Lancia S4 0-100mph time 6.1seconds..

[Crafty_]

Welshbeef said:

It's a shame we don't still have a derestrocted category of racing

Like Group B
Like Can Am


Pushing technology to he limit would drastically improve the flow of latest tech to the road cars.



I've seen a few Group B cars driving in what if deep full on atttack and boy were they quick, WRC well doesn't even compete.

Not sure about now, but maybe 10 years ago WRC cars were as quick, if not quicker than Group B in terms of times. Less powerful, less dramatic, easier to drive? certainly. 3 years of chassis improvement probably being the main reason. A group B car was a blunt weapon and from what I read quite flawed - S1 virtually had the engine between the headlights, the T16 wanted to headbutt the ground over every jump. Understeer, laggy boost, narrow torque/power bands all meant the cars were extremely hard work to drive fast, whilst a WRC car requires a bit more effort than pooping downt o Tesco the cars are easier to drive and better suited to the job in hand, years of chassis development, much more refined/usable engines etc.

In some ways its a bit like F1, an 80s turbo F1 car is probably going to be more spectacular - four wheel drifts, oversteer and so on, but it will be a country mile behind a modern one, in part because engineers have figured out how to make the cars more usable. There is no point having 450hp that you can't fully exploit through the forests, better to have 300hp that can be fully exploited for longer periods.

As awesome as Group B cars are and how outrageous there were in their time things have moved on. Now, if you could have Group B power from a modern WRC car we really would see something impressive. Alas, rallying seems to have diminished in stature nowadays, TV coverage is poor and the great unwashed are more interested in other things.

[Leins]

Welshbeef said:

The S4 LANCIA was the most extreme /ultimate GroupB ever made. You have to wonder what the competition we're planning/designing to beat the challenge the S4. Actually there must be some info on this

How far could Group B have gone? Power to weight into the 700bhp/tonne/more? Cryogenic injection electric Turbo chargers hugely increasing max rpm

Group S

[RobM77]

Welshbeef said:

Pommygranite said:

Welshbeef said:

0-62mph 2.9 seconds
0-125mph 10.2 seconds
0-100mph 6.1 seconds

Clearly exceptionally quick and only 450bhp.

This is a car which came out in first incarnation 10 YEARS before the McLaren F1 and destroyed it in any meaningful acceleration time.

When you say 'destroyed' define destroyed.

0.3 secs to 60 and 0.2 to 100 is not 'destroyed'

I believe the phrase should be "owned"

And the 0-62mph "he's pullin"

It was a competition car! The 917-30 from 20 years before the McLaren F1 would obliterate both of them (0-100 in under 4 secs and 240mph top speed), as would a 1970s or 1980s F1 car. With racing cars using slick tyres you just get so much more traction; even my 200bhp racing car gets from 0-100mph in under 5 seconds. Road cars operate under different rules.

[SteveSteveson]

Welshbeef said:

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/land-rove...

503bhp for the RRS not sure which your thinking about - dagadagadagadaha possibly

The Range Rover Sport, because that's the car you mentioned. Which is not the same as the RR V8 Supercharged.

So what your now saying is a 503 Bhp car with a drag coefficient of 0.34 has a top speed of 155mph proves that a car with a drag coefficient of at least 0.41 and 450bhp can have a top speed of 185mph?

[JONSCZ]

I have it on 'reasonably good authority' that Lancia 'might have' sealed the roll cage in the S4 and filled it with Nitrous to inject into the engine.... .. . Allegedly

[F1GTRUeno]

Surely we've learnt now just to ignore Welshbeef and anything/everything he posts?

(I'm aware I'm not ignoring by posting in the thread).

[truck71]

The ECV is one of the greatest automotive creations- so much more than a modern whateveraru. The triflux engine is genius, shame it didn't ever compete. All of the cars in the CH vid are mega, the 037 looks awesome- great driver too, CH looks genuinely scared.

[Welshbeef]

JONSCZ said:

I have it on 'reasonably good authority' that Lancia 'might have' sealed the roll cage in the S4 and filled it with Nitrous to inject into the engine.... .. . Allegedly

Genius .


c600bhp/tonne not adequate take a good hit of Nitro amfor added holy st I'm scared this is too fast fun.

[Welshbeef]

F1GTRUeno said:

Surely we've learnt now just to ignore Welshbeef and anything/everything he posts?

(I'm aware I'm not ignoring by posting in the thread).

At least I post up genuinely interesting threads a few B/S ones but at least the vast majority are totally away from the standard what car we only ever see. We've never had a thread discussing the S4 and there have been some very enlightening posts with info about a topic which usually only goes into we miss a Group B.

[Gary C]

Welshbeef said:

I've seen a few Group B cars driving in what if deep full on atttack and boy were they quick, WRC well doesn't even compete.

Lol, nothing like seeing them when they were the cutting edge being driven by the best, on stages far longer and far more difficult than today's rally's and in the dark and even on un-reccy'ed 'secret' stages.

They were sideways 100 yards before hairpins and so much more dramatic than any m2 escorts.

Loud, fast, dramatic, dangerous, coooool, oh yeah.

[numtumfutunch]

JONSCZ said:

I have it on 'reasonably good authority' that Lancia 'might have' sealed the roll cage in the S4 and filled it with Nitrous to inject into the engine.... .. . Allegedly

Outstanding!

I thought the skullduggery from F1 teams like hooky fuel tanks, lead ballast in the fuel at the finish line and dodgy wings and brakes was good but this is genius

[Gary C]

numtumfutunch said:

JONSCZ said:

I have it on 'reasonably good authority' that Lancia 'might have' sealed the roll cage in the S4 and filled it with Nitrous to inject into the engine.... .. . Allegedly

Outstanding!

I thought the skullduggery from F1 teams like hooky fuel tanks, lead ballast in the fuel at the finish line and dodgy wings and brakes was good but this is genius

I heard it was the fire extinguishers that actually contained nox, which could have explained why the toivennen fire was not put out , I hope this is wrong and someone is not living with this guilt.

Porsche did pressurise the 917 chassis tubes and fitted a pressure gauge to warn the driver if the magnesium alloy tubes cracked.

In f1, one team had an extra tank ifor a brake cooling system that could be dumped by the driver after scrutineering, therefore reducing the weight under the minimum, as the rules allowed any coolant to be topped back up before any post race checks

Then the famous Toyota gt4 turbo intake restrictor bypass which got them banned for a few seasons

Edited by Gary C on Sunday 16th October 18:59

[fttm]

Yeap the Nitrous was in the extinguishers allegedly , set the tongues wagging with the team swapping them out at every service point .

[Hugh Jarse]

Welshbeef said:

At least I post up genuinely interesting threads a few B/S ones but at least the vast majority are totally away from the standard what car we only ever see. We've never had a thread discussing the S4 and there have been some very enlightening posts with info about a topic which usually only goes into we miss a Group B.

Agree, good thread.

[aeropilot]

Simes205 said:

I don't remember seeing them either in Rallycross like the t16 and rs200.

Matti Alamaki ran a works supported S4 in the 1987 European Rallycross Championship, but it was far from successful, and Seppo Nittymaki won the Championship that year in his works backed 205T16E2.
Alamaki binned the S4 at the end of that year and got his own 205T16E2 and then went on win a hat-rick of Euro Rallycross Championships with it in '88, '89 & '90.

[lastofthev8s]

Video of the prototype in testing 1984 http://youtu.be/ViGgVVNrhtI

[aeropilot]

Gary C said:

numtumfutunch said:

JONSCZ said:

I have it on 'reasonably good authority' that Lancia 'might have' sealed the roll cage in the S4 and filled it with Nitrous to inject into the engine.... .. . Allegedly

Outstanding!

I thought the skullduggery from F1 teams like hooky fuel tanks, lead ballast in the fuel at the finish line and dodgy wings and brakes was good but this is genius

I heard it was the fire extinguishers that actually contained nox, which could have explained why the toivennen fire was not put out , I hope this is wrong and someone is not living with this guilt.

Very possibly.

I worked with a bunch of ex-Lancia works mechanics on the '92 RAC Rally, most of whom had been with Lancia in the S4 days, and they were a really great bunch, but got very non-plussed when one of the other Brits in our team brought up this very subject.

[Gary C]

aeropilot said:

Gary C said:

numtumfutunch said:

JONSCZ said:

I have it on 'reasonably good authority' that Lancia 'might have' sealed the roll cage in the S4 and filled it with Nitrous to inject into the engine.... .. . Allegedly

Outstanding!

I thought the skullduggery from F1 teams like hooky fuel tanks, lead ballast in the fuel at the finish line and dodgy wings and brakes was good but this is genius

I heard it was the fire extinguishers that actually contained nox, which could have explained why the toivennen fire was not put out , I hope this is wrong and someone is not living with this guilt.

Very possibly.

I worked with a bunch of ex-Lancia works mechanics on the '92 RAC Rally, most of whom had been with Lancia in the S4 days, and they were a really great bunch, but got very non-plussed when one of the other Brits in our team brought up this very subject.

Oh, that's sad.

[Iva Barchetta]

Welshbeef said:

Why does the T16 straios etc all get so much more glory than what is the real daddy? is it purely due to the fact it is this car which sadly ended GroupB

The first car to spell the end to B was the RS200,for ploughing into a crowd of spectators in Portugal .......I believe.

[Gary C]

Iva Barchetta said:

Welshbeef said:

Why does the T16 straios etc all get so much more glory than what is the real daddy? is it purely due to the fact it is this car which sadly ended GroupB

The first car to spell the end to B was the RS200,for ploughing into a crowd of spectators in Portugal .......I believe.

Sintra stage, Santros spund over a crest, Three died as I remember.

However, it was bound to happen regardless of being group b. The Portuguese were mental, some would even try to touch the cars, as the legend goes. They would stand across the road and move at the last minute. I remember some drivers refusing to drive at speed due to the lack of crowd control.