Anyone into cars but not credit?

[anonymous-user]

NickCQ said:

For sure, not everyone is breaking out MS Excel to make these decisions, but some people are, and the M4 couple may have it figured out for themselves.

Or indeed they might not exist.

Or they might be relocating and company funded

Or they might have sold their house and are waiting for their next move

Or as you say they might have a financial setup which simply suits them right now

What is so objectionable about the kind of thing Audemars says is that there is an implicit view that owning an M4 and renting a property somehow makes them worthy of derision, despite not having provided (or maybe not even knowing) anything else about the specific situation whatsoever.

Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 24th October 11:30

[anonymous-user]

funkyrobot said:

You forgot to mention your salary, the cost of the PCP (in real terms over the period), the make and model of the car and how long the deal is for.

Then we can judge if you really are being a fool or not.

You missed off full disclosure as to his retirement provisions

[e21Mark]

daemon said:

e21Mark said:

Sorry, yes it's a lease which she pays for herself and I don't begrudge her spending her money on whatever she chooses. It was more just the change in general attitudes toward finance. (and I'm just including lease for the purpose of this conversation) I understand your point about moving metal but it does seem that priorities have changed and have now, pay later is the norm.

She's not financing it. She's renting it.

If it's a means to an end - allowing her to have safe reliable transport for a predictable monthly amount - then I don't see the problem personally.

If she were my daughter I'd be happier with that than sending her out every morning in some £500 st heap with low reliability and safety standards from maybe 15 years ago.

There's no problem. Simply considering changes of attitude towards spending a higher percentage of a weekly income on a car. (whether leased or purchased)

Devil2575 said:

e21Mark said:

My 19 year old niece has a brand new Renault hatchback of some description and pays about £180 per month. When I was 19 I drove a MK3 Cortina that cost £375 I think? I don't think I knew anyone of my age that could afford a 3 year old car, let alone a new one. Is it just too easy to get credit nowadays or is it down to a sense of entitlement that many appear to display?

What sense of entitlement?

Your niece has a brand new car because she earns enough money to be able to afford the monthly repayments. How do you think a "sense of entitlement" would get her a new car?

Why is the fact that she has a brand new car a problem for you? I could understand if you'd said that she was struggling to make ends meet but it would appear that you have a problem with it simply because you couldn't get one at her age.

Calm down dear. (it was a rhetorical question) I don't have a problem at all and begrudge my niece nothing, It's a forum and I was simply considering the change in circumstance / attitude to car ownership for youngsters and the amount they are willing to pay.

[nickfrog]

Yes. Amusing when you realise that Audemars provably doesn't have a pot to piss in.

[NickCQ]

nickfrog said:

Yes. Amusing when you realise that Audemars provably doesn't have a pot to piss in.

Provably or probably?

[anonymous-user]

nickfrog said:

Yes. Amusing when you realise that Audemars provably doesn't have a pot to piss in.

Don't be silly

He earned a six figure sum shortly after graduation

He has owned several Lamborghini cars but doesn't like them anymore

His daily is a limited edition super at which despite daily use is appreciating in value

He fixes his own cars

He is the person so many of us would like to be.

[Quickmoose]

So PCPs and their ilk are not a stupid way of getting a car... the people using them are not stupid or financially or educationally devoid of sense. It's just a modern financial product created by an industry/industries that we can fully rely on to come up with sound protection/values and returns for all.
No-one has to justify anything, we only have one life....what could possibly go wrong.
When I was a kid I bought a cheap car outright.
As soon as I got a decent job I took out a loan and bought a less cheap car outright
Today if I were a kid I'd be renting a brand new car....and as a kid who loves cars, that idea appeals and I'd have NO problem getting my man-calculator out to fully justify it...

So there's no down side to this change in fortune and business model..... right?

[Composite Guru]

I like to own newer cars so choose to buy a car on finance rather than removing a whole chunk of money from my savings to pay for a depreciating asset.

I accept that I'm losing money every month paying for a car but at least I know what I have in my savings is going up to compensate a bit for the loss.

Running a banger is not me so I'll always be in this situation which I'm happy to accept.

[Devil2575]

e21Mark said:

Devil2575 said:

e21Mark said:

My 19 year old niece has a brand new Renault hatchback of some description and pays about £180 per month. When I was 19 I drove a MK3 Cortina that cost £375 I think? I don't think I knew anyone of my age that could afford a 3 year old car, let alone a new one. Is it just too easy to get credit nowadays or is it down to a sense of entitlement that many appear to display?

What sense of entitlement?

Your niece has a brand new car because she earns enough money to be able to afford the monthly repayments. How do you think a "sense of entitlement" would get her a new car?

Why is the fact that she has a brand new car a problem for you? I could understand if you'd said that she was struggling to make ends meet but it would appear that you have a problem with it simply because you couldn't get one at her age.

Calm down dear. (it was a rhetorical question) I don't have a problem at all and begrudge my niece nothing, It's a forum and I was simply considering the change in circumstance / attitude to car ownership for youngsters and the amount they are willing to pay.

I wasn't "Not calm" but thanks for your concern

It came across as being derogatory rather than simply exploring to be quite honest.

What proportion of her income is she spending? Do you know what else she is spending her income on? When I was her age I was pissing half my monthly income up the wall.

[gizlaroc]

Audemars said:

Really?

I guess some people or shall I say most are just clueless and can't be helped.

On another note, Ive just let one of my properties this weekend for £2750 per month to a couple with a new M4.

Brilliant, he's back!!!!



Every estate agent I know rents.

Decent houses round my way are far cheaper to rent than buy.
A nice place near me was up for £850,000 recently, now on the rental market at £1900 a month and they they would take £1750 for a 3 year agreement. How much would that be as a mortgage? £3k a month interest only? You would probably have to put £300,000 in to get an interest only mortgage to match the rentals.

Round here you can buy two flats for £300k that would give you a £1200-1400 a month return.

So maybe your tenants who rent off you and have an M4 aren't as dumb as you make out?

[AshBurrows]

gizlaroc said:

So maybe your tenants who rent off you and have an M4 aren't as dumb as you make out?

Well, they're fictional for starters!

[iphonedyou]

stupidbutkeen said:

pretty sure its spot on tbh, fuel,oil insurance,electric all more expensive in n.ireland than the mainland uk

food the last time I checked was also more expensive. something to do with the extra costs of getting the product across the water and into a smaller market.

I would be happy to be proved wrong but I have just got in from work and need to goto bed now to head to galway area for a few days tomorrow.

You said the only thing cheaper in Belfast is property, and that everything else [for the most part] is more expensive.

Every cost of living survey ever produced will contradict you on that.

You can pick specific examples, I suppose, but even where true they don't support the original assertion that everything is more expensive.

Fuel isn't, for example. This week Northern Ireland is the only part of the UK with average prices of petrol in the £1.13s and not above.

http://www.forecourttrader.co.uk/fuel_prices_retai...

Oil certainly isn't - by some margin the cheapest region of the UK.

https://www.valueoils.com/heating-oil-prices/

Food wasn't - apologies for the 2010 dataset (govt PDF) but it's the clearest representation I could find without spending too much time searching. This may have changed, but I don't see why?

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=...

Appreciate you may not want to download a PDF from a forum link - google 'relative regional consumer price levels 2010' if you prefer.

Insurance and electric I'd give you, though. Electric is a function of the frankly utterly dysfunctional market (as was), and I'd also throw in car leasing costs - a function of the comparatively tiny market.

[gizlaroc]

AshBurrows said:

Well, they're fictional for starters!

Haha. Oh yeah.

[okgo]

gizlaroc said:

Every estate agent I know rents.

Its because they can't afford to buy

[gizlaroc]

okgo said:

Its because they can't afford to buy

Not after they have leased their Range Rovers and Porsches anyway.

[Audemars]

The sheer stupidity of some of the posts is no longer surprising given the demographic here.

As for a £850k house generating a rental of only £1750, that is very far from the norm and the landlord in that case is not financially astute.

Yes I expect all EAs to rent because they probably earn £25k per year and have an Audi on lease.

[NickCQ]

Audemars said:

As for a £850k house generating a rental of only £1750, that is very far from the norm and the landlord in that case is not financially astute.

2.5% gross rental yield seems a little skinny, I grant you, but the data supports it for more 'exclusive' London postcodes (not that you'd get much for £850k in any of them), link below. A figure around 3 - 3.5% may be more reasonable, and as I mentioned above, without expectations of capital growth there's very little financial advantage to buying rather than renting at those levels.

http://www.londonpropertywatch.co.uk/average_renta...

Actually, looks like you have to go pretty far out (i.e. where I live!) to get over 3.5%

https://www.portico.com/yields

[nickfrog]

Audemars said:

The sheer stupidity of some of the posts is no longer surprising given the demographic here.

[nickfrog]

Quickmoose said:

So PCPs and their ilk are not a stupid way of getting a car... the people using them are not stupid or financially or educationally devoid of sense. It's just a modern financial product created by an industry/industries that we can fully rely on to come up with sound protection/values and returns for all.
No-one has to justify anything, we only have one life....what could possibly go wrong.
When I was a kid I bought a cheap car outright.
As soon as I got a decent job I took out a loan and bought a less cheap car outright
Today if I were a kid I'd be renting a brand new car....and as a kid who loves cars, that idea appeals and I'd have NO problem getting my man-calculator out to fully justify it...

So there's no down side to this change in fortune and business model..... right?

No need for justification. Shades of grey...

Some pcp/deals are terrible, some are great.
Some cash deals are terrible, some are great.

I'll give you an example :

I felt that one of our cars was cheaper leased than owned. I leased it.
I felt that one of our cars was cheaper owned than leased. I bought it.

[daemon]

okgo said:

daemon said:

And what nonsense that is.

lol. So official numbers are released and you don't believe them? But you won't believe assumption either? Which is it?

You said there was a report extract that said if people had £1000 savings the bankruptcy rate would go down significantly.

You would need to have an awful lot more in financial assets to stop going bankrupt than £1000

Hence why it's nonsense.

HTH