New 5-series

[RobM77]

George111 said:

RobM77 said:

I've got an Autocar in front of me here that group tests the E Class, XF and 5 series and they say that the 5 series handles much better than the E, but thanks to optional adaptive suspension, it easily matches the E for ride comfort too. Perhaps this depends on spec?

Absolutely, they usually confuse lack of roll in corners with good handling . . .

Really?! That's got nothing at all to do with handling. I'd expect better of a magazine such as Autocar.

[Blakewater]

Ares said:

kambites said:

Ares said:

EU regs. Screens have to be above a certain level, and less integral to comply.

Which regulation specifically? I can see the practical advantage, but I can't imagine how it could really be legislated given that cars don't have to have such screens at all.

I don't know. I got told first my Audi, then Mercedes. It surrounds visibility and Driver's Line of Sight. It doesn't have to be totally stuck on, but to have it that high up, and integral, makes for a big-ass dash. Fine in an S-Class, less so in a smaller car.

If a car doesn't have a screen, theres nothing to be legislated!

One of the reasons I prefer my Audi A3 to an A4 is that the screen in the A3 slides away into the dash when the ignition goes off. In an A1 it folds away. In an A4 it's the same screen but just bolted onto the dash, even though the A4 is a newer design. It's like an afterthought and looks like something bought from Halfords and stuck into the car, that may tempt a thief to brake in and attempt to steal, rather than something designed into it. Or penny pinching in an expensive car for the sake of saving on the cost of a little mechanism to hide the screen away.

[RobM77]

Blakewater said:

Ares said:

kambites said:

Ares said:

EU regs. Screens have to be above a certain level, and less integral to comply.

Which regulation specifically? I can see the practical advantage, but I can't imagine how it could really be legislated given that cars don't have to have such screens at all.

I don't know. I got told first my Audi, then Mercedes. It surrounds visibility and Driver's Line of Sight. It doesn't have to be totally stuck on, but to have it that high up, and integral, makes for a big-ass dash. Fine in an S-Class, less so in a smaller car.

If a car doesn't have a screen, theres nothing to be legislated!

One of the reasons I prefer my Audi A3 to an A4 is that the screen in the A3 slides away into the dash when the ignition goes off. In an A1 it folds away. In an A4 it's the same screen but just bolted onto the dash, even though the A4 is a newer design. It's like an afterthought and looks like something bought from Halfords and stuck into the car, that may tempt a thief to brake in and attempt to steal, rather than something designed into it. Or penny pinching in an expensive car for the sake of saving on the cost of a little mechanism to hide the screen away.

I got into a discussion about this on the Evo Facebook page, and someone pointed out that the new E Class and the equivalent Volvo have integrated screens, just like the E90 and F10. Given how new the E Class and Volvo are, surely this can't be legislation?

[sjj84]

I like it, but then I like the f10 & e60 too.

[T16OLE]

George111 said:

Absolutely, they usually confuse lack of roll in corners with good handling . . . which as you'll know doesn't necessarily compute, at least not on the public road with pot holes, poor quality repairs etc. Run flat tyres also don't help ride quality. Almost every review of the current 5 series said don't have the M-Sport suspension or large wheels because it ruins the ride quality, unless you add adaptive suspension. I found the stock SE ride to still be too harsh on 18" wheels.

The new 5 series has the option of active anti-roll bars which is probably in response to the fact customers want zero roll but don't want to tolerate the harsh ride that usually comes with that. Volvo and Mercedes offer air suspension which gives a smoother ride and less roll so the main manufacturers are addressing the issue of ride comfort as well as providing "sporty" roll-less handling.

Maybe the latest 5, apart from the etch-a-sketch screen, might be the first one to handle well and be genuinely comfortable with active dampers and roll bars ? It's the way forward

I have adapative drive, one thing that will make more of an improvement will be ticking that box and opting for the non runflat tyres

[BlackLabel]

Historically when BMW have announced a new 5 series there's been a significant styling change. It's hard to see much of a difference this time though.

[Escy]

I care that little about modern BMW's that I opened the thread saw the pictures and checked the date, I thought the post was a few years old. They are all starting to look the same to me.

[Zod]

BlackLabel said:

Historically when BMW have announced a new 5 series there's been a significant styling change. It's hard to see much of a difference this time though.

You reckon there was a significant change from E12 to E28 or from E34 to E39?

[Wills2]

BlackLabel said:

Historically when BMW have announced a new 5 series there's been a significant styling change. It's hard to see much of a difference this time though.

Not sure if you're being serious? The only outlier there is the e60 take that one away and you can see the evolution not revolution that has been the 5 series design journey.

[Ares]

George111 said:

Ares said:

George111 said:

Ares said:

George111 said:

Looks just like the old one, which looked the same as the old one, which looked the same . . .

If Volvo can create something distinctive and modern in the S90/V90, hen why not BMW ?

Because Volvo don't have a winning formula and desperately wanted to ditch the poor sales volume, crap car image. They needed to be different. They needed to take a risk.

BMW/Merc/Audi dominate. To risk it (again the other 2) would be commercial suicide. Especially when they all have the 6-series/A7/CLS to do the funky option job.

That said, the new E-Class is so bland and truly indistinguishable from the C-Class that it may work against them.

The 5 series is hardly a winning formula - it's like fish fingers, do you risk buying better fish cakes for the kids or do you stick with Tesco's fish fingers, because that's what they've got used to and know they like ? The safe option isn't always the best.

Same with Mercedes - same reason, but I don't think the BMW will be any different. It's Tesco's fish fingers all round then from BMW, Mercedes and Audi recently.

You do talk some ste.

Current 5-series been top of the segment for 6 years. Sold over 2 million. Annual sales up 42% on previous generation? If that's not a winning formula, what is??

And if the 5/A6/E are Fish Fingers, what is a half decent Fillet of Lemon Sole in your eyes?

You've no sensible answer for my comment so you revert to vulgarity !

Just because it sells well doesn't make it a good product. The 5 series is the X-Factor of the motoring world . . . the press keep it there because BMW spend a lot on advertising. PH is scattered with comments about modern BMWs being uncomfortable, unreliable and all the same.

I'm not suggesting it's a bad car, it does the job, but the E-Class for example does the same job better, but the E-Class isn't top of the media list because it's not "as sporty" - where sporty means hard, jiggly ride. It's also noisy, something BMW could easily cure but you'd lose 3g of CO2 and push it up into the next company car tax bracket so no good . . . that's not making a good car, that's making a car down to a price that fits a segment.

I'd buy BMW again tomorrow if they made a 5 series as comfortable, quiet and reliable as a Volvo S80/V70 or E-Class but I think I'll be waiting a long time.

No response to fact, so just ignore it and complain about a vulgarity

I gave you a sensible answer, I just said you were talking st. What is a winning formula if not making the perennial best seller? Nothing to do with magazines.

You think the E-Class does the job better, more people disagree, hence why it doesn't sell as well. I personally find both the E-Class and Volvo dull. Poor handling, minimal feel and just posh sofas on wheels designed to cosset you away from what is going on on the road. Old and soft people rate comfort and minimal feel. The rest of us actually WANT to feel what is going on through the wheels and WANT sporty suspension.

As for quiet...?? Have you heard a modern Merc or Volvo diesel?

[Ares]

berlintaxi said:

George111 said:

Ares said:

George111 said:

Ares said:

George111 said:

Looks just like the old one, which looked the same as the old one, which looked the same . . .

If Volvo can create something distinctive and modern in the S90/V90, hen why not BMW ?

Because Volvo don't have a winning formula and desperately wanted to ditch the poor sales volume, crap car image. They needed to be different. They needed to take a risk.

BMW/Merc/Audi dominate. To risk it (again the other 2) would be commercial suicide. Especially when they all have the 6-series/A7/CLS to do the funky option job.

That said, the new E-Class is so bland and truly indistinguishable from the C-Class that it may work against them.

The 5 series is hardly a winning formula - it's like fish fingers, do you risk buying better fish cakes for the kids or do you stick with Tesco's fish fingers, because that's what they've got used to and know they like ? The safe option isn't always the best.

Same with Mercedes - same reason, but I don't think the BMW will be any different. It's Tesco's fish fingers all round then from BMW, Mercedes and Audi recently.

You do talk some ste.

Current 5-series been top of the segment for 6 years. Sold over 2 million. Annual sales up 42% on previous generation? If that's not a winning formula, what is??

And if the 5/A6/E are Fish Fingers, what is a half decent Fillet of Lemon Sole in your eyes?

You've no sensible answer for my comment so you revert to vulgarity !

Just because it sells well doesn't make it a good product. The 5 series is the X-Factor of the motoring world . . . the press keep it there because BMW spend a lot on advertising. PH is scattered with comments about modern BMWs being uncomfortable, unreliable and all the same.

I'm not suggesting it's a bad car, it does the job, but the E-Class for example does the same job better, but the E-Class isn't top of the media list because it's not "as sporty" - where sporty means hard, jiggly ride. It's also noisy, something BMW could easily cure but you'd lose 3g of CO2 and push it up into the next company car tax bracket so no good . . . that's not making a good car, that's making a car down to a price that fits a segment.

I'd buy BMW again tomorrow if they made a 5 series as comfortable, quiet and reliable as a Volvo S80/V70 or E-Class but I think I'll be waiting a long time.

Congratulations, you have just confirmed Ares opinion was correct.

<snigger>

[Ares]

George111 said:

RobM77 said:

I've got an Autocar in front of me here that group tests the E Class, XF and 5 series and they say that the 5 series handles much better than the E, but thanks to optional adaptive suspension, it easily matches the E for ride comfort too. Perhaps this depends on spec?

Absolutely, they usually confuse lack of roll in corners with good handling . . . which as you'll know doesn't necessarily compute, at least not on the public road with pot holes, poor quality repairs etc. Run flat tyres also don't help ride quality. Almost every review of the current 5 series said don't have the M-Sport suspension or large wheels because it ruins the ride quality, unless you add adaptive suspension. I found the stock SE ride to still be too harsh on 18" wheels.

The new 5 series has the option of active anti-roll bars which is probably in response to the fact customers want zero roll but don't want to tolerate the harsh ride that usually comes with that. Volvo and Mercedes offer air suspension which gives a smoother ride and less roll so the main manufacturers are addressing the issue of ride comfort as well as providing "sporty" roll-less handling.

Maybe the latest 5, apart from the etch-a-sketch screen, might be the first one to handle well and be genuinely comfortable with active dampers and roll bars ? It's the way forward !

Hang on....you slagged the press off because they were wrong for supporting the BMW 5 mins, but they are right when they criticise them (which 'almost every review does, apparently?)

Face it, you just don't like BMWs and will use any argument to try and rationales an irrational opinion.

[r129sl]

BlackLabel said:

Historically when BMW have announced a new 5 series there's been a significant styling change. It's hard to see much of a difference this time though.

It started out so well but just look at the big fat wreck it has become.

Still, it's a heck of a lot nicer than the w213 E-Class.

[kambites]

Blakewater said:

One of the reasons I prefer my Audi A3 to an A4 is that the screen in the A3 slides away into the dash when the ignition goes off.

Our of interest, how much time do you spend staring at your dashboard with the ignition off?

[iSore]

r129sl said:

It started out so well but just look at the big fat wreck it has become.

Still, it's a heck of a lot nicer than the w213 E-Class.

I've no idea how the new E Class drives, but the outgoing one was a very pleasant car indeed and hard to fault. A bit like the F10 5 Series really. I doubt there is much to choose between either tbh.

For me, the E34 was the best 5 Series - there was nothing to touch it at the time and certainly not a W124 Merc. The 535i Sport was a lovely thing and I bet a really 'tight' and up together example is a nice car to drive in 2016.

[DegsyE39]

r129sl said:

BlackLabel said:

Historically when BMW have announced a new 5 series there's been a significant styling change. It's hard to see much of a difference this time though.

It started out so well but just look at the big fat wreck it has become.

Still, it's a heck of a lot nicer than the w213 E-Class.

+1 F10 started the rot by being a little bland, The new five is just gopping, What went wrong munich?

[silent ninja]

RobM77 said:

George111 said:

RobM77 said:

I've got an Autocar in front of me here that group tests the E Class, XF and 5 series and they say that the 5 series handles much better than the E, but thanks to optional adaptive suspension, it easily matches the E for ride comfort too. Perhaps this depends on spec?

Absolutely, they usually confuse lack of roll in corners with good handling . . .

Really?! That's got nothing at all to do with handling. I'd expect better of a magazine such as Autocar.

Did they say the XF is the best handling? Because I'd be surprised if it wasn't. I drove one for two days and it's better than the equivalent German's for sure. They've done something special with the suspension, making the car feel very agile and light (even though it's not a light car).

[SWoll]

silent ninja said:

RobM77 said:

George111 said:

RobM77 said:

I've got an Autocar in front of me here that group tests the E Class, XF and 5 series and they say that the 5 series handles much better than the E, but thanks to optional adaptive suspension, it easily matches the E for ride comfort too. Perhaps this depends on spec?

Absolutely, they usually confuse lack of roll in corners with good handling . . .

Really?! That's got nothing at all to do with handling. I'd expect better of a magazine such as Autocar.

Did they say the XF is the best handling? Because I'd be surprised if it wasn't. I drove one for two days and it's better than the equivalent German's for sure. They've done something special with the suspension, making the car feel very agile and light (even though it's not a light car).

Certainly rides/handles beautifully for such a big car but you do have to put up with a lot more rattles, some questionable materials and average build quality. Standard spec on them is quite poor also.

I had one on order as a new CC up until a week ago, but after having finally had an extended weekend test drive decided to cancel it. Nice car, but not sure I could live with it for 3-4 years based on my feeligs after 2 days.

[RobM77]

silent ninja said:

RobM77 said:

George111 said:

RobM77 said:

I've got an Autocar in front of me here that group tests the E Class, XF and 5 series and they say that the 5 series handles much better than the E, but thanks to optional adaptive suspension, it easily matches the E for ride comfort too. Perhaps this depends on spec?

Absolutely, they usually confuse lack of roll in corners with good handling . . .

Really?! That's got nothing at all to do with handling. I'd expect better of a magazine such as Autocar.

Did they say the XF is the best handling? Because I'd be surprised if it wasn't. I drove one for two days and it's better than the equivalent German's for sure. They've done something special with the suspension, making the car feel very agile and light (even though it's not a light car).

I'm at work now and the magazine's at home, but yes, I think the XF very narrowly pipped the 5 series by virtue of the way it drove, yes. With Autocar you have to account for their very heavy Jag bias though! From reading the text it seemed liked it was give and take between the 5 and XF throughout. I suspect it's a matter of taste, which is something they also said. I thought the E Class sounded superb for a certain type of buyer too.

[WestyCarl]

Last year I went through the choosing A6, BMW 5, Jag, E conundrum.

The conclusion: there's bugger all difference between them and it comes down to small personnel preferences.