New 5-series

[stumpage]

Ares said:

RobM77 said:

They've got rid of the iDrive screen moulded into the dash! This new car has what looks like an afterthought from Halfords screwed onto the dash instead. Why do manufacturers do this? I can understand it in a low budget car like a Fiesta or Corsa, but a 5 series?! Even the new DB11's got it. I can understand saving money on a car's build and subsequent maintenance where the customer doesn't notice or it doesn't really matter, but surely this is just shouting 'cheap and nasty' at the owner every time he gets in the car, which is a bit much on what will often be a £40k or even £50k+ car?

Other than that, yes, I like the understated look With the XF and Merc competition (and to a lesser extent the Audi A6) looking so flashy it's nice to have a car in this sector that blends in a bit more.

EU regs. Screens have to be above a certain level, and less integral to comply.

Really....Did someone forget to tell Jaguar, VW, Skoda, Volvo, Alfa Romeo, Kia, Porsche, Rolls, Bentley etc, etc. They all manage to make screens look integrated with the dash and not break any rules.

[Ares]

RobM77 said:

Ares said:

RobM77 said:

They've got rid of the iDrive screen moulded into the dash! This new car has what looks like an afterthought from Halfords screwed onto the dash instead. Why do manufacturers do this? I can understand it in a low budget car like a Fiesta or Corsa, but a 5 series?! Even the new DB11's got it. I can understand saving money on a car's build and subsequent maintenance where the customer doesn't notice or it doesn't really matter, but surely this is just shouting 'cheap and nasty' at the owner every time he gets in the car, which is a bit much on what will often be a £40k or even £50k+ car?

Other than that, yes, I like the understated look With the XF and Merc competition (and to a lesser extent the Audi A6) looking so flashy it's nice to have a car in this sector that blends in a bit more.

EU regs. Screens have to be above a certain level, and less integral to comply.

That's fascinating, thanks. I first saw screens like this on hire Corsas and cars like that. I thought it was a great way to get the functionality into a cheaper (<£15k) car in a modular way as an optional extra. Seeing such a screen in a BMW 5 series, Jag or an Aston though is to me like seeing a Savile Row suit worn with Clarks shoes, it just looks so, so wrong.

Do you know any more info? Surely a screen sticking out of the dash is worse for occupant safety in an accident. What exactly is it about these stick on screens that regulations favour?

Safety. I.E driver being less distracted, having the screen almost in eyesight of the driver, not hidden in a dashboard.

[dxg]

It really is dull. Was watching the AutoExpress video on Youtube and was struggling to work out if it was a facelift or a new module - until they mentioned the 100kg weight saving.

BMW are in desperate need of a new design language, in my opinion. Particularly for their overly-fussy interiors. It's all looking rather dated and rather dull.

[kambites]

Ares said:

EU regs. Screens have to be above a certain level, and less integral to comply.

Which regulation specifically? I can see the practical advantage, but I can't imagine how it could really be legislated given that cars don't have to have such screens at all.

[WestyCarl]

Ares said:

RobM77 said:

Ares said:

RobM77 said:

They've got rid of the iDrive screen moulded into the dash! This new car has what looks like an afterthought from Halfords screwed onto the dash instead. Why do manufacturers do this? I can understand it in a low budget car like a Fiesta or Corsa, but a 5 series?! Even the new DB11's got it. I can understand saving money on a car's build and subsequent maintenance where the customer doesn't notice or it doesn't really matter, but surely this is just shouting 'cheap and nasty' at the owner every time he gets in the car, which is a bit much on what will often be a £40k or even £50k+ car?

Other than that, yes, I like the understated look With the XF and Merc competition (and to a lesser extent the Audi A6) looking so flashy it's nice to have a car in this sector that blends in a bit more.

EU regs. Screens have to be above a certain level, and less integral to comply.

That's fascinating, thanks. I first saw screens like this on hire Corsas and cars like that. I thought it was a great way to get the functionality into a cheaper (<£15k) car in a modular way as an optional extra. Seeing such a screen in a BMW 5 series, Jag or an Aston though is to me like seeing a Savile Row suit worn with Clarks shoes, it just looks so, so wrong.

Do you know any more info? Surely a screen sticking out of the dash is worse for occupant safety in an accident. What exactly is it about these stick on screens that regulations favour?

Safety. I.E driver being less distracted, having the screen almost in eyesight of the driver, not hidden in a dashboard.

I suspect it's more to do with being easier (cheaper) to manufacture that way. If safety was the concern HUD would be mandatory.

[RobM77]

This is a big deal for a lot of people. I have an E90 3 series and my wife and I looked at the latest F30. The second my wife saw the screen she laughed and wouldn't even consider it. Furthermore, I have to admit that even though everyone knows me for only really caring about handling and how a car drives, there are some aesthetic things that just annoy me, and I did actually end up considering an F10 5 series for my next car purely to get the nicely integrated dash. I'm now looking at spending more on my interesting car instead and for my daily just getting a later model E90, and I'd be lying if I said this didn't play a small part! It's a shame to know now that I've got to have the cheapo screen whether I choose a 3 or a 5 series.

It isn't a matter of what other people think of the car (after all, they can't really see inside), it's a matter of what something looks and feels like to use on a daily basis, and if you're spending a lot of money on a car you don't expect to see a plastic screen stuck to the dash. It looks like those fake iPads you can buy for toddlers in Toymaster.

Edited by RobM77 on Thursday 13th October 15:26

[Ares]

kambites said:

Ares said:

EU regs. Screens have to be above a certain level, and less integral to comply.

Which regulation specifically? I can see the practical advantage, but I can't imagine how it could really be legislated given that cars don't have to have such screens at all.

I don't know. I got told first my Audi, then Mercedes. It surrounds visibility and Driver's Line of Sight. It doesn't have to be totally stuck on, but to have it that high up, and integral, makes for a big-ass dash. Fine in an S-Class, less so in a smaller car.

If a car doesn't have a screen, theres nothing to be legislated!

[George111]

Ares said:

George111 said:

Looks just like the old one, which looked the same as the old one, which looked the same . . .

If Volvo can create something distinctive and modern in the S90/V90, hen why not BMW ?

Because Volvo don't have a winning formula and desperately wanted to ditch the poor sales volume, crap car image. They needed to be different. They needed to take a risk.

BMW/Merc/Audi dominate. To risk it (again the other 2) would be commercial suicide. Especially when they all have the 6-series/A7/CLS to do the funky option job.

That said, the new E-Class is so bland and truly indistinguishable from the C-Class that it may work against them.

The 5 series is hardly a winning formula - it's like fish fingers, do you risk buying better fish cakes for the kids or do you stick with Tesco's fish fingers, because that's what they've got used to and know they like ? The safe option isn't always the best.

Same with Mercedes - same reason, but I don't think the BMW will be any different. It's Tesco's fish fingers all round then from BMW, Mercedes and Audi recently.

[Ares]

George111 said:

Ares said:

George111 said:

Looks just like the old one, which looked the same as the old one, which looked the same . . .

If Volvo can create something distinctive and modern in the S90/V90, hen why not BMW ?

Because Volvo don't have a winning formula and desperately wanted to ditch the poor sales volume, crap car image. They needed to be different. They needed to take a risk.

BMW/Merc/Audi dominate. To risk it (again the other 2) would be commercial suicide. Especially when they all have the 6-series/A7/CLS to do the funky option job.

That said, the new E-Class is so bland and truly indistinguishable from the C-Class that it may work against them.

The 5 series is hardly a winning formula - it's like fish fingers, do you risk buying better fish cakes for the kids or do you stick with Tesco's fish fingers, because that's what they've got used to and know they like ? The safe option isn't always the best.

Same with Mercedes - same reason, but I don't think the BMW will be any different. It's Tesco's fish fingers all round then from BMW, Mercedes and Audi recently.

You do talk some ste.

Current 5-series been top of the segment for 6 years. Sold over 2 million. Annual sales up 42% on previous generation? If that's not a winning formula, what is??

And if the 5/A6/E are Fish Fingers, what is a half decent Fillet of Lemon Sole in your eyes?

[bristolracer]

dxg said:

BMW are in desperate need of a new design language, in my opinion. Particularly for their overly-fussy interiors. It's all looking rather dated and rather dull.

wont make any odds they will sell millions of them

[Wills2]

George111 said:

Looks just like the old one, which looked the same as the old one, which looked the same . . .

If Volvo can create something distinctive and modern in the S90/V90, hen why not BMW ?

Autocar placed the S90 5th behind the XF (1st) F10 (2nd) A6 (3rd) new E class (4th) in their recent full road test of the S90...the new 5 series will wipe the floor with the S90.

[George111]

Ares said:

George111 said:

Ares said:

George111 said:

Looks just like the old one, which looked the same as the old one, which looked the same . . .

If Volvo can create something distinctive and modern in the S90/V90, hen why not BMW ?

Because Volvo don't have a winning formula and desperately wanted to ditch the poor sales volume, crap car image. They needed to be different. They needed to take a risk.

BMW/Merc/Audi dominate. To risk it (again the other 2) would be commercial suicide. Especially when they all have the 6-series/A7/CLS to do the funky option job.

That said, the new E-Class is so bland and truly indistinguishable from the C-Class that it may work against them.

The 5 series is hardly a winning formula - it's like fish fingers, do you risk buying better fish cakes for the kids or do you stick with Tesco's fish fingers, because that's what they've got used to and know they like ? The safe option isn't always the best.

Same with Mercedes - same reason, but I don't think the BMW will be any different. It's Tesco's fish fingers all round then from BMW, Mercedes and Audi recently.

You do talk some ste.

Current 5-series been top of the segment for 6 years. Sold over 2 million. Annual sales up 42% on previous generation? If that's not a winning formula, what is??

And if the 5/A6/E are Fish Fingers, what is a half decent Fillet of Lemon Sole in your eyes?

You've no sensible answer for my comment so you revert to vulgarity !

Just because it sells well doesn't make it a good product. The 5 series is the X-Factor of the motoring world . . . the press keep it there because BMW spend a lot on advertising. PH is scattered with comments about modern BMWs being uncomfortable, unreliable and all the same.

I'm not suggesting it's a bad car, it does the job, but the E-Class for example does the same job better, but the E-Class isn't top of the media list because it's not "as sporty" - where sporty means hard, jiggly ride. It's also noisy, something BMW could easily cure but you'd lose 3g of CO2 and push it up into the next company car tax bracket so no good . . . that's not making a good car, that's making a car down to a price that fits a segment.

I'd buy BMW again tomorrow if they made a 5 series as comfortable, quiet and reliable as a Volvo S80/V70 or E-Class but I think I'll be waiting a long time.

[iSore]

Ares said:

Far from. Just highlighting that when a manufacturer does ditch boring/corporate identity, they get slammed for it.

True. They have a winning formula, so.......

A mate of mine is the sales manager for a local Benz emporium and the new E Class is flying out the door.

[Wills2]

There will be an M550i xdrive (not sure if we will get it) 462hp 4.4V8 0-62 4.0 seconds, so the new M5 is going to be a monster.

[iSore]

George111 said:

I'd buy BMW again tomorrow if they made a 5 series as comfortable, quiet and reliable as a Volvo S80/V70 or E-Class but I think I'll be waiting a long time.

To be fair, the Volvo S60 I had earlier this year had an absolutely appalling ride masked partly by very good seats. I've driven a few F10's and found them very comfy, albeit not as good to drive as the previous E60.

[berlintaxi]

George111 said:

Ares said:

George111 said:

Ares said:

George111 said:

Looks just like the old one, which looked the same as the old one, which looked the same . . .

If Volvo can create something distinctive and modern in the S90/V90, hen why not BMW ?

Because Volvo don't have a winning formula and desperately wanted to ditch the poor sales volume, crap car image. They needed to be different. They needed to take a risk.

BMW/Merc/Audi dominate. To risk it (again the other 2) would be commercial suicide. Especially when they all have the 6-series/A7/CLS to do the funky option job.

That said, the new E-Class is so bland and truly indistinguishable from the C-Class that it may work against them.

The 5 series is hardly a winning formula - it's like fish fingers, do you risk buying better fish cakes for the kids or do you stick with Tesco's fish fingers, because that's what they've got used to and know they like ? The safe option isn't always the best.

Same with Mercedes - same reason, but I don't think the BMW will be any different. It's Tesco's fish fingers all round then from BMW, Mercedes and Audi recently.

You do talk some ste.

Current 5-series been top of the segment for 6 years. Sold over 2 million. Annual sales up 42% on previous generation? If that's not a winning formula, what is??

And if the 5/A6/E are Fish Fingers, what is a half decent Fillet of Lemon Sole in your eyes?

You've no sensible answer for my comment so you revert to vulgarity !

Just because it sells well doesn't make it a good product. The 5 series is the X-Factor of the motoring world . . . the press keep it there because BMW spend a lot on advertising. PH is scattered with comments about modern BMWs being uncomfortable, unreliable and all the same.

I'm not suggesting it's a bad car, it does the job, but the E-Class for example does the same job better, but the E-Class isn't top of the media list because it's not "as sporty" - where sporty means hard, jiggly ride. It's also noisy, something BMW could easily cure but you'd lose 3g of CO2 and push it up into the next company car tax bracket so no good . . . that's not making a good car, that's making a car down to a price that fits a segment.

I'd buy BMW again tomorrow if they made a 5 series as comfortable, quiet and reliable as a Volvo S80/V70 or E-Class but I think I'll be waiting a long time.

Congratulations, you have just confirmed Ares opinion was correct.

[Trabi601]

RobM77 said:

This is a big deal for a lot of people. I have an E90 3 series and my wife and I looked at the latest F30. The second my wife saw the screen she laughed and wouldn't even consider it. Furthermore, I have to admit that even though everyone knows me for only really caring about handling and how a car drives, there are some aesthetic things that just annoy me, and I did actually end up considering an F10 5 series for my next car purely to get the nicely integrated dash. I'm now looking at spending more on my interesting car instead and for my daily just getting a later model E90, and I'd be lying if I said this didn't play a small part! It's a shame to know now that I've got to have the cheapo screen whether I choose a 3 or a 5 series.

It isn't a matter of what other people think of the car (after all, they can't really see inside), it's a matter of what something looks and feels like to use on a daily basis, and if you're spending a lot of money on a car you don't expect to see a plastic screen stuck to the dash. It looks like those fake iPads you can buy for toddlers in Toymaster.

If it's like the 7 series screen, it won't look or feel like a stuck on bit of plastic.

This car looks visually like an F10 with F30 nose - but with the interior quality and style of the G11.

I've only been driven in a G11 (BMW had a fleet at Goodwood FOS) - the quality of the interior was outstanding and the screen looked nicely integrated into the dash.

I'm quite pleased this new 5 continues the style of the F10, as mine is only 3 months old... (and I knew the new one was on its way) - I can see me going for the LCI version when mine goes back.

[nickfrog]

berlintaxi said:

Congratulations, you have just confirmed Ares opinion was correct.

Indeed.

Edited by nickfrog on Saturday 15th October 21:55

[RobM77]

George111 said:

Ares said:

George111 said:

Ares said:

George111 said:

Looks just like the old one, which looked the same as the old one, which looked the same . . .

If Volvo can create something distinctive and modern in the S90/V90, hen why not BMW ?

Because Volvo don't have a winning formula and desperately wanted to ditch the poor sales volume, crap car image. They needed to be different. They needed to take a risk.

BMW/Merc/Audi dominate. To risk it (again the other 2) would be commercial suicide. Especially when they all have the 6-series/A7/CLS to do the funky option job.

That said, the new E-Class is so bland and truly indistinguishable from the C-Class that it may work against them.

The 5 series is hardly a winning formula - it's like fish fingers, do you risk buying better fish cakes for the kids or do you stick with Tesco's fish fingers, because that's what they've got used to and know they like ? The safe option isn't always the best.

Same with Mercedes - same reason, but I don't think the BMW will be any different. It's Tesco's fish fingers all round then from BMW, Mercedes and Audi recently.

You do talk some ste.

Current 5-series been top of the segment for 6 years. Sold over 2 million. Annual sales up 42% on previous generation? If that's not a winning formula, what is??

And if the 5/A6/E are Fish Fingers, what is a half decent Fillet of Lemon Sole in your eyes?

You've no sensible answer for my comment so you revert to vulgarity !

Just because it sells well doesn't make it a good product. The 5 series is the X-Factor of the motoring world . . . the press keep it there because BMW spend a lot on advertising. PH is scattered with comments about modern BMWs being uncomfortable, unreliable and all the same.

I'm not suggesting it's a bad car, it does the job, but the E-Class for example does the same job better, but the E-Class isn't top of the media list because it's not "as sporty" - where sporty means hard, jiggly ride. It's also noisy, something BMW could easily cure but you'd lose 3g of CO2 and push it up into the next company car tax bracket so no good . . . that's not making a good car, that's making a car down to a price that fits a segment.

I'd buy BMW again tomorrow if they made a 5 series as comfortable, quiet and reliable as a Volvo S80/V70 or E-Class but I think I'll be waiting a long time.

I've got an Autocar in front of me here that group tests the E Class, XF and 5 series and they say that the 5 series handles much better than the E, but thanks to optional adaptive suspension, it easily matches the E for ride comfort too. Perhaps this depends on spec?

[George111]

RobM77 said:

I've got an Autocar in front of me here that group tests the E Class, XF and 5 series and they say that the 5 series handles much better than the E, but thanks to optional adaptive suspension, it easily matches the E for ride comfort too. Perhaps this depends on spec?

Absolutely, they usually confuse lack of roll in corners with good handling . . . which as you'll know doesn't necessarily compute, at least not on the public road with pot holes, poor quality repairs etc. Run flat tyres also don't help ride quality. Almost every review of the current 5 series said don't have the M-Sport suspension or large wheels because it ruins the ride quality, unless you add adaptive suspension. I found the stock SE ride to still be too harsh on 18" wheels.

The new 5 series has the option of active anti-roll bars which is probably in response to the fact customers want zero roll but don't want to tolerate the harsh ride that usually comes with that. Volvo and Mercedes offer air suspension which gives a smoother ride and less roll so the main manufacturers are addressing the issue of ride comfort as well as providing "sporty" roll-less handling.

Maybe the latest 5, apart from the etch-a-sketch screen, might be the first one to handle well and be genuinely comfortable with active dampers and roll bars ? It's the way forward !