly wouldnt turn my nose up at any of them.
Fastdruid said:
Nanook said:
daytona111r said:
bks. Take an Audi A3 2.0 tdi vs 2.0 petrol as example. I would choose the tdi for its torque every single time over the petrol. In normal traffic it can feel fast with a bit of grunt, where you have to work the patrol engine hard and it feels wheezy. Granted it doesn't sound great at idle, but the petrol sounds pathetic anyway., And driving them to extract similar levels of performance, the diesel has superior economy.
The petrol A3 (exclusing the 2.0 S3) makes 220bhp and 258lbft.ks. Take an Audi A3 2.0 tdi vs 2.0 petrol as example. I would choose the tdi for its torque every single time over the petrol. In normal traffic it can feel fast with a bit of grunt, where you have to work the patrol engine hard and it feels wheezy. Granted it doesn't sound great at idle, but the petrol sounds pathetic anyway., And driving them to extract similar levels of performance, the diesel has superior economy. The diesel makes 181bhp & 280lbft, is slower to 60, 100, and lower top end.
Wheezy? What?
Fastdruid said:
I'd bet they are admiring the 6 bit of that rather than the d...
Disagree if I went to my local Tesco's now and specifically went searching for modern BMW's I could probably bet that a majority would end in "16d,18d,20d".Even going to my local BMW dealership there is "only" 28 petrols for sale and only 7 of that are 35i's or M's...the rest are all 4 cylinder engines, diesels 73 for sale...20 of which are 6 pots, finally rounding the field with 3 hybrids....Even the SM that I know well thinks 4 pots are crap (petrol or diesel), he likes the 6 pots and above, but admits the 6 pot petrols for larger miles are a silly decision, he even went on to say that most of the M models are pretty much excessively powerful for the roads to be used in any fun manner....
Edited by Ninja59 on Thursday 13th October 13:51
p1stonhead said:
What about Range Rover, Maserati, Porsche?
I certainly wouldnt turn my nose up at any of them.
Indeed but the full blown petrol models are more desirable. The cheaper and more economic diesel ones are merely more affordable/sensible/practical etc. I certainly wouldnt turn my nose up at any of them.
Desirability is rarely in sync with affordability or practicality. In fact in more traditional terms they are more at odds as the impression of the term desire suggests the wanting of something that you don't have or can't have. Few blokes grow up desiring to be long distance coat hanger salesmen, the majority grow up desiring to successful, happy, actractive to the opposite sex etc.
Ninja59 said:
Fastdruid said:
I'd bet they are admiring the 6 bit of that rather than the d...
Disagree if I went to my local Tesco's now and specifically went searching for modern BMW's I could probably bet that a majority would end in "16d,18d,20d".Even going to my local BMW dealership there is "only" 28 petrols for sale and only 7 of that are 35i's or M's...the rest are all 4 cylinder engines, diesels 73 for sale...20 of which are 6 pots, finally rounding the field with 3 hybrids....Even the SM that I know well thinks 4 pots are crap (petrol or diesel), he likes the 6 pots and above, but admits the 6 pot petrols for larger miles are a silly decision, he even went on to say that most of the M models are pretty much excessively powerful for the roads to be used in any fun manner....
Limpet said:
Only on this website does a diesel engine make even the nicest of cars automatically undesirable. Extraordinary.
I've said the same thing. An identically performing engine in an identical car can turn a desirable car into a dreadful hated agricultural piece of st, merely due to the rule that you put in once a month. Welcome to the world of the bigoted keyboard warrior
Ninja59 said:
Al U said:
Anyway answering the thread and taking the above into account, the diesel cars I would like to own are -
BMW 640D - Like the look of them, can imagine arriving at places feeling much fresher in that and being more willing to take my time and be patient with other drivers due to being in a nicer car.
I will give you my experience most people are patient, barring the usual idiots of the road and those that are "anti-BMW" so drive like a tosser around me. Most of the other times other BMW drivers stare and most people look at mine as a "nice" car is the usual complement, the only argument I over hear fairly regularly is being a "640D" should mean still in some minds that is a 4.0 litre engine, usually if given an opportunity say it is only a 3.0 6 pot. BMW 640D - Like the look of them, can imagine arriving at places feeling much fresher in that and being more willing to take my time and be patient with other drivers due to being in a nicer car.
Occasionally mine gives the wee hot hatches around here a surprise as they see a comparatively huge barge keeping up quite nicely, more so when the road opens up, down narrower roads the scale of the 6 causes the odd issue so taking time is a must. Motorway miles are easy, the D will still pull in 8th in manual sport mode at 70 no issue, absolute breeze of a car, cruised around 300 miles at a whisker under 50 MPG to boot for a car weighing in at 2000kg (and fully loaded up).
The only downsides I have truly found for some the ride is firm occasionally upset by some road surface defects, ride wise if you want softer then get the VDC or dynamic drive, Tyre size and profiles with pot holes cause the odd issue on 20's along with the size in some narrower roads as said above.
For those that doubt taking a diesel for a fun drive I have done it in the 6 when my back was bad (instead of the MX5) so decided alright then, sport+ mode and yes it was genuinely enjoyable relying on the torque and using the paddles. I still take mine the long route home just because I can, I think for me I accepted that the 6 was a "barge" and it does make you giggle still, but it is entirely different to taking the MX5 on the same route.
So what am I most thankful for in the 6, the ZF box, ironically the engine note even if fake in day to day life it is not "bad", still having more than 4 cylinders in a car and generally the ease at which you arrive at destinations and then noticing the parking bay is too short for the car (rather like my work ones where it just hangs over slightly).
On the suspension, try the Schnitzer springs and non-RFT. I had the spring done when I had the engine kit fitted, then the tyres done 6mths later - both transformed the car's ride, and handling. It totally eradicated everything you said about the downside.
Fastdruid said:
Ares said:
Fastdruid said:
Outside of that I can admire the effort that goes into fast diesels, for example if you take a 640d and I can admire how fast it is but there is no desire for it.
....For you.Ironically, my 640d GC is the most admired car I've had based on comments from strangers, including my Caterham and Exige.
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