Anyone into cars but not credit?
Discussion
I think the manufacturers and banks are sowing themselves a massive future harvest at the moment.
Interest rates are zero, governments are printing money begging for credit to be given to the people. This does make leasing on credit very cheap and keeping money in the bank very unrewarding. So bit by bit everyone is ditching car ownership and leasing instead. They get used to a shiny new car every two years like people who were really really well off used to enjoy exclusively.
In short order most households are locked into two leased cars and any equity they had in owned cars has been spent on something else.
And the the interest rates go up. And up. And up. And that household with two leased cars is stuck because buying two second hand cars that are just £30k hatchbacks they've been used to at say five years of age and 60,000 miles is going to require £18,000 in cold hard cash that they don't have.
So it's either two bangers on the drive - what WILL the neighbours think - or keep leasing despite it being bloody expensive.
Ten years from now it would not surprise me in the slightest if base rates were 7%. All that ocean of printed money has to be sucked back into the central bank and destroyed and that's how it's done.
Interest rates are zero, governments are printing money begging for credit to be given to the people. This does make leasing on credit very cheap and keeping money in the bank very unrewarding. So bit by bit everyone is ditching car ownership and leasing instead. They get used to a shiny new car every two years like people who were really really well off used to enjoy exclusively.
In short order most households are locked into two leased cars and any equity they had in owned cars has been spent on something else.
And the the interest rates go up. And up. And up. And that household with two leased cars is stuck because buying two second hand cars that are just £30k hatchbacks they've been used to at say five years of age and 60,000 miles is going to require £18,000 in cold hard cash that they don't have.
So it's either two bangers on the drive - what WILL the neighbours think - or keep leasing despite it being bloody expensive.
Ten years from now it would not surprise me in the slightest if base rates were 7%. All that ocean of printed money has to be sucked back into the central bank and destroyed and that's how it's done.
Honeywell said:
I think the manufacturers and banks are sowing themselves a massive future harvest at the moment.
Interest rates are zero, governments are printing money begging for credit to be given to the people. This does make leasing on credit very cheap and keeping money in the bank very unrewarding. So bit by bit everyone is ditching car ownership and leasing instead. They get used to a shiny new car every two years like people who were really really well off used to enjoy exclusively.
In short order most households are locked into two leased cars and any equity they had in owned cars has been spent on something else.
And the the interest rates go up. And up. And up. And that household with two leased cars is stuck because buying two second hand cars that are just £30k hatchbacks they've been used to at say five years of age and 60,000 miles is going to require £18,000 in cold hard cash that they don't have.
So it's either two bangers on the drive - what WILL the neighbours think - or keep leasing despite it being bloody expensive.
Ten years from now it would not surprise me in the slightest if base rates were 7%. All that ocean of printed money has to be sucked back into the central bank and destroyed and that's how it's done.
The one thing that will stop this happening is manufacturing volume. Car making is hugely capital expensive, manufacturers (and partly governments) cannot afford for volumes to drop significantly.Interest rates are zero, governments are printing money begging for credit to be given to the people. This does make leasing on credit very cheap and keeping money in the bank very unrewarding. So bit by bit everyone is ditching car ownership and leasing instead. They get used to a shiny new car every two years like people who were really really well off used to enjoy exclusively.
In short order most households are locked into two leased cars and any equity they had in owned cars has been spent on something else.
And the the interest rates go up. And up. And up. And that household with two leased cars is stuck because buying two second hand cars that are just £30k hatchbacks they've been used to at say five years of age and 60,000 miles is going to require £18,000 in cold hard cash that they don't have.
So it's either two bangers on the drive - what WILL the neighbours think - or keep leasing despite it being bloody expensive.
Ten years from now it would not surprise me in the slightest if base rates were 7%. All that ocean of printed money has to be sucked back into the central bank and destroyed and that's how it's done.
During the Leman crisis at the end of 2008, sales volumes dropped off a cliff, therefore the EU dreamt up some Green Srappage Scheme to effectively keep new cars sales high. (in effect our taxes were being used to help drivers of old cars purchase new ones
)Jonno02 said:
Why buy a fast car when you can buy a slow, inexpensive car?
Why go to the cinema when you can pirate every film?
Why eat out at restaurants when you can make Morrisons own brand at home?
Why go to a bar when you can buy a crate for the house?
Why go on holidays when you can go to the beach in the UK?
Why go for a weekend hotel break when you can sleep in your own bed?
It's about the experience. Some people spend £500 on a car a month because they ENJOY the experience. These people may not go on many big holidays or each out that much, so they have disposable income for the experience they DO enjoy. Some people own a £500 shed for 5 years because motoring to them isn't that enjoyable. These people find going for meals and weekends away enjoyable, so they use their cash for that.
Stop trying to justify which camp you fall into by shouting at each other, because frankly, nobody gives a toss.
This.Why go to the cinema when you can pirate every film?
Why eat out at restaurants when you can make Morrisons own brand at home?
Why go to a bar when you can buy a crate for the house?
Why go on holidays when you can go to the beach in the UK?
Why go for a weekend hotel break when you can sleep in your own bed?
It's about the experience. Some people spend £500 on a car a month because they ENJOY the experience. These people may not go on many big holidays or each out that much, so they have disposable income for the experience they DO enjoy. Some people own a £500 shed for 5 years because motoring to them isn't that enjoyable. These people find going for meals and weekends away enjoyable, so they use their cash for that.
Stop trying to justify which camp you fall into by shouting at each other, because frankly, nobody gives a toss.
If whatever people do works for them then it really shouldn't be an issue for anyone else. New, old, financed, leased, bought outright, it really is no one elses business. People who try and use it to demonstrate how they're better than someone else just marks them out as plonkers.
Devil2575 said:
This.
If whatever people do works for them then it really shouldn't be an issue for anyone else. New, old, financed, leased, bought outright, it really is no one elses business. People who try and use it to demonstrate how they're better than someone else just marks them out as plonkers.
No...not This at all.If whatever people do works for them then it really shouldn't be an issue for anyone else. New, old, financed, leased, bought outright, it really is no one elses business. People who try and use it to demonstrate how they're better than someone else just marks them out as plonkers.
Isn't the whole point of an internet forum to interact with others? We put out there what we want to be discussed and should keep the things to ourselves that we wish to keep private.
The wider problem here is an implied, increasing level of personal debt which is bad where irresponsible sub-prime lending is concerned as we saw in 2008. That affects all of us.
Honeywell said:
I think the manufacturers and banks are sowing themselves a massive future harvest at the moment.
Interest rates are zero, governments are printing money begging for credit to be given to the people. This does make leasing on credit very cheap and keeping money in the bank very unrewarding. So bit by bit everyone is ditching car ownership and leasing instead. They get used to a shiny new car every two years like people who were really really well off used to enjoy exclusively.
In short order most households are locked into two leased cars and any equity they had in owned cars has been spent on something else.
And the the interest rates go up. And up. And up. And that household with two leased cars is stuck because buying two second hand cars that are just £30k hatchbacks they've been used to at say five years of age and 60,000 miles is going to require £18,000 in cold hard cash that they don't have.
So it's either two bangers on the drive - what WILL the neighbours think - or keep leasing despite it being bloody expensive.
Ten years from now it would not surprise me in the slightest if base rates were 7%. All that ocean of printed money has to be sucked back into the central bank and destroyed and that's how it's done.
Or it might be that while credit is so cheap people take advantage but when the price of borrowing rises people stop doing so.Interest rates are zero, governments are printing money begging for credit to be given to the people. This does make leasing on credit very cheap and keeping money in the bank very unrewarding. So bit by bit everyone is ditching car ownership and leasing instead. They get used to a shiny new car every two years like people who were really really well off used to enjoy exclusively.
In short order most households are locked into two leased cars and any equity they had in owned cars has been spent on something else.
And the the interest rates go up. And up. And up. And that household with two leased cars is stuck because buying two second hand cars that are just £30k hatchbacks they've been used to at say five years of age and 60,000 miles is going to require £18,000 in cold hard cash that they don't have.
So it's either two bangers on the drive - what WILL the neighbours think - or keep leasing despite it being bloody expensive.
Ten years from now it would not surprise me in the slightest if base rates were 7%. All that ocean of printed money has to be sucked back into the central bank and destroyed and that's how it's done.
Given that if interst rates rise to 7% it's going to be giving people's finances a kicking on their mortgage I suspect they may not be quite so worried about whether or not they have a new car on the drive. How much equity do people have in owned cars anyway? £30k hatchbacks? How many £30k hatchbacks are there out there?
When interest rates go up people stop spending, which is why the BoE have been keeping them low. They don't keep spending at the same rate because they need to keep up with the Jones'. As for people being stuck in expensive lease cars because they don't have any equity, somehow I can't see it.
wormus said:
No...not This at all.
Isn't the whole point of an internet forum to interact with others? We put out there what we want to be discussed and should keep the things to ourselves that we wish to keep private.
The wider problem here is an implied, increasing level of personal debt which is bad where irresponsible sub-prime lending is concerned as we saw in 2008. That affects all of us.
Really? How does someone leasing a car affect you?Isn't the whole point of an internet forum to interact with others? We put out there what we want to be discussed and should keep the things to ourselves that we wish to keep private.
The wider problem here is an implied, increasing level of personal debt which is bad where irresponsible sub-prime lending is concerned as we saw in 2008. That affects all of us.
I'd agree if we were talking about mortgages but were not, we're talking about things that can be easily repossessed and ultimately if a car maker goes bust because they've leased cars to too many people who can't afford them then it's not the end of the world. It isn't going to result in a recession.
I very much doubt that banks are exposed because of risky personal loans or credit card debt either.
As for who puts what out there, people on both sides just need to stop trying to justify whey they think their choices make them better than other people.
Zod said:
f you enjoyed the M3, then you didn't waste your money. If it just sat around, then you did.
What the pontificating idiots on these threads never understand is that, whether you buy outright or finance your car, you pay to own it, unless it is one of those few classics that appreciate (and then you won't drive it much, if at all, so you'll need another car (a depreciating one) anyway). You just need to decide how much you are prepared to pay to own the car.
What you seem unable to grasp is that in my case the fact that I was spending £628 on finance on an M3 was stupid! Yes I enjoyed the car and could pay for it with ease but it was still a stupid decision, one that made my family poorer than we should be.What the pontificating idiots on these threads never understand is that, whether you buy outright or finance your car, you pay to own it, unless it is one of those few classics that appreciate (and then you won't drive it much, if at all, so you'll need another car (a depreciating one) anyway). You just need to decide how much you are prepared to pay to own the car.
king love it.simonr100 said:
Zod said:
f you enjoyed the M3, then you didn't waste your money. If it just sat around, then you did.
What the pontificating idiots on these threads never understand is that, whether you buy outright or finance your car, you pay to own it, unless it is one of those few classics that appreciate (and then you won't drive it much, if at all, so you'll need another car (a depreciating one) anyway). You just need to decide how much you are prepared to pay to own the car.
What you seem unable to grasp is that in my case the fact that I was spending £628 on finance on an M3 was stupid! Yes I enjoyed the car and could pay for it with ease but it was still a stupid decision, one that made my family poorer than we should be.What the pontificating idiots on these threads never understand is that, whether you buy outright or finance your car, you pay to own it, unless it is one of those few classics that appreciate (and then you won't drive it much, if at all, so you'll need another car (a depreciating one) anyway). You just need to decide how much you are prepared to pay to own the car.
simonr100 said:
What you seem unable to grasp is that in my case the fact that I was spending £628 on finance on an M3 was stupid! Yes I enjoyed the car and could pay for it with ease but it was still a stupid decision, one that made my family poorer than we should be.
No one can grasp your case other than you. If your family suffered so you could be in a Porsche then yeah, you were stupid.
Zod said:
simonr100 said:
Zod said:
f you enjoyed the M3, then you didn't waste your money. If it just sat around, then you did.
What the pontificating idiots on these threads never understand is that, whether you buy outright or finance your car, you pay to own it, unless it is one of those few classics that appreciate (and then you won't drive it much, if at all, so you'll need another car (a depreciating one) anyway). You just need to decide how much you are prepared to pay to own the car.
What you seem unable to grasp is that in my case the fact that I was spending £628 on finance on an M3 was stupid! Yes I enjoyed the car and could pay for it with ease but it was still a stupid decision, one that made my family poorer than we should be.What the pontificating idiots on these threads never understand is that, whether you buy outright or finance your car, you pay to own it, unless it is one of those few classics that appreciate (and then you won't drive it much, if at all, so you'll need another car (a depreciating one) anyway). You just need to decide how much you are prepared to pay to own the car.
And TBH, who knows. If you hadn't bought the M3 you could have been in a worse financial position now than you are. Life is funny like that.
CYMR0 said:
Sunderland I think.
Been done. 
I'd have paid off a six figure chunk of the mortgage if I hadn't bought my car. My wife would probably say that's what I should have done, but I work hard, have three kids and not much spare time, so the enjoyment I get from driving that car is important to me, as are the holidays and the wine. I'm lucky and those things are luxuries. I could save all the money not needed for day-to-day living and perhaps retire earlier, but I'd rather have pleasures now and later. I'd be pissed off to wait until I was 60 before buying an expensive car and find that I was somehow too old to enjoy it (I fully intend to be enjoying cars whenI'm 60 FAOD).
Well, Audemars is always telling us how much money his tenants pay in London rent and SimonR100 is always complaining about his family being poorer than they could be, whilst pointing out he has an MP4-12C and a DB9 so possibly one of those 2?
TBH, after reading their posts over the past few weeks they're welcome to it.
TBH, after reading their posts over the past few weeks they're welcome to it.
Biker's Nemesis said:
OK, so. Who's the richest on this thread then?
Clearly it must be those people who chose to drive some old knackered Ford worth a few hundred and live in some rented house but know they are actually financially more canny and better off than anyone who leases a car?Cotty said:
twoblacklines said:
So I just had a friend give me stick because I don't have a 2016 car.
I drive a 1992 BMW, it is legitimately a classic car, no one has ever mentioned age being a problem. If everyone drove new cars there would be no classic scene. Imagine a world without classic cars 
Each to their own. I own 5 vehicles and the newest is 15 years old and oldest is 49 (though I'm going to look at an 11yo motorbike on Saturday) . I have bought cars on tick before but I quite like my older fleet
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