1992 Jaguar XJR-S
Discussion
Having bought this from PHer CharlesdeGaulle I thought I'd start a new owners thread. This was his
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
So anyway I'd wanted an XJS for years and had followed CdGs purchase of this car with interest. I've run an X300 4 litre sovereign and an X305 6 litre XJ12 in the past and enjoyed them enormously, both proving to be flawlessly reliable over fairly high mileages. I'd always been put off my the 3 speed auto that all but the last 6 litre XJS had, but only for the same reason that I would find a 3.2 XJ6 so unsatisfactory to own knowing that the 4.0 exists.
Two divorces and unexpected bonus twins have caused an interesting car drought in my life over the last 5 years. Things are looking good again now though, so I felt it was time to scratch the itch. I looked at another XJ12 but felt that as a second fun car it was too boring, I considered MX5s, MGBs, a DeLorean (pushing the boat out budget wise!), and then saw mention in the barge thread that CdG would be looking to sell his car soon. After a somewhat tortuous process to view and finally purchase the car here we are.
I had not been near an XJS in person for years before viewing the car, and was surprised anew at just how unlike anything else it looks. As CdG has described the car is in good overall condition, there is some lacquer peel on both bumpers which I suspect is due to the painting process used at JaguarSport, both front wings are bubbling a little but are about 18-24 months away from being urgent, the bonnet has been resprayed at the colour match is not quite right, but otherwise it's in remarkable condition for 24 years and 98,000 miles. The wheels in particular look like new, it's certainly less rotten than any 1992 MX5 you're likely to find
I've covered 250 miles in the week since collecting it, which have been thoroughly enjoyable and very interesting. First of all:
That's the average economy. Eeek. That's not so much from giving it the beans as it was doing well at 18mpg when I was making progress, a cross city trip on Sunday really hammered it.
Impressions? Well, it is an absolutely wonderful car in many ways. The engine seems much more raw here than in the XJ12, you can hear it when you're pressing on and because it's at 3000rpm at a motorway cruise you can hear it then too. There is no vibration from it of course, but by modern standards it is loud in the cabin. I am struggling to describe the character of the engine because from dawdling speed to criminal speed it's just a case of perfectly linear power delivery from any engine speed to any engine speed with no gear changes. Acceleration above 70 in particular is very entertaining. It is a fantastic engine.
The interior is a case of lovely materials and terrible ergonomics, with all sorts of features from before the time when cars became so homogenised. Favourites are the flip up mirror in the glove box lid, and the climate control system that gives you absolutely no control over air distribution whatsoever. The autolux leather is beautifully soft but the seats are not particularly comfortable, and your left leg is squashed against the warm transmission tunnel. An XJ40 feels far more "modern" to drive and be in, let alone an X300.
All in all while it is fabulous and I've rapidly falling in love it also serves as a really interesting lesson in just how far we've come and how much motoring has changed, in good and bad ways. For all the hyperbole about continent crushing abilities I suspect you'd have a quieter, more comfortable, and more restful 500 mile trip in an automatic Ford Focus than in this car. Equally well many of the criticisms always levelled at the XJS do not ring true. Visibility is really quite good, turning circle it better than many large FWD cars, the width is modest by modern standards, and I have found it to be easy to park and easy to drive in city traffic.
That all sounds very negative, but I am merely being objective in assessing it. I love it, it's absolutely everything I hoped it would be, and I'm already making a list of small jobs to do before it goes away for it's new wings and front end respray in the spring.
Oh yeah, and an overdrive top gear would be great. 3000RPM at 80 is absurd for a car with nearly 500NM of torque from 1500RPM. Does make for amusing acceleration on the motorway though.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
So anyway I'd wanted an XJS for years and had followed CdGs purchase of this car with interest. I've run an X300 4 litre sovereign and an X305 6 litre XJ12 in the past and enjoyed them enormously, both proving to be flawlessly reliable over fairly high mileages. I'd always been put off my the 3 speed auto that all but the last 6 litre XJS had, but only for the same reason that I would find a 3.2 XJ6 so unsatisfactory to own knowing that the 4.0 exists.
Two divorces and unexpected bonus twins have caused an interesting car drought in my life over the last 5 years. Things are looking good again now though, so I felt it was time to scratch the itch. I looked at another XJ12 but felt that as a second fun car it was too boring, I considered MX5s, MGBs, a DeLorean (pushing the boat out budget wise!), and then saw mention in the barge thread that CdG would be looking to sell his car soon. After a somewhat tortuous process to view and finally purchase the car here we are.
I had not been near an XJS in person for years before viewing the car, and was surprised anew at just how unlike anything else it looks. As CdG has described the car is in good overall condition, there is some lacquer peel on both bumpers which I suspect is due to the painting process used at JaguarSport, both front wings are bubbling a little but are about 18-24 months away from being urgent, the bonnet has been resprayed at the colour match is not quite right, but otherwise it's in remarkable condition for 24 years and 98,000 miles. The wheels in particular look like new, it's certainly less rotten than any 1992 MX5 you're likely to find
I've covered 250 miles in the week since collecting it, which have been thoroughly enjoyable and very interesting. First of all:
That's the average economy. Eeek. That's not so much from giving it the beans as it was doing well at 18mpg when I was making progress, a cross city trip on Sunday really hammered it.
Impressions? Well, it is an absolutely wonderful car in many ways. The engine seems much more raw here than in the XJ12, you can hear it when you're pressing on and because it's at 3000rpm at a motorway cruise you can hear it then too. There is no vibration from it of course, but by modern standards it is loud in the cabin. I am struggling to describe the character of the engine because from dawdling speed to criminal speed it's just a case of perfectly linear power delivery from any engine speed to any engine speed with no gear changes. Acceleration above 70 in particular is very entertaining. It is a fantastic engine.
The interior is a case of lovely materials and terrible ergonomics, with all sorts of features from before the time when cars became so homogenised. Favourites are the flip up mirror in the glove box lid, and the climate control system that gives you absolutely no control over air distribution whatsoever. The autolux leather is beautifully soft but the seats are not particularly comfortable, and your left leg is squashed against the warm transmission tunnel. An XJ40 feels far more "modern" to drive and be in, let alone an X300.
All in all while it is fabulous and I've rapidly falling in love it also serves as a really interesting lesson in just how far we've come and how much motoring has changed, in good and bad ways. For all the hyperbole about continent crushing abilities I suspect you'd have a quieter, more comfortable, and more restful 500 mile trip in an automatic Ford Focus than in this car. Equally well many of the criticisms always levelled at the XJS do not ring true. Visibility is really quite good, turning circle it better than many large FWD cars, the width is modest by modern standards, and I have found it to be easy to park and easy to drive in city traffic.
That all sounds very negative, but I am merely being objective in assessing it. I love it, it's absolutely everything I hoped it would be, and I'm already making a list of small jobs to do before it goes away for it's new wings and front end respray in the spring.
Oh yeah, and an overdrive top gear would be great. 3000RPM at 80 is absurd for a car with nearly 500NM of torque from 1500RPM. Does make for amusing acceleration on the motorway though.
Great car, I have been following the original thread as CDG has been following mine on the restoration and subtle modernisation of my XJ Coupe which also has the 6.0 XJR-S engine in it. Regarding the gearbox I am in discussions at the moment with a company that produce a supplementary gearbox that you add in to the drivetrain and it in essence gives you either an underdrive or overdrive in each gear based on the original setup so in essence gives you a 6 speed box. If I get somewhere with it would you be interested in a joint purchase to maybe get a discount? Costs are around 2k I think but should be able to return a combined MPG of about 22mpg and a top gear cruise at 80 of around 2000rpm to make it much more relaxed. Let me know your initial thoughts
craigjm said:
Great car, I have been following the original thread as CDG has been following mine on the restoration and subtle modernisation of my XJ Coupe which also has the 6.0 XJR-S engine in it. Regarding the gearbox I am in discussions at the moment with a company that produce a supplementary gearbox that you add in to the drivetrain and it in essence gives you either an underdrive or overdrive in each gear based on the original setup so in essence gives you a 6 speed box. If I get somewhere with it would you be interested in a joint purchase to maybe get a discount? Costs are around 2k I think but should be able to return a combined MPG of about 22mpg and a top gear cruise at 80 of around 2000rpm to make it much more relaxed. Let me know your initial thoughts
Interesting. Like an old school OD unit. My initial concern would be it's ability to cope with the torque output, I guess they supply the US market so know a thing or two about that? I have no complaints about acceleration in any of the three gears really, but dropping the engine speed at cruise would be very nice. £2000 is a lot less than the cost of replacing the 3 speed auto with a 4 speed GM auto (generously offered by KWE for £8k or so) and corresponding change of diff to replicate what Jaguar did with the later 4 speed cars. There are a fair few people who've converted cars to manual but I think after the first hour of hilarious fun a manual would be totally undesirable in an XJS.Edited by dme123 on Monday 17th October 16:05
dme123 said:
craigjm said:
Great car, I have been following the original thread as CDG has been following mine on the restoration and subtle modernisation of my XJ Coupe which also has the 6.0 XJR-S engine in it. Regarding the gearbox I am in discussions at the moment with a company that produce a supplementary gearbox that you add in to the drivetrain and it in essence gives you either an underdrive or overdrive in each gear based on the original setup so in essence gives you a 6 speed box. If I get somewhere with it would you be interested in a joint purchase to maybe get a discount? Costs are around 2k I think but should be able to return a combined MPG of about 22mpg and a top gear cruise at 80 of around 2000rpm to make it much more relaxed. Let me know your initial thoughts
Interesting. Like an old school OD unit. My initial concern would be it's ability to cope with the torque output, I guess they supply the US market so know a thing or two about that? I have no complaints about acceleration in any of the three gears really, but dropping the engine speed at cruise would be very nice. £2000 is a lot less than the cost of replacing the 3 speed auto with a 4 speed GM auto (generously offered by KWE for £8k or so) and corresponding change of diff to replicate what Jaguar did with the later 4 speed cars. There are a fair few people who've converted cars to manual but I think after the first hour of hilarious fun a manual would be totally undesirable in an XJS.Edited by dme123 on Monday 17th October 16:05
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SywsCGnoXOU
Coatesy351 said:
Nice car OP Here is a video of the overdrive been fitted to a car and whats involved.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SywsCGnoXOU
I have found a supplier and fitter of the units in the UK just waiting to hear and then will share with the OP as he is running the same engine and transmission as mehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SywsCGnoXOU
I am almost tempted to say let me know when you wish to sell! But I know the ownership would probably be ruinous as well!
It looks like a great example and it is great to see a JaguarSport stay in the family
. Ideally I'd want a pre-facelift 6.0 V12 even if they are quite a rare old beast!
One of my favourite memories of these was seeing a Champagne XJR-S Celebration on Dutch plates at the Shell in Kenilworth. He spotted my then XJ40 XJR and we got chatting. He had the AJ6 Engineering TwinTorque (or TT) system on it. Man that car sung when he left the forecourts! Back in 2003 I think it was costing him around £25 for 120 miles, and of course fuel was cheaper!
It looks like a great example and it is great to see a JaguarSport stay in the family
. Ideally I'd want a pre-facelift 6.0 V12 even if they are quite a rare old beast!One of my favourite memories of these was seeing a Champagne XJR-S Celebration on Dutch plates at the Shell in Kenilworth. He spotted my then XJ40 XJR and we got chatting. He had the AJ6 Engineering TwinTorque (or TT) system on it. Man that car sung when he left the forecourts! Back in 2003 I think it was costing him around £25 for 120 miles, and of course fuel was cheaper!
craigjm said:
Dave, the company has got back to me. The gear splitters are 3 grand plus vat and fitting!!
Ooof, that's probably going to come in at £5 - £6k including vat and fitting. If it were a daily driver I'd consider it, but I'll consider the old school gearing to be part of the charm!With respect to the bork potential raised by SebringMan I might be deluding myself but I really don't think it's that much of a risk. Rust/bodywork could get ugly, but mechanically it is simple, robust, and at this stage the foibles and weaknesses are very well known. I think part of the terrifying reputation they have comes from people in the 80s/90s picking one up for the price of a 6 year old Sierra, and then backstreet garages not really knowing what they are doing and working up big labour bills on diagnosis, and then the extra cost due to the time taken due to poor accessibility. If you're used to 1980s/90s family car running costs then yes it is horrific, but compared to an XJ6 I'm not so sure.
These days with vast internet resources available for fault finding and part location, and a range of experienced and well advertised specialists available I really think it will be manageable. Worst case scenario the Zytek engine management system dies completely and I have to go for an aftermarket engine management system or buy one of the rare 2nd hand ECUs. Let's call that £2-3k in either case. I know people with 6 year old Mercs that have had more than one bill like that. Routine maintenance is not even wildly costly, replacing the coil, ignition amplifier, cap+rotor, and leads will probably cost £400 - £500 in parts and consume a happy Sunday in the garage. Probably only £100 - £200 more than for a 6 cylinder car and a bit of extra time.
FWIW fuel cost is around £70 - £80 for 250 miles.
I guess time will tell...
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