RE: New BMW 5 Series - full details

[DegsyE39]

Looks wk. Gopping front end.

[HighwayStar]

biffy98 said:

I am concerned that the electronics in these will be so complex that the car will be scrapped after the warrany runs out

Seriously...? Does that go for the electronics in Mercs, Porsche, Lexus and a host of lower end cars running similar tech?
At anytime you car to think of there have been cars at the cutting edge. Plenty of folk say I won't be getting one of those, that'll go wrong blah blah... progress carries relentlessly and the tech is incredibly reliable.... maybe not the Tesla Autopilot thing but I don't think many here would want that... I've hit my 50's, I'm not someone whose going to want or feel comfortable giving up control to satalites and computers, letting the 'drive.' The younger generation tend to adopt such new things quickly, and those who have no interesting the fun driving.

[underphil]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

But how do you know if you've done 820 miles??

[Bladedancer]

Crusoe said:

Bladedancer said:

70 mpg? Suuure.
Why not make it a nice round number like 100? Just as realistic.

At this rate diesels will be just filled in once at the factory and never refilled :P

Had over 80mpg actual in my 320ed on my 80 mile commute, would expect the new one to be even better.

Looking at reviews, long time tests and threads on forums (here and owners clubs), this sort of mpg is possible in very specific circumstances. Most people report mid 50s.
Also, yours in ed version and regular d is less efficient.
Plus this 5 series is heavier so it won't get better economy and the 2.0 liter diesels are most likely the same engines you get in current 3 series.

Heck, if I wanted to I could claim the E92 330i I had a while ago would do 50mpg. Because it would. On an Mway. Driving steady at 50 to 60 mph.

[Bladedancer]

HighwayStar said:

biffy98 said:

I am concerned that the electronics in these will be so complex that the car will be scrapped after the warrany runs out

Seriously...? Does that go for the electronics in Mercs, Porsche, Lexus and a host of lower end cars running similar tech?
At anytime you car to think of there have been cars at the cutting edge. Plenty of folk say I won't be getting one of those, that'll go wrong blah blah... progress carries relentlessly and the tech is incredibly reliable.... maybe not the Tesla Autopilot thing but I don't think many here would want that... I've hit my 50's, I'm not someone whose going to want or feel comfortable giving up control to satalites and computers, letting the 'drive.' The younger generation tend to adopt such new things quickly, and those who have no interesting the fun driving.

Except the really complicated cars aren't old enough for anyone to say the tech really *is* reliable. That's the problem.
In 10 or 15 years we'll see how reliable the new super complicated cars are.

We've already seen that the new tech causes enormous problems that are very expensive to fix - just look at direct injection fuel injectors and HPFPs and cost of changing those.
And now you have triple turbo engines, electric turbos, who-knows how many computers.
Now to mention first version of any tech is bound to be immature (1st gen DSG gearbox anyone?)

Progress only makes sense if it makes things better. Putting whole host of computers in a car may make it better but it also means there are more things to go wrong.
In ages past, no one would bat an eyelash when a diesel got to half a million kms without any issues. Today it's a success if something expensive doesn't need changing before the car does half that. If that's progress I'm not sure I welcome it.

Edited by Bladedancer on Wednesday 19th October 08:53

[Triumph Man]

Pumpsmynads said:

E65Ross said:

blademansw said:

pits said:

It was like reading a tragedy
530i is a 4 cylinder turbo and the base model near enough

I shed a tear. The only reason to buy a 530i was that sublime straight six. I still miss the 6 pot from my old 528i E39 which incidentally was in SE trim but had M-tec III suspension so you had the best of both worlds, better handling, but the ride was improved due to the non low-profile tyres.

Whilst not naturally aspirated, BMW do still do a straight 6, you know? they also offer a V8 still. I don't see what the fuss is about? Or is it literally just your sentimental about a few numbers? If so, as I mentioned earlier, you wouldn't have liked the E23 745i, which was....only a 3.2 litre straight 6, and not a 4.4 V8 that the later 745i was.

Just out of curiosity, what do you find upsetting about the 530i being a 4 cylinder engine? If you want a 6 cylinder engine they still offer that, so I'm not sure why you'd get upset about it?

Just wondering really

"Shed a tear?" Really?

If it was called the 525i or 528i that'd be ok would it? Buy the 540i if you want the six.

But that should be a V8!!! waaahhhhh!!!!
But seriously, it used to be nice to be able to have 6 cylinders without having to have the top of the range.

[E65Ross]

Triumph Man said:

Pumpsmynads said:

E65Ross said:

blademansw said:

pits said:

It was like reading a tragedy
530i is a 4 cylinder turbo and the base model near enough

I shed a tear. The only reason to buy a 530i was that sublime straight six. I still miss the 6 pot from my old 528i E39 which incidentally was in SE trim but had M-tec III suspension so you had the best of both worlds, better handling, but the ride was improved due to the non low-profile tyres.

Whilst not naturally aspirated, BMW do still do a straight 6, you know? they also offer a V8 still. I don't see what the fuss is about? Or is it literally just your sentimental about a few numbers? If so, as I mentioned earlier, you wouldn't have liked the E23 745i, which was....only a 3.2 litre straight 6, and not a 4.4 V8 that the later 745i was.

Just out of curiosity, what do you find upsetting about the 530i being a 4 cylinder engine? If you want a 6 cylinder engine they still offer that, so I'm not sure why you'd get upset about it?

Just wondering really

"Shed a tear?" Really?

If it was called the 525i or 528i that'd be ok would it? Buy the 540i if you want the six.

But that should be a V8!!! waaahhhhh!!!!
But seriously, it used to be nice to be able to have 6 cylinders without having to have the top of the range.

You can still have 6 cylinders without having the top of the range. Above it are the 550i V8, or the M5 above that.

[Triumph Man]

E65Ross said:

Triumph Man said:

Pumpsmynads said:

E65Ross said:

blademansw said:

pits said:

It was like reading a tragedy
530i is a 4 cylinder turbo and the base model near enough

I shed a tear. The only reason to buy a 530i was that sublime straight six. I still miss the 6 pot from my old 528i E39 which incidentally was in SE trim but had M-tec III suspension so you had the best of both worlds, better handling, but the ride was improved due to the non low-profile tyres.

Whilst not naturally aspirated, BMW do still do a straight 6, you know? they also offer a V8 still. I don't see what the fuss is about? Or is it literally just your sentimental about a few numbers? If so, as I mentioned earlier, you wouldn't have liked the E23 745i, which was....only a 3.2 litre straight 6, and not a 4.4 V8 that the later 745i was.

Just out of curiosity, what do you find upsetting about the 530i being a 4 cylinder engine? If you want a 6 cylinder engine they still offer that, so I'm not sure why you'd get upset about it?

Just wondering really

"Shed a tear?" Really?

If it was called the 525i or 528i that'd be ok would it? Buy the 540i if you want the six.

But that should be a V8!!! waaahhhhh!!!!
But seriously, it used to be nice to be able to have 6 cylinders without having to have the top of the range.

You can still have 6 cylinders without having the top of the range. Above it are the 550i V8, or the M5 above that.

Sorry, should have been clearer, it was nice when the not so much top of the range but nearer the bottom of the range-middle of the range were 6 cylinder. Even with the F10 you could have a 523i 6 cylinder (ok it was a 3 litre but still)

[E65Ross]

Triumph Man said:

E65Ross said:

Triumph Man said:

Pumpsmynads said:

E65Ross said:

blademansw said:

pits said:

It was like reading a tragedy
530i is a 4 cylinder turbo and the base model near enough

I shed a tear. The only reason to buy a 530i was that sublime straight six. I still miss the 6 pot from my old 528i E39 which incidentally was in SE trim but had M-tec III suspension so you had the best of both worlds, better handling, but the ride was improved due to the non low-profile tyres.

Whilst not naturally aspirated, BMW do still do a straight 6, you know? they also offer a V8 still. I don't see what the fuss is about? Or is it literally just your sentimental about a few numbers? If so, as I mentioned earlier, you wouldn't have liked the E23 745i, which was....only a 3.2 litre straight 6, and not a 4.4 V8 that the later 745i was.

Just out of curiosity, what do you find upsetting about the 530i being a 4 cylinder engine? If you want a 6 cylinder engine they still offer that, so I'm not sure why you'd get upset about it?

Just wondering really

"Shed a tear?" Really?

If it was called the 525i or 528i that'd be ok would it? Buy the 540i if you want the six.

But that should be a V8!!! waaahhhhh!!!!
But seriously, it used to be nice to be able to have 6 cylinders without having to have the top of the range.

You can still have 6 cylinders without having the top of the range. Above it are the 550i V8, or the M5 above that.

Sorry, should have been clearer, it was nice when the not so much top of the range but nearer the bottom of the range-middle of the range were 6 cylinder. Even with the F10 you could have a 523i 6 cylinder (ok it was a 3 litre but still)

Riiiiiight.

Is that just for BMWs, or does that also include Audi, Mercedes, Porsche etc etc as well?

[blademansw]

E65Ross said:

Whilst not naturally aspirated, BMW do still do a straight 6, you know? they also offer a V8 still. I don't see what the fuss is about? Or is it literally just your sentimental about a few numbers? If so, as I mentioned earlier, you wouldn't have liked the E23 745i, which was....only a 3.2 litre straight 6, and not a 4.4 V8 that the later 745i was.

Just out of curiosity, what do you find upsetting about the 530i being a 4 cylinder engine? If you want a 6 cylinder engine they still offer that, so I'm not sure why you'd get upset about it?

Just wondering really

Sorry for the delay in replying. I forgot to check back due to PH not doing email notifications lol.

Its mainly due to that visceral sound experience of the 3l (or 2.8) straight six NA engine on full song that no four pot no matter how many turbos will ever replace. I am sure the four cylinder will be a great engine but will it wont be the silky smooth six.

Right, I'm off to sulk and cry in my twin turbo four cylinder tar burner now ;-)

[AreOut]

claimed consumption figures are insane, those were realistic when E39 came out and with every generation they just lie more and more, in reality this iteration will consume some ~20% less than its E39 counterpart but they claim it's literally 40-50% less which is ridiculous

technology advances and there is direct injection and more efficient transmission but they certainly can't double the fuel efficiency

[philmots]

Triumph Man said:

E65Ross said:

Triumph Man said:

Pumpsmynads said:

E65Ross said:

blademansw said:

pits said:

It was like reading a tragedy
530i is a 4 cylinder turbo and the base model near enough

I shed a tear. The only reason to buy a 530i was that sublime straight six. I still miss the 6 pot from my old 528i E39 which incidentally was in SE trim but had M-tec III suspension so you had the best of both worlds, better handling, but the ride was improved due to the non low-profile tyres.

Whilst not naturally aspirated, BMW do still do a straight 6, you know? they also offer a V8 still. I don't see what the fuss is about? Or is it literally just your sentimental about a few numbers? If so, as I mentioned earlier, you wouldn't have liked the E23 745i, which was....only a 3.2 litre straight 6, and not a 4.4 V8 that the later 745i was.

Just out of curiosity, what do you find upsetting about the 530i being a 4 cylinder engine? If you want a 6 cylinder engine they still offer that, so I'm not sure why you'd get upset about it?

Just wondering really

"Shed a tear?" Really?

If it was called the 525i or 528i that'd be ok would it? Buy the 540i if you want the six.

But that should be a V8!!! waaahhhhh!!!!
But seriously, it used to be nice to be able to have 6 cylinders without having to have the top of the range.

You can still have 6 cylinders without having the top of the range. Above it are the 550i V8, or the M5 above that.

Sorry, should have been clearer, it was nice when the not so much top of the range but nearer the bottom of the range-middle of the range were 6 cylinder. Even with the F10 you could have a 523i 6 cylinder (ok it was a 3 litre but still)

Times change... Downsizing is nothing new, and it seems perfectly acceptable until a new BMW is released and the same broken record starts playing regarding lack of cylinders or model numbers not matching capacity.

Just zzzzzzzzZZZZzzzz

[Ares]

HighwayStar said:

biffy98 said:

I am concerned that the electronics in these will be so complex that the car will be scrapped after the warrany runs out

Seriously...? Does that go for the electronics in Mercs, Porsche, Lexus and a host of lower end cars running similar tech?
At anytime you car to think of there have been cars at the cutting edge. Plenty of folk say I won't be getting one of those, that'll go wrong blah blah... progress carries relentlessly and the tech is incredibly reliable.... maybe not the Tesla Autopilot thing but I don't think many here would want that... I've hit my 50's, I'm not someone whose going to want or feel comfortable giving up control to satalites and computers, letting the 'drive.' The younger generation tend to adopt such new things quickly, and those who have no interesting the fun driving.

Exactly. People have been bhing about the risk of higher tech/electronis cars since the E34, so much tech that only BMW would be able to service it. 22yrs on and it's hardly a problem. The non-manufacturer dealer has just adapted.

[Ares]

Bladedancer said:

Except the really complicated cars aren't old enough for anyone to say the tech really *is* reliable. That's the problem.
In 10 or 15 years we'll see how reliable the new super complicated cars are.

We've already seen that the new tech causes enormous problems that are very expensive to fix - just look at direct injection fuel injectors and HPFPs and cost of changing those.
And now you have triple turbo engines, electric turbos, who-knows how many computers.
Now to mention first version of any tech is bound to be immature (1st gen DSG gearbox anyone?)

Progress only makes sense if it makes things better. Putting whole host of computers in a car may make it better but it also means there are more things to go wrong.
In ages past, no one would bat an eyelash when a diesel got to half a million kms without any issues. Today it's a success if something expensive doesn't need changing before the car does half that. If that's progress I'm not sure I welcome it.

Edited by Bladedancer on Wednesday 19th October 08:53

"Super complicated" today will be stone-age and the stuff of kindergarten in 15yrs!

[Triumph Man]

E65Ross said:

Triumph Man said:

E65Ross said:

Triumph Man said:

Pumpsmynads said:

E65Ross said:

blademansw said:

pits said:

It was like reading a tragedy
530i is a 4 cylinder turbo and the base model near enough

I shed a tear. The only reason to buy a 530i was that sublime straight six. I still miss the 6 pot from my old 528i E39 which incidentally was in SE trim but had M-tec III suspension so you had the best of both worlds, better handling, but the ride was improved due to the non low-profile tyres.

Whilst not naturally aspirated, BMW do still do a straight 6, you know? they also offer a V8 still. I don't see what the fuss is about? Or is it literally just your sentimental about a few numbers? If so, as I mentioned earlier, you wouldn't have liked the E23 745i, which was....only a 3.2 litre straight 6, and not a 4.4 V8 that the later 745i was.

Just out of curiosity, what do you find upsetting about the 530i being a 4 cylinder engine? If you want a 6 cylinder engine they still offer that, so I'm not sure why you'd get upset about it?

Just wondering really

"Shed a tear?" Really?

If it was called the 525i or 528i that'd be ok would it? Buy the 540i if you want the six.

But that should be a V8!!! waaahhhhh!!!!
But seriously, it used to be nice to be able to have 6 cylinders without having to have the top of the range.

You can still have 6 cylinders without having the top of the range. Above it are the 550i V8, or the M5 above that.

Sorry, should have been clearer, it was nice when the not so much top of the range but nearer the bottom of the range-middle of the range were 6 cylinder. Even with the F10 you could have a 523i 6 cylinder (ok it was a 3 litre but still)

Riiiiiight.

Is that just for BMWs, or does that also include Audi, Mercedes, Porsche etc etc as well?

Not withstanding your apparent vitriol to my opinion, yes, that also applies to them. In a few years I'll probably be buying one of these as a used car, and it would be nice to not have to stretch to a 540i to get 6 cylinders. People have different things that they look for in a car, to me I like the sounds of things/engines etc. I would rather have a 6 cylinder than a 4 cylinder engine where possible (there are a few exceptions though).

[E65Ross]

blademansw said:

Sorry for the delay in replying. I forgot to check back due to PH not doing email notifications lol.

Its mainly due to that visceral sound experience of the 3l (or 2.8) straight six NA engine on full song that no four pot no matter how many turbos will ever replace. I am sure the four cylinder will be a great engine but will it wont be the silky smooth six.

Right, I'm off to sulk and cry in my twin turbo four cylinder tar burner now ;-)

But didn't you say you shed a tear because the 530i was a 4 cylinder? Not because you can't buy a 6 cylinder. And for reference, the x40i engine at full chat sounds every bit as good as an E39 530i ever did.

[Bladedancer]

Ares said:

"Super complicated" today will be stone-age and the stuff of kindergarten in 15yrs!

Yeah and cars will probably be disposable items that will be so complicated that it won't be economical to repair them. Much like electronics today.

[Ares]

Bladedancer said:

Ares said:

"Super complicated" today will be stone-age and the stuff of kindergarten in 15yrs!

Yeah and cars will probably be disposable items that will be so complicated that it won't be economical to repair them. Much like electronics today.

Thats what they said 25yrs ago.....

[Bladedancer]

Ares said:

Bladedancer said:

Ares said:

"Super complicated" today will be stone-age and the stuff of kindergarten in 15yrs!

Yeah and cars will probably be disposable items that will be so complicated that it won't be economical to repair them. Much like electronics today.

Thats what they said 25yrs ago.....

And while it hasn't quite happened yet, you can certainly see this looming on the horizon.
As an exercise, take, say, a 10 year old 3 liter diesel powered German exec that needs a set of injectors, turbo refurbed/replaced and DPF replaced.

[kambites]

There's always been components whose failure will write off a ten year-old mainstream car. The question really is whether they will be prone to fail or not.