All those bargain end of Lease Golf R's ?
Discussion
J4CKO said:
Sheepshanks said:
daemon said:
Because the used market tend to be fairly blind to what new cars can be PCP'd / leased for, and in fact, probably doesnt care.
That's a what a VW dealer salesman told me last year when buying a Tiguan.We needed it quickly so I initially thought I'd buy a stock car nearly new. Inchcape had over 100 of them but it quickly became apparent that very recent ones (same spec at new) were anything up to £3K more than discounted new. You had to go back over 12mth before they were cheaper, and they had the previous engine and no sat-nav.
And it's not like you could negotiate a lower price - tried two branches and got stone-walled.
I find it hard to believe but the salesman said people just don't make the comparison - they come in thinking they want used and that's what they focus on. I guess in most dealers it's a different sales team so it's not in their interest to swap people around.
I think leasing is more company/user choosers and those wanting maximum car for the monthly, one/two/three yearold used it perhaps the more "Steady Eddie" approach, my wife wouldnt leave but was happy buying a year old/11k Fiesta, was massively cheaper than new.
Have a read of any of the leasing threads and you'll notice a huge amount of posters who wuld never consider leasing a new car based on nothing but perception and it 'not being what they do'. Even given all of the figures they are still utterly unwilling to believe that it can make financial sense and will stick to their 'buy at 3 years old' and 'you must own your own car' mantra their dad taught them as a kid.
SWoll said:
J4CKO said:
Sheepshanks said:
daemon said:
Because the used market tend to be fairly blind to what new cars can be PCP'd / leased for, and in fact, probably doesnt care.
That's a what a VW dealer salesman told me last year when buying a Tiguan.We needed it quickly so I initially thought I'd buy a stock car nearly new. Inchcape had over 100 of them but it quickly became apparent that very recent ones (same spec at new) were anything up to £3K more than discounted new. You had to go back over 12mth before they were cheaper, and they had the previous engine and no sat-nav.
And it's not like you could negotiate a lower price - tried two branches and got stone-walled.
I find it hard to believe but the salesman said people just don't make the comparison - they come in thinking they want used and that's what they focus on. I guess in most dealers it's a different sales team so it's not in their interest to swap people around.
I think leasing is more company/user choosers and those wanting maximum car for the monthly, one/two/three yearold used it perhaps the more "Steady Eddie" approach, my wife wouldnt leave but was happy buying a year old/11k Fiesta, was massively cheaper than new.
Have a read of any of the leasing threads and you'll notice a huge amount of posters who wuld never consider leasing a new car based on nothing but perception and it 'not being what they do'. Even given all of the figures they are still utterly unwilling to believe that it can make financial sense and will stick to their 'buy at 3 years old' and 'you must own your own car' mantra their dad taught them as a kid.
.As for the Golf R, already mentioned, partly or completely, but the finance angle gives the manufacturers more influence in at least some ways and leasing even more so since they can hide the actual price, rather than the notional list price & hefty discount, plus exert more control over used stock to try and keep used prices higher than they would otherwise be.
J4CKO said:
Not sure where this "ragged" thing comes from, I can get the fact they are too expensive currently relative to a discounted new one but people still rag ones they own, maybe less but really I cant see they will be knackered after two years and 10 to 20k even with the odd bit of stick from cold.
The leasing works for the manufacturers as a Golf Cost x pounds to make, even the most basic ones cost pretty much the same as an R to make, ok the 4wd gubbins will cost more but I cant imagine most of it will really make an R cost more to make than any other Golf, that you can get from what 18 grand, VW much prefer to sell 30 grand R's to 18 grand bog spec ones, its another 12 grand minimum, for very little additional outlay after its been designed and tested, would be interesting to see the actual costs and what costs the most to make, the line will be running day and night chucking them out.
They need cars in the used chain and the cheap leases do that quite nicely as otherwise the Golf R, and many other cars would be a rare sight !
Think it goes something like this at every red lightThe leasing works for the manufacturers as a Golf Cost x pounds to make, even the most basic ones cost pretty much the same as an R to make, ok the 4wd gubbins will cost more but I cant imagine most of it will really make an R cost more to make than any other Golf, that you can get from what 18 grand, VW much prefer to sell 30 grand R's to 18 grand bog spec ones, its another 12 grand minimum, for very little additional outlay after its been designed and tested, would be interesting to see the actual costs and what costs the most to make, the line will be running day and night chucking them out.
They need cars in the used chain and the cheap leases do that quite nicely as otherwise the Golf R, and many other cars would be a rare sight !
Yo blud let me show u blow this fiesta
Next traffic light
Yo blud le me show mans blow this s5
Next traffic light
What mans thinks hes a bad man in his bentley, ill blow u
Next traffic light
Man thinks hes sick in his pos 1995 nissan, watch this
Next traffic light
Chicks hot in that mini, ill show her whos the man
Next traffic light
What an r8, man thinks hes tuff in that, ill smash him over the humps ( while flying 60 mph over humps)
I could go on, but im bored
I woulnt buy it, younguns seem to love s3 golfs and a45s
J4CKO said:
.... my wife wouldnt lease but was happy buying a year old/11k Fiesta, was massively cheaper than new.
That's the point though - fair enough if it's massively cheaper, but with VW, by the time you've taken discounts and PCP contributions into account, there's often little (if any) difference between new and nearly-new.daemon said:
lewisf182 said:
5k miles per anumm and a mileage correction on handing back looks a pretty easy option!
Is it though?Surely the car is due a service every year, so you'd need to clock it 3 times, and also any time it was in for any repairs under warranty you'd need to clock it then too.
What I don't understand is why the golf R hold's it's value so much better than an M135i, if you compare both side by side for sale (similar year 7 mileage) the R's are usually worth multiple of K's more, just seem's odd to me! even the Mk6 Golf R are as expensive as 2012/13 M135i's. They hold their value extremely well and I can't see the huge amount of ex lease cars coming onto the market changing that, as they will be snapped up quickly - to me it seems leasing was a bad option considering how they have held their value.
Edited by lewisf182 on Tuesday 18th October 08:45
Edited by lewisf182 on Tuesday 18th October 09:03
VW will be setting the RV for these and throttling the supply into the used market to sustain it. Remember they will sell these at closed auctions to dealers. The manufacturer controls the used price - this is essential for them as they are holding that RV risk, last thing they want to do is flood the market then they couldn't offer cheap monthlies as the figures simply wouldn't add up.
lewisf182 said:
daemon said:
lewisf182 said:
5k miles per anumm and a mileage correction on handing back looks a pretty easy option!
Is it though?Surely the car is due a service every year, so you'd need to clock it 3 times, and also any time it was in for any repairs under warranty you'd need to clock it then too.
What I don't understand is why the golf R hold's it's value so much better than an M135i, if you look compare both side by side for sale the R's are usually worth multiple of K's more, just seem's odd to me! even the Mk6 Golf R are as expensive as 2012/13 M135i's. They hold their value extremely well and I can't see the huge amount of ex lease cars coming onto the market changing that, as they will be snapped up quickly - to me it seems leasing was a bad option considering how they have held their value.
Edited by lewisf182 on Tuesday 18th October 08:45
Suspect the Golf R has more image and desirability, its packaged better for family use, arguably better looking and I think the six cylinders might put some off, plus it doesnt have AWD like the Golf, traction is an issue with them in the wet, made me think coming in this morning, mine will light the traction control light at 60 mph or more, on decent tyres, the 135i is smaller and lighter.
Jim AK said:
rampageturke said:
ragged to death during lease, clocked when it goes back to the dealer before the first MOT, given a quick shine and sold on as a lower miles, well kept example for more
Really?What exactly do you base that load of horse s
t on?Tryke3 said:
Think it goes something like this at every red light
Yo blud let me show u blow this fiesta
Next traffic light
Yo blud le me show mans blow this s5
Next traffic light
What mans thinks hes a bad man in his bentley, ill blow u
Next traffic light
Man thinks hes sick in his pos 1995 nissan, watch this
Next traffic light
Chicks hot in that mini, ill show her whos the man
Next traffic light
What an r8, man thinks hes tuff in that, ill smash him over the humps ( while flying 60 mph over humps)
I could go on, but im bored
I woulnt buy it, younguns seem to love s3 golfs and a45s
If you think that is true, you are clearly in need of some sort of medical assistance IMO.Yo blud let me show u blow this fiesta
Next traffic light
Yo blud le me show mans blow this s5
Next traffic light
What mans thinks hes a bad man in his bentley, ill blow u
Next traffic light
Man thinks hes sick in his pos 1995 nissan, watch this
Next traffic light
Chicks hot in that mini, ill show her whos the man
Next traffic light
What an r8, man thinks hes tuff in that, ill smash him over the humps ( while flying 60 mph over humps)
I could go on, but im bored
I woulnt buy it, younguns seem to love s3 golfs and a45s
SuperchargedVR6 said:
I was thinking the same. How do you clock a modern car? Pretty sure the instruments, immobilizer, CAN gateway and Engine ECU are all tied together electronically? Gone are the days when you put a drill in reverse on the speedo cable lol!
pretty easy. laptop and a lead. have you seen how many mileage correction firms are advertised?J4CKO said:
Yeah, weird isnt it, the MK6 is really expensive, even 2009/2010, the M135i seems much better value, there was a immaculate, low miler 2013 at a posh and quite expensive dealers locally for £19,995, probably 2k more than when compared to private examples but didnt seem that bad.
The MK6 R's never came out new with attractive cheap leases like they did with the 7R's so VW couldn't shift them by the bucket-load like they did with the new ones. It makes perfect sense really.Not many people wanna spend sub 30k on a Golf, fast or not, outright in cash brand-new and without any decent value leases/PCPs meant that they have become quite rare and their values have held firmly.
culpz said:
J4CKO said:
Yeah, weird isnt it, the MK6 is really expensive, even 2009/2010, the M135i seems much better value, there was a immaculate, low miler 2013 at a posh and quite expensive dealers locally for £19,995, probably 2k more than when compared to private examples but didnt seem that bad.
The MK6 R's never came out new with attractive cheap leases like they did with the 7R's so VW couldn't shift them by the bucket-load like they did with the new ones. It makes perfect sense really.Not many people wanna spend sub 30k on a Golf, fast or not, outright in cash brand-new and without any decent value leases/PCPs meant that they have become quite rare and their values have held firmly.
I think the crux of it is that a Golf R is a very fast, very well regarded (and reviewed) current model car which is pretty good on fuel and insurance. As such most snotty nosed mid-teens to mid-30s Joe Publics would love to get into one and demand is therefore high. Then there are the factors which make a second hand purchase seem the way to go
1. Most Joe Publics don't know about how you get mega lease deals or may not trust the intermediary market
2. Most Joe Publics don't know or would not trust an online new car broker
3. Most Joe Publics view cars in terms of what they can afford on the 'munfleas'
So on the face of it, they're looking at two year old cars with 20-30ish per cent off which feels pretty good compared to the list price and gets their monthly payment low enough to avoid pay day loans each month, just. Plus it is relatively low miles and still has a wiff of warranty.
Any deal can look like a good deal if you don't have sight of a better one.
1. Most Joe Publics don't know about how you get mega lease deals or may not trust the intermediary market
2. Most Joe Publics don't know or would not trust an online new car broker
3. Most Joe Publics view cars in terms of what they can afford on the 'munfleas'
So on the face of it, they're looking at two year old cars with 20-30ish per cent off which feels pretty good compared to the list price and gets their monthly payment low enough to avoid pay day loans each month, just. Plus it is relatively low miles and still has a wiff of warranty.
Any deal can look like a good deal if you don't have sight of a better one.
Edited by Hitch on Tuesday 18th October 11:38
jimi said:
VW will be setting the RV for these and throttling the supply into the used market to sustain it. Remember they will sell these at closed auctions to dealers. The manufacturer controls the used price - this is essential for them as they are holding that RV risk, last thing they want to do is flood the market then they couldn't offer cheap monthlies as the figures simply wouldn't add up.
Hardly call 15 to 20 cars a week through BCAs open auctions throttling the supply....
av185 said:
jimi said:
VW will be setting the RV for these and throttling the supply into the used market to sustain it. Remember they will sell these at closed auctions to dealers. The manufacturer controls the used price - this is essential for them as they are holding that RV risk, last thing they want to do is flood the market then they couldn't offer cheap monthlies as the figures simply wouldn't add up.
Hardly call 15 to 20 cars a week through BCAs open auctions throttling the supply....
J4CKO said:
Yeah, they are fairly uncommon, more S3's about which is the same thing but strangely seem a bit cheaper, I would imagine the 6 will drop as the 7's become more numerous used unless its some strange VAG scene thing about having a 6 over the more common, but better 7 ?
As far as i'm aware, the MK6R wasn't highly regarded. Yess, it's very fast and is easily tune-able to be even quicker but that's about it really. There wasn't really much else about them in particular.I can't see them dropping much in price if i'm honest. You can even get a MK7 GTI for a bit cheaper than an 6R. They may just maintain value or just depreciate very slowly. It probably would have already happened by now tbh.
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