RE: Yamaha's new YZF-R6 and BMW's future vision: PH2

[RemyMartin]

SevenR said:

190Kg dry????? I thought bikes were getting lighter? My 1997 ZX7R was 200odd Kgs ffs!
17000 rpm redline sounds like a good laugh.
What bike rider would want the bike to have control over where you go on the road? Seems really daft to me.

Article says 190kg wet.

I refute 200kgs dry for a zx7r they are about 1.5 tonnes dry. fking lard arse of a bike.

[Talksteer]

RobM77 said:

No sign of those pesky EU regs that ruined car engines affecting bike engines!

They are covered by EU regs that are simply behind those for cars, bikes are on EU4 cars are on EU6. Hence 2016 bikes have huge ugly exhausts and less power than the previous year bikes all things being equal.

What makes car engines worse isn't the EU regs as such but the fleet efficiency rules, these are unlikely to be applied to bikes anytime soon.

[RobM77]

Talksteer said:

RobM77 said:

No sign of those pesky EU regs that ruined car engines affecting bike engines!

They are covered by EU regs that are simply behind those for cars, bikes are on EU4 cars are on EU6. Hence 2016 bikes have huge ugly exhausts and less power than the previous year bikes all things being equal.

What makes car engines worse isn't the EU regs as such but the fleet efficiency rules, these are unlikely to be applied to bikes anytime soon.

Thanks. I made the comment in jest, but I'm genuinely interested as to why bikes are allowed gorgeous high revving screamers, but cars like the E92 M3 and Civic Type R with high revving engines are things of the past. It's the biggest single factor that turns me off modern cars - the hushed woofle of their low revving turbocharged engines does nothing for me (and likewise, I'd rather stand and listen to Moto GP than F1, even putting the better racing in MGP to one side!).

Just to clarify from your post, when bikes hit EU6, will they still be allowed to rev to 10-15k and beyond? Are you saying that it's actually fleet efficiency rules that have killed off the VTEC screamers in cars, rather than the EU regs? I'm just curious - I know virtually nothing about regulations like these.

[Talksteer]

RobM77 said:

Talksteer said:

RobM77 said:

No sign of those pesky EU regs that ruined car engines affecting bike engines!

They are covered by EU regs that are simply behind those for cars, bikes are on EU4 cars are on EU6. Hence 2016 bikes have huge ugly exhausts and less power than the previous year bikes all things being equal.

What makes car engines worse isn't the EU regs as such but the fleet efficiency rules, these are unlikely to be applied to bikes anytime soon.

Thanks. I made the comment in jest, but I'm genuinely interested as to why bikes are allowed gorgeous high revving screamers, but cars like the E92 M3 and Civic Type R with high revving engines are things of the past. It's the biggest single factor that turns me off modern cars - the hushed woofle of their low revving turbocharged engines does nothing for me (and likewise, I'd rather stand and listen to Moto GP than F1, even putting the better racing in MGP to one side!).

Just to clarify from your post, when bikes hit EU6, will they still be allowed to rev to 10-15k and beyond? Are you saying that it's actually fleet efficiency rules that have killed off the VTEC screamers in cars, rather than the EU regs? I'm just curious - I know virtually nothing about regulations like these.

Bikes generate such high specific outputs because they have engines tuned for top end power. Big valves, over square, big valve overlap.

On a car you need variable valve systems to allow remotely decent fuel economy, noise, vibration and harshness and drivability at low RPM.

These factors are either not a concern on bikes or like low speed drivability simply gotten around on bikes due to their low weight and high power to weight.

It's the economy regulations that killed off the high specific output NA engines, that and the fact that turbos are a better engineering solution.

The fact that car manufacturers have managed to get 130bhp/l out of NA engines means that I expect bikes will be able to maintain current outputs when they have to hit EU6.

They generally just get a few years longer than cars to deal with the new regs as ultimately they have a faction of the budget a fraction of the space and are causing a fraction of the problems.