RWD - FWD - LSD - No of Cyls. Can You Really Tell?
Discussion
Another thread got me thinking about how many people really can tell the difference in a car's performance based on what fuel they put in it. Does the expensive stuff really make a difference; can you honestly tell? Really?
Furthermore, can most people genuinely differentiate between a rear wheel drive and a front wheel drive car in normal use? Is the difference that marked that people with average driving ability and experience - which by definition is nearly all of us - could tell by themselves, without having done research or asked? I suspect most people know what ABS is, but not necessarily what it does, but what about a LSD? And as for cylinders, can the average driver honestly tell how many cylinders are under the bonnet: 3, 4, 5 or 6? Maybe he might be able to tell an 8 from a 4, but from a 6? Could most tell the difference between 8 and 12?
I realise that many here will claim they can. I'd like to think I can. I suspect that the collective 'PH-we' might be better than most, but I bet we're not as discriminating or knowledgeable as we like to think we are.
Furthermore, can most people genuinely differentiate between a rear wheel drive and a front wheel drive car in normal use? Is the difference that marked that people with average driving ability and experience - which by definition is nearly all of us - could tell by themselves, without having done research or asked? I suspect most people know what ABS is, but not necessarily what it does, but what about a LSD? And as for cylinders, can the average driver honestly tell how many cylinders are under the bonnet: 3, 4, 5 or 6? Maybe he might be able to tell an 8 from a 4, but from a 6? Could most tell the difference between 8 and 12?
I realise that many here will claim they can. I'd like to think I can. I suspect that the collective 'PH-we' might be better than most, but I bet we're not as discriminating or knowledgeable as we like to think we are.
As for most of it, you bet ya' b
ks I can.
Anyone that doesn't know what ABS does needs to get on a skid pan and find out. COMPLETELY different ways of stopping similar cars. I can't believe this not part of the driving test.
HATE FWD cars. Just wrong to try getting power to wheels than need to steer. (Had some).
LSD makes a huge difference on track and on fast twisties in the Highlands. (My first track car didn't have it)
Can't tell the difference between 8, 6 & 4, except for the sound and the power. Always find more the better.
Did I miss anything?
ks I can.Anyone that doesn't know what ABS does needs to get on a skid pan and find out. COMPLETELY different ways of stopping similar cars. I can't believe this not part of the driving test.
HATE FWD cars. Just wrong to try getting power to wheels than need to steer. (Had some).
LSD makes a huge difference on track and on fast twisties in the Highlands. (My first track car didn't have it)
Can't tell the difference between 8, 6 & 4, except for the sound and the power. Always find more the better.
Did I miss anything?
Edited by GetCarter on Sunday 16th October 15:02
I certainly can tell tell the difference, but then like most Phers I'm a driving God. But I'd say that in the main most people couldn't tell the difference on low power stuff, but most fwd stuff over 100hp, especially diesel stuff, is definately noticeable when trying to pull into a roundabout or junction quickly, especially in the wet. Whereas until rwd stuff get up over 200 hp most people don't notice, but I guess that proves that rwd is a better choice of layout.
As for cylinder count, I guess it comes down to vibration and noise which unless. It's a diesel modern stuff, even little 3cylinder are pretty smooth and near silent. But personally I do like a 6 cylinder petrol in a big car for the wafting, only bettered I suppose by a nice v8.
LSD, well I guess you have to drive quite hard to notice, certainly in a rwd, but I've never driven a fwd car with an LSD so can't comment on that.
As for cylinder count, I guess it comes down to vibration and noise which unless. It's a diesel modern stuff, even little 3cylinder are pretty smooth and near silent. But personally I do like a 6 cylinder petrol in a big car for the wafting, only bettered I suppose by a nice v8.
LSD, well I guess you have to drive quite hard to notice, certainly in a rwd, but I've never driven a fwd car with an LSD so can't comment on that.
I can tell the difference between FWD & RWD, certainly enough to know I'm more confident and comfortable in FWD, prefer it, and so I stick with that. I can also tell if a car has an LSD. I think most enthusiastic drivers would be able to tell between this stuff, especially if they ever drive on track.
Number of cylinders is different. Different types of engine setups (ie: valves, forced induction, capacity etc) blur the lines and so, for me at least, it becomes a case of finding a car with an engine you like and enjoying it regardless.
Number of cylinders is different. Different types of engine setups (ie: valves, forced induction, capacity etc) blur the lines and so, for me at least, it becomes a case of finding a car with an engine you like and enjoying it regardless.
If you have any interest at all in cars are driving these things will be obvious.
FWD v RWD - easy! And I'm no Ken Block either. In the dry, a RWD car has massively more traction off the line you can't fail to notice. Steering is uncorrupted by power. The handling characteristics are generally completely different, in so much as if you try and drive a RWD car fast in the same way you would a FWD car you'll probably end up as part of the scenery.
LSD - fairly easy to tell - take car to a hairpin bend and floor it. Without - wheelspin, with it, you will find a lot more traction.
No of cylinders - definitely. Most 4-pots are bland as hell. Anything with 5 or more always seems to sound better (howling VTEC excepted). The straight-6 in my Z4 howls better than the V6 in my old 350Z, but the 350Z sounded meatier starting up, and at low revs. The same can be said for 5-pots, V8s, V10s and V12s.
I'd be more surprised if someone COULDN'T tell the differences.
FWD v RWD - easy! And I'm no Ken Block either. In the dry, a RWD car has massively more traction off the line you can't fail to notice. Steering is uncorrupted by power. The handling characteristics are generally completely different, in so much as if you try and drive a RWD car fast in the same way you would a FWD car you'll probably end up as part of the scenery.
LSD - fairly easy to tell - take car to a hairpin bend and floor it. Without - wheelspin, with it, you will find a lot more traction.
No of cylinders - definitely. Most 4-pots are bland as hell. Anything with 5 or more always seems to sound better (howling VTEC excepted). The straight-6 in my Z4 howls better than the V6 in my old 350Z, but the 350Z sounded meatier starting up, and at low revs. The same can be said for 5-pots, V8s, V10s and V12s.
I'd be more surprised if someone COULDN'T tell the differences.
FWD vs RWD - very easily, even at walking pace, although a 4WD car can feel like either or neither depending on how its set up.
LSD vs no LSD - If the setup is any good only when really approaching the limits of traction.
Number of cylinders - I'm nowhere near as good at this as many people seem to be. I can usually tell the layout of a naturally aspirated engine but with a turbocharger slurring the exhaust pulses I tend to struggle.
LSD vs no LSD - If the setup is any good only when really approaching the limits of traction.
Number of cylinders - I'm nowhere near as good at this as many people seem to be. I can usually tell the layout of a naturally aspirated engine but with a turbocharger slurring the exhaust pulses I tend to struggle.
FWD vs RWD. 100% yes. You can feel the difference in the steering very quickly in my experience. I dislike the feeling of a FWD CAR.
LSD vs no? Not on the road, except in very bad weather in a light car. Otherwise I would say he kind of driving that makes the difference noticeable is generally not appropriate on most roads (other than making roundabouts less fun).
Cylinder layout? Depends. Most I can tell by the tell, but a few I am not sure on:
I can tell a boxer, but I couldn't tell the difference between a boxer 4 and a boxer 6, other than knowing which cars have which engine.
V6 vs some V8 can be difficult.
Inline 6 vs V6 I would struggle with.
V10 vs V12 I don't know if I could tell, but that may in part down to not being very common.
LSD vs no? Not on the road, except in very bad weather in a light car. Otherwise I would say he kind of driving that makes the difference noticeable is generally not appropriate on most roads (other than making roundabouts less fun).
Cylinder layout? Depends. Most I can tell by the tell, but a few I am not sure on:
I can tell a boxer, but I couldn't tell the difference between a boxer 4 and a boxer 6, other than knowing which cars have which engine.
V6 vs some V8 can be difficult.
Inline 6 vs V6 I would struggle with.
V10 vs V12 I don't know if I could tell, but that may in part down to not being very common.
Number of cylinders? I can tell instantly from the sound (up to 8, distinguishing a V10 from a V12 might be hit-and-miss), I don't think the average driver even knows what cylinders are or that engines come with different numbers of them.
Driven wheels? Driving in walking pace traffic or on the motorway no, anything more than that then yes. Again I don't think the average driver even knows that different driven wheels are a thing so I really doubt they would be able to tell.
LSD? I could tell if I deliberately broke traction, probably not otherwise. Once again I'm pretty sure very few drivers even know what a LSD is so would hardly notice it's presence or absence.
Fuel? My bum dyno isn't calibrated accurately enough to feel any difference though I have noticed better MPG on cars mapped for higher RON fuel. The placebo effect can't be ignored here either.
Driven wheels? Driving in walking pace traffic or on the motorway no, anything more than that then yes. Again I don't think the average driver even knows that different driven wheels are a thing so I really doubt they would be able to tell.
LSD? I could tell if I deliberately broke traction, probably not otherwise. Once again I'm pretty sure very few drivers even know what a LSD is so would hardly notice it's presence or absence.
Fuel? My bum dyno isn't calibrated accurately enough to feel any difference though I have noticed better MPG on cars mapped for higher RON fuel. The placebo effect can't be ignored here either.
When I started driving most cars were RWD. Maybe this is why I have no problem telling the difference and why I much prefer RWD? Whilst I have owned a couple of fun FWD cars (classic Mini & Renault 5 Alpine or Gordini Turbo as it was badged over here) I didn't like torque steer or their propensity to understeer when pushed.
It's easy to tell if there's an LSD but you'll really need to try and break traction with the driven wheels to be sure. An LSD makes oversteer in a RWD car much easier to control and far more predictable on the limit. One tyre fire just isn't any fun.
As for number of cylinders I don't think it's hard to tell really. I know there are lots of anti 4 pot comments to be found on PH but I wouldn't swap for the one in my old 3 series. It might not be the most powerful but it's a joy to drive hard and the induction noise is awesome.
It's easy to tell if there's an LSD but you'll really need to try and break traction with the driven wheels to be sure. An LSD makes oversteer in a RWD car much easier to control and far more predictable on the limit. One tyre fire just isn't any fun.
As for number of cylinders I don't think it's hard to tell really. I know there are lots of anti 4 pot comments to be found on PH but I wouldn't swap for the one in my old 3 series. It might not be the most powerful but it's a joy to drive hard and the induction noise is awesome.
At sedated commuting pace. Probably no to all of these.
As soon as you start asking a little from the car then most become pretty clear. To spot an LSD you need to push beyond a car starting to move around a little. And then you have proper mech LSDs vs Elec ones starts getting murky.
Super unleaded... No, never found a notable difference.
No of cylinders. Some quite distinctive and easy to tell particularly in NA versions. Much harder with FI. Then all sorts of funny effects with cross plane cranks and funny firing orders etc... So I'd say "most of the time" on this and I'd need to hear it more than any feel from power delivery etc.
As soon as you start asking a little from the car then most become pretty clear. To spot an LSD you need to push beyond a car starting to move around a little. And then you have proper mech LSDs vs Elec ones starts getting murky.
Super unleaded... No, never found a notable difference.
No of cylinders. Some quite distinctive and easy to tell particularly in NA versions. Much harder with FI. Then all sorts of funny effects with cross plane cranks and funny firing orders etc... So I'd say "most of the time" on this and I'd need to hear it more than any feel from power delivery etc.
I have a 6-cyl and I think it's smoother and sounds nicer than the 4-cyls I had before even though there are no intake/exhaust mods.
RWD even on commute you can feel the attitude of the car is different on the power, the steering behaves differently.
So i'd say you can tell, what is best is probably a preference issue... I'd happily have another FWD hot hatch (it has to be Renault RS, Ford ST type not just a shopping box), but would want a RWD coupe in the stable as well... if I could only have one car it would probably be RWD or I might try a modern AWD.
RWD even on commute you can feel the attitude of the car is different on the power, the steering behaves differently.
So i'd say you can tell, what is best is probably a preference issue... I'd happily have another FWD hot hatch (it has to be Renault RS, Ford ST type not just a shopping box), but would want a RWD coupe in the stable as well... if I could only have one car it would probably be RWD or I might try a modern AWD.
CharlesdeGaulle said:
Another thread got me thinking about how many people really can tell the difference in a car's performance based on what fuel they put in it. Does the expensive stuff really make a difference; can you honestly tell? Really?
Furthermore, can most people genuinely differentiate between a rear wheel drive and a front wheel drive car in normal use? Is the difference that marked that people with average driving ability and experience - which by definition is nearly all of us - could tell by themselves, without having done research or asked? I suspect most people know what ABS is, but not necessarily what it does, but what about a LSD? And as for cylinders, can the average driver honestly tell how many cylinders are under the bonnet: 3, 4, 5 or 6? Maybe he might be able to tell an 8 from a 4, but from a 6? Could most tell the difference between 8 and 12?
I realise that many here will claim they can. I'd like to think I can. I suspect that the collective 'PH-we' might be better than most, but I bet we're not as discriminating or knowledgeable as we like to think we are.
Is this a serious question ? Has anyone here ever got in a car without knowing which wheels are driven ? Furthermore, can most people genuinely differentiate between a rear wheel drive and a front wheel drive car in normal use? Is the difference that marked that people with average driving ability and experience - which by definition is nearly all of us - could tell by themselves, without having done research or asked? I suspect most people know what ABS is, but not necessarily what it does, but what about a LSD? And as for cylinders, can the average driver honestly tell how many cylinders are under the bonnet: 3, 4, 5 or 6? Maybe he might be able to tell an 8 from a 4, but from a 6? Could most tell the difference between 8 and 12?
I realise that many here will claim they can. I'd like to think I can. I suspect that the collective 'PH-we' might be better than most, but I bet we're not as discriminating or knowledgeable as we like to think we are.
If in an alternate universe,I ever got in a car without prior knowledge of the drive line configuration,Id need just to pull away to know what the driveline is like.
CharlesdeGaulle said:
Another thread got me thinking about how many people really can tell the difference in a car's performance based on what fuel they put in it. Does the expensive stuff really make a difference; can you honestly tell? Really?
Furthermore, can most people genuinely differentiate between a rear wheel drive and a front wheel drive car in normal use? Is the difference that marked that people with average driving ability and experience - which by definition is nearly all of us - could tell by themselves, without having done research or asked? I suspect most people know what ABS is, but not necessarily what it does, but what about a LSD? And as for cylinders, can the average driver honestly tell how many cylinders are under the bonnet: 3, 4, 5 or 6? Maybe he might be able to tell an 8 from a 4, but from a 6? Could most tell the difference between 8 and 12?
I realise that many here will claim they can. I'd like to think I can. I suspect that the collective 'PH-we' might be better than most, but I bet we're not as discriminating or knowledgeable as we like to think we are.
The ignorant won't be able to tell, no. But the ignorant wouldn't notice if it was petrol or diesel...Furthermore, can most people genuinely differentiate between a rear wheel drive and a front wheel drive car in normal use? Is the difference that marked that people with average driving ability and experience - which by definition is nearly all of us - could tell by themselves, without having done research or asked? I suspect most people know what ABS is, but not necessarily what it does, but what about a LSD? And as for cylinders, can the average driver honestly tell how many cylinders are under the bonnet: 3, 4, 5 or 6? Maybe he might be able to tell an 8 from a 4, but from a 6? Could most tell the difference between 8 and 12?
I realise that many here will claim they can. I'd like to think I can. I suspect that the collective 'PH-we' might be better than most, but I bet we're not as discriminating or knowledgeable as we like to think we are.
I'd expect every person on here would immediately and obviously notice the difference between the driven wheels and cylinders
fred bloggs said:
Is this a serious question ? Has anyone here ever got in a car without knowing which wheels are driven ?
If in an alternate universe,I ever got in a car without prior knowledge of the drive line configuration,Id need just to pull away to know what the driveline is like.
This is exactly my point. I bet the vast majority of people get in a car without knowing - or caring - which wheels are driven. Or how many cylinders it has. For many of them, even which fuel it uses. If in an alternate universe,I ever got in a car without prior knowledge of the drive line configuration,Id need just to pull away to know what the driveline is like.
And whilst you will undoubtedly be able to tell the driveline configuration the moment you pull away, my proposition is that nearly every one else won't have a clue.
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