Lancia S4 0-100mph time 6.1seconds..

[thegreenhell]

No stage rally car in the history of ever has been geared for 185 mph. It's usually more like 185 kph.

[thegreenhell]

Simes205 said:

This story I heard years ago, fact or fiction who knows!

http://www.redbull.com/uk/en/motorsports/offroad/s...

Think about it.

S4 compared to an F1 car of the period has

Half the power
Half the tyre contact patch
Twice the weight
No meaningful downforce.

[Gary C]

thegreenhell said:

Simes205 said:

This story I heard years ago, fact or fiction who knows!

http://www.redbull.com/uk/en/motorsports/offroad/s...

Think about it.

S4 compared to an F1 car of the period has

Half the power
Half the tyre contact patch
Twice the weight
No meaningful downforce.

I remember hearing that rumour in the 80's, the truth it seems is still very, very impressive.

[Leins]

Welshbeef said:

Why does the T16 straios etc all get so much more glory than what is the real daddy?

Going back to the original question, it must be pointed out that the T16 won two championships (and various rally raids) and the Stratos three. The S4 didn't win any

For me the 037 was the real daddy in the Lancia family anyway

[Simes205]

Leins said:

Welshbeef said:

Why does the T16 straios etc all get so much more glory than what is the real daddy?

Going back to the original question, it must be pointed out that the T16 won two championships (and various rally raids) and the Stratos three. The S4 didn't win any

For me the 037 was the real daddy in the Lancia family anyway

S4 was too late.
I don't remember seeing them either in Rallycross like the t16 and rs200.

[Welshbeef]

SteveSteveson said:

Welshbeef said:

Ok so let's be silly the Range Rover sport treats is limited to 155mph. The drag coefficient of a Range Rover is clearly dramatically worse than an S4 - so at best 6 mph more(and the 155mph is going to be electronically limited too soeed forthe Range Rover).

http://fastestlaps.com/models/range-rover-sport-5-...

Not really relevant, but the outgoing Range Rover Sport produces 302bhp has a drag coefficient of 0.34 (the new one is even lower). Where as the Range Rover MK1 (the one I quoted) managed 110mph from 200bhp.

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/land-rover/rand-rover-50-v8-supercharged-autobiography-2015-review-/

503bhp for the RRS not sure which your thinking about - dagadagadagadaha possibly

[Leins]

Simes205 said:

S4 was too late.
I don't remember seeing them either in Rallycross like the t16 and rs200.

Sorry, too late for what?

[Gary C]

Simes205 said:

Leins said:

Welshbeef said:

Why does the T16 straios etc all get so much more glory than what is the real daddy?

Going back to the original question, it must be pointed out that the T16 won two championships (and various rally raids) and the Stratos three. The S4 didn't win any

For me the 037 was the real daddy in the Lancia family anyway

S4 was too late.
I don't remember seeing them either in Rallycross like the t16 and rs200.

Are you confusing the s4 with the rs200 ?

The s4 and t16 were contemporaries. Infact the marku Allen did witn the championship, for 11 days , when the exclusion of the t16's in Sanremo was judged incorrect and the rally result was annulled.

[thegreenhell]

Gary C said:

I remember hearing that rumour in the 80's, the truth it seems is still very, very impressive.

But what is the truth? Here's a different version

"Quote from "Rallyworld" 1986/87, from their coverage of the 1986 Rally of Portugal:
"Picking a winner was difficult, near impossible, but Henri Toivonen was one of the favorites. Still on a high and enjoying it all so much, he relaxed one evening by taking Grand Prix driver Jonathan Palmer on a few laps of the Estoril track in his Delta S4. In pouring rain, and at night, the Finn startled Palmer somewhat with the sheer performance of the racer, some unofficial estimates suggesting that the lap times would have had them somewhere on the front half of the grid for the 'wet' 1985 Portuguese Formula One race."

So it was at night, in the wet, and is based on 'unofficial estimates'. Sounds legit.

[RobM77]

thegreenhell said:

Gary C said:

I remember hearing that rumour in the 80's, the truth it seems is still very, very impressive.

But what is the truth? Here's a different version

"Quote from "Rallyworld" 1986/87, from their coverage of the 1986 Rally of Portugal:
"Picking a winner was difficult, near impossible, but Henri Toivonen was one of the favorites. Still on a high and enjoying it all so much, he relaxed one evening by taking Grand Prix driver Jonathan Palmer on a few laps of the Estoril track in his Delta S4. In pouring rain, and at night, the Finn startled Palmer somewhat with the sheer performance of the racer, some unofficial estimates suggesting that the lap times would have had them somewhere on the front half of the grid for the 'wet' 1985 Portuguese Formula One race."

So it was at night, in the wet, and is based on 'unofficial estimates'. Sounds legit.

It was also a different circuit. I've researched this myth and apparently the rally stage at Estoril had off road sections running between the tarmac sections, cutting off large parts of the circuit, like the Brands rallycross ciruit for example. There is no way on this earth that a Group B rally car would be anywhere near a Formula One car. A popular myth, much like the Superkarts being as quick as F3 cars myth; often repeated, but nonsense.

[Welshbeef]

It's a shame we don't still have a derestrocted category of racing

Like Group B
Like Can Am


Pushing technology to he limit would drastically improve the flow of latest tech to the road cars.



I've seen a few Group B cars driving in what if deep full on atttack and boy were they quick, WRC well doesn't even compete.

[Thundersports]

thegreenhell said:

Simes205 said:

This story I heard years ago, fact or fiction who knows!

http://www.redbull.com/uk/en/motorsports/offroad/s...

Think about it.

S4 compared to an F1 car of the period has

Half the power
Half the tyre contact patch
Twice the weight
No meaningful downforce.

BS Toivonon only used the Estoril short circuit.

[Pommygranite]

Welshbeef said:

0-62mph 2.9 seconds
0-125mph 10.2 seconds
0-100mph 6.1 seconds

Clearly exceptionally quick and only 450bhp.

This is a car which came out in first incarnation 10 YEARS before the McLaren F1 and destroyed it in any meaningful acceleration time.

When you say 'destroyed' define destroyed.

0.3 secs to 60 and 0.2 to 100 is not 'destroyed'

[FeelingLucky]

Welshbeef said:

It's a shame we don't still have a derestrocted category of racing

Like Group B
Like Can Am


Pushing technology to he limit would drastically improve the flow of latest tech to the road cars.



I've seen a few Group B cars driving in what if deep full on atttack and boy were they quick, WRC well doesn't even compete.

I'd love to see that too. I once bought an S4 in a drunken eBay moment, can't prove it though, so no custard.

[Welshbeef]

Pommygranite said:

Welshbeef said:

0-62mph 2.9 seconds
0-125mph 10.2 seconds
0-100mph 6.1 seconds

Clearly exceptionally quick and only 450bhp.

This is a car which came out in first incarnation 10 YEARS before the McLaren F1 and destroyed it in any meaningful acceleration time.

When you say 'destroyed' define destroyed.

0.3 secs to 60 and 0.2 to 100 is not 'destroyed'

I believe the phrase should be "owned"

And the 0-62mph "he's pullin"

[Simes205]

Gary C said:

Simes205 said:

Leins said:

Welshbeef said:

Why does the T16 straios etc all get so much more glory than what is the real daddy?

Going back to the original question, it must be pointed out that the T16 won two championships (and various rally raids) and the Stratos three. The S4 didn't win any

For me the 037 was the real daddy in the Lancia family anyway

S4 was too late.
I don't remember seeing them either in Rallycross like the t16 and rs200.

Are you confusing the s4 with the rs200 ?

The s4 and t16 were contemporaries. Infact the marku Allen did witn the championship, for 11 days , when the exclusion of the t16's in Sanremo was judged incorrect and the rally result was annulled.

No the s4 started competing later than the t16, it only had 5? Victories.
T16 had 16.

[loudlashadjuster]

Can't believe I read this.

Mods: Can we change the title of this thread to 'I don't understand gearing, nor the difference between race-prepared and homologated road versions of cars.'

[Welshbeef]

loudlashadjuster said:

Can't believe I read this.

Mods: Can we change the title of this thread to 'I don't understand gearing, nor the difference between race-prepared and homologated road versions of cars.'

We're strictly talking about the actual race car not the homoloaged one win 200bhp.

[Gary C]

Simes205 said:

Gary C said:

Simes205 said:

Leins said:

Welshbeef said:

Why does the T16 straios etc all get so much more glory than what is the real daddy?

Going back to the original question, it must be pointed out that the T16 won two championships (and various rally raids) and the Stratos three. The S4 didn't win any

For me the 037 was the real daddy in the Lancia family anyway

S4 was too late.
I don't remember seeing them either in Rallycross like the t16 and rs200.

Are you confusing the s4 with the rs200 ?

The s4 and t16 were contemporaries. Infact the marku Allen did witn the championship, for 11 days , when the exclusion of the t16's in Sanremo was judged incorrect and the rally result was annulled.

No the s4 started competing later than the t16, it only had 5? Victories.
T16 had 16.

Wouldn't call it too late like some. It was in full on battle with the t16 which was undoubtedly more successful but only had three wrc wins in 1984.

Edited by Gary C on Sunday 16th October 09:27

[Welshbeef]

Gary C said:

Wouldn't call it too late like some. It was in full on battle with the t16.

The S4 LANCIA was the most extreme /ultimate GroupB ever made. You have to wonder what the competition we're planning/designing to beat the challenge the S4. Actually there must be some info on this

How far could Group B have gone? Power to weight into the 700bhp/tonne/more? Cryogenic injection electric Turbo chargers hugely increasing max rpm