Is there such a thing as a desirable diesel?
Discussion
Fastdruid said:
Ninja59 said:
Fastdruid said:
I'd bet they are admiring the 6 bit of that rather than the d...
Disagree if I went to my local Tesco's now and specifically went searching for modern BMW's I could probably bet that a majority would end in "16d,18d,20d".Even going to my local BMW dealership there is "only" 28 petrols for sale and only 7 of that are 35i's or M's...the rest are all 4 cylinder engines, diesels 73 for sale...20 of which are 6 pots, finally rounding the field with 3 hybrids....Even the SM that I know well thinks 4 pots are crap (petrol or diesel), he likes the 6 pots and above, but admits the 6 pot petrols for larger miles are a silly decision, he even went on to say that most of the M models are pretty much excessively powerful for the roads to be used in any fun manner....
Fastdruid said:
But they're admiring the car/model regardless of the engine is my point. I'm sure Ares would get just as many people admiring his car if it was a 640i GC instead. Or even if it was de-badged and no-one knew what powered it.
But my point is my engine despite being a "d" the engine has, 6 pots are dying out in many forms as people want more mpg and cheaper costs, hence my comment that most would be 4 cyl modern bmw's. Everyone is still looking at the official figures will see amazing figures,discount a % and come to a figure in the real world they would accept and convert that to a cost, irrespective of engine size, cylinder count or fuel type.I quite like diesels - I have one that I use as a daily and a petrol car for my weekend fun. For me the benefit is the balance of big car, lots of space, torque, range and economy. Admittedly though it is a company car - if I was paying for it myself I probably wouldn't go for one.
I think they are desirable - the BMW 4 series M performance equipped cars look really good to me.
I think they are desirable - the BMW 4 series M performance equipped cars look really good to me.
Interesting reading and some good points. By the sounds of it, some of you drive diesels that I think that I would like (640d, A8 etc). I quite like the Golf 7 and would be quite happy to drive a Golf GTD. Having a diesel engine doesn't turn it into a bad car but would I have one over a GTI? Probably not. As some others have said though, I have never really understood the point of the V8 petrol supercharged Range Rover. For me, a Range Rover would be a comfortable, long distance car or a tow car and the V6/V8 diesel fulfills this brief better. The supercharged V8 doesn't make the Range Rover a sports car and the fuel range must be terrible! That engine in an F-Type or even an XF though? Yes please!
I've always been fairly intrigued by the 5-pot Alfa and Volvo diesels too.
The one 4-pot diesel that I might consider through choice though is one of these. They're probably a bit pointless but I like the quirky looks of the 3 door/coupe (reminds me a bit of the original RR) and the diesel (probably auto) version would probably be quite a nice, economical commuter that could deal with the uncleared, snowy roads around here pretty well in winter. Again, for this particular vehicle, I don't really see the benefit of the petrol version over the diesel. All a bit academic though, as they're a little out of my price range at the moment.
I've always been fairly intrigued by the 5-pot Alfa and Volvo diesels too.
The one 4-pot diesel that I might consider through choice though is one of these. They're probably a bit pointless but I like the quirky looks of the 3 door/coupe (reminds me a bit of the original RR) and the diesel (probably auto) version would probably be quite a nice, economical commuter that could deal with the uncleared, snowy roads around here pretty well in winter. Again, for this particular vehicle, I don't really see the benefit of the petrol version over the diesel. All a bit academic though, as they're a little out of my price range at the moment.
Funny you should say that about the Range Rover as that is definitely a car which is suited to a diesel engine. The petrol version is just daft and is really quite pointless as i know Mr Clarkson also said when reviewing those daft, big-engine'd, petrol SUV's.
Also, as much as i do like petrol, the 1.4 TFSI unit in my B9 A4 makes no sense whatsoever. The turbo lag is horrendous, the noise isn't particularly great, it's not fast or particularly fun to rev out, the list goes on. A diesel lump is more more suitable for it IMO.
Also, as much as i do like petrol, the 1.4 TFSI unit in my B9 A4 makes no sense whatsoever. The turbo lag is horrendous, the noise isn't particularly great, it's not fast or particularly fun to rev out, the list goes on. A diesel lump is more more suitable for it IMO.
culpz said:
Funny you should say that about the Range Rover as that is definitely a car which is suited to a diesel engine. The petrol version is just daft and is really quite pointless as i know Mr Clarkson also said when reviewing those daft, big-engine'd, petrol SUV's.
Also, as much as i do like petrol, the 1.4 TFSI unit in my B9 A4 makes no sense whatsoever. The turbo lag is horrendous, the noise isn't particularly great, it's not fast or particularly fun to rev out, the list goes on. A diesel lump is more more suitable for it IMO.
To be fair, I'm sure that the Cayenne Turbo S and X5M handle really well and would be quite good fun but the RR is definitely more luxury than sports car.Also, as much as i do like petrol, the 1.4 TFSI unit in my B9 A4 makes no sense whatsoever. The turbo lag is horrendous, the noise isn't particularly great, it's not fast or particularly fun to rev out, the list goes on. A diesel lump is more more suitable for it IMO.
For the majority of men the most aspirational car is a range rover vogue. It is often bought as a diesel.
I onow many people on here will now disagree and tell me their mx5 is better and how range rover drivers are idiots
Many women or even young men would like a TT diesel, slk diesel and so on
How about an s class diesel?
So yes is the answer
I onow many people on here will now disagree and tell me their mx5 is better and how range rover drivers are idiots
Many women or even young men would like a TT diesel, slk diesel and so on
How about an s class diesel?
So yes is the answer
People desire things for different reasons, doesnt make it right or wrong, diesel make sense for so many people, a lot dont look any further than the diesel option, they know they will like the power delivery and the economy, I would take a turbo diesel over a N/A petrol in most daily type cars but would rather have the petrol turbo or large capacity option but nobody really wants a peaky 1.3 to 1.8 N/A in a decent sized car, its hard work compared to the grunt the diesel option has in comparison.
t and they stink.I think the word desire is a difficult one here. People seem to mistake the car model with the engine it has. Like the 6 series admiration, people admire the car not the fact that has a diesel in it!
I think people buy diesels mostly because they want less trips to the petrol station and want to save money. In many cases that is a false economy as initial extra outlay, servicing costs may make the diesel not so economic after all.
Some cars suit diesels better like a bit SUV, a tractor, a lorry, a big barge motorway cruiser. I have diesel cars but also petrol and more and more I don't see myself buying diesels in the future. My mileage does not warrant it and with great auto boxes a bit powerful petrol can cruise quietly in the motorway quite nicely too.
Perhaps on small engine/power cars the low down grunt will be more necessary to actually just enjoy the drive so maybe a small diesel may be more desirable than a small petrol.
Apart from a big SUV or a big barge I don't have any desire to drive a diesel. In the case of the 640d, 3.0 BiTDI, etc on medium sized cars I just don't see the benefit, unless you do mega miles. If you do 10-15k a year why would you consider one? If you can afford an expensive car like that why can't you afford to have a petrol one, in the total costs of those cars the petrol choice won't be too much more onerous to run fuel wise.
For example if you do 15k a year and drive a powerful diesel and say you average 50mpg, if you do the same 15k on a petrol that averages 30mpg the petrol will cost you only an extra 100 quid a month extra in fuel. Now if you drive a 60-70k car and can't afford an extra 100 quid a month that is odd.
The real question is all costs equal, would you still prefer to drive a diesel?
I think people buy diesels mostly because they want less trips to the petrol station and want to save money. In many cases that is a false economy as initial extra outlay, servicing costs may make the diesel not so economic after all.
Some cars suit diesels better like a bit SUV, a tractor, a lorry, a big barge motorway cruiser. I have diesel cars but also petrol and more and more I don't see myself buying diesels in the future. My mileage does not warrant it and with great auto boxes a bit powerful petrol can cruise quietly in the motorway quite nicely too.
Perhaps on small engine/power cars the low down grunt will be more necessary to actually just enjoy the drive so maybe a small diesel may be more desirable than a small petrol.
Apart from a big SUV or a big barge I don't have any desire to drive a diesel. In the case of the 640d, 3.0 BiTDI, etc on medium sized cars I just don't see the benefit, unless you do mega miles. If you do 10-15k a year why would you consider one? If you can afford an expensive car like that why can't you afford to have a petrol one, in the total costs of those cars the petrol choice won't be too much more onerous to run fuel wise.
For example if you do 15k a year and drive a powerful diesel and say you average 50mpg, if you do the same 15k on a petrol that averages 30mpg the petrol will cost you only an extra 100 quid a month extra in fuel. Now if you drive a 60-70k car and can't afford an extra 100 quid a month that is odd.
The real question is all costs equal, would you still prefer to drive a diesel?
Ahbefive said:
So we have ascertained that nobody really wants diesels its just that they can do economy better than petrols. So only desirable for money saving reasons.
/thread.
And most don't really work it out. /thread.
They compare their 10 year old petrol with a modern diesel and think "Wow! I have saved loads!"
The reality is very different.
I have owned enough cars in the petrol and diesel version to realise the difference is normally around 10-20% mpg wise.
My current car is a 3.5 litre petrol E Class estate, 305bhp and it returns 30mpg average and 35mpg on a run. I had the E350cdi before that, same car just in diesel guise, it returned 33mpg average and saw 40mpg on a run.
I do 20k miles a year so it costs me about £5 a wee difference.
Same difference with my 530i vs 530d, the 335i was more efficient than my 535d, the 3.0tdi A6 was 10% better than my 3.2fsi A6.
I have a C320cdi sport estate at the moment as well as the E350, I like it, I like the shove from low revs, I like diesels.
I just prefer petrols and know cost doesn't come into it, once I realised that I stopped trying to convince myself I liked them as much as petrols.
I tend to agree with the chap above, the only diesel I would genuinely look forward to owning is the FFRR V8 diesel, so well insulated you don't hear it, but the petrol is so much sweeter, it feels like proper luxury in comparison.
p1stonhead said:
jonah35 said:
Fastdruid said:
jonah35 said:
For the majority of men the most aspirational car is a range rover vogue.
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