Anyone into cars but not credit?

[daemon]

gizlaroc said:

That is the conclusion I am coming to as well.

Wasnt there a guy on another one of these threads who had a similar prejudiced view and bought all his new cars with cash and was quite sniffy about those who "had" to rent, then it turned out he'd rented his house for 20 odd years, and his real beef was with his brother who he believed was crap with money but had just leased a new Audi A4?

I saw another thread on MSE a while ago where a bloke laughed at those who took out loans / PCP deals to buy cars, as he, personally only ever bought with a combination of cash and 0% finance. It turns out the car he'd bought - a Peugeot 308 CC 2.0 Diesel - and had got 0% finance on, he had paid the £25,000 LIST PRICE of the car after he cannily took their 0% finance offer. He went a bit quiet when someone pointed out he could have got the car for £6,000 less off a broker....

[twoblacklines]

daemon said:

+1

I dont lease for similar reasons, however i can see that for a lot of people it makes sense.

Can't you also see that for a lot of people, it makes no sense, yet they still do it anyway?

[Mr2Mike]

DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.

Unless you are living in a two bed st hole without two pennies to rub together at the end of the month then nothing in his post applies to you, so why do you have an issue with it? I suggest people read his post again; it's describing a set of (likely quite common) circumstances where taking out a large lease/PCP deal is simply stupid, and shows a complete lack of foresight or ambition. It does not mean that leasing/PCP is always a bad choice in every circumstance.

[daemon]

twoblacklines said:

daemon said:

+1

I dont lease for similar reasons, however i can see that for a lot of people it makes sense.

Can't you also see that for a lot of people, it makes no sense, yet they still do it anyway?

Who are you to define what makes sense for others?

If someones prerequisites are a set monthly payment that they can budget for, a comprehensive warranty for the duration, and no long term commitment to the car, then that can make perfect sense for their situation?

Lets not forget, you can lease a brand new car these days for £99 a month upwards. Thats a no brainer for some people if they need something cheap, safe and reliable for say, ferrying their kids about in, or commuting.

Whilst you or i might say, well you can buy something quite reasonable for £1,000 cash, it doesnt necessarily follow that that view must be enforced upon others, or make them "wrong".

Nor does it follow that they will suffer financial bankruptcy for doing so at a particular point in their life.

Most people go on to live happy fulfilled lives. Sorry if that has not been the case for you.

Edited by daemon on Tuesday 25th October 18:50

[okgo]

daemon said:

+1

I dont lease for similar reasons, however i can see that for a lot of people it makes sense.

Because most people don't have any money.

As the facts have told us.

What other method are they going to use to buy a car? Work in the dealership washing cups to pay it off?

[stuart_83]

I'm still undecided about the whole PCP thing... I've been tempted by an Octavia VRS recently on PCP, but only because it was at 0%.

I've been driving around in 8-10 year old cars for the last 8 years or so, so I don't miss the new car thing all that much.

I can fully see the appeal of driving around in something new and shiny, and being able to change it every three years, while only having to "top up" the deposit slightly when changing.

The way I've looked at it, in a specific case, is that if I buy a new VRS on PCP it'll cost me £6k down (max I can put down), plus about £240/month for three years. Then I'll still owe roughly £8k. Or carry on paying £240/month plus a slight deposit contribution and change to a new car.

Alternatively I can buy one that's two years old having covered 10k miles for £17kish. I can put down £8k in cash, plus my current car (£2k) and borrow £7k at 3.3% (£204/month) ... At the end of the term I own the car.

Both have their pros and cons and genuinely can't decide which route to take.

[tuffer]

twoblacklines said:

daemon said:

+1

I dont lease for similar reasons, however i can see that for a lot of people it makes sense.

Can't you also see that for a lot of people, it makes no sense, yet they still do it anyway?

I can, I can also appreciate that it is their money and their choice. Who knows, by having a nice shiny new car it might it inspire them to work harder, better themselves and attain a higher position in their chosen profession and then they can earn more money to spend on more nice things hence driving the economy forward, creating more jobs, wealth and opportunities. But then again, they may end up bankrupt, st happens.

[daemon]

Mr2Mike said:

Nanook said:

What truth?

We have a car on PCP. It's my wife's car. I'm not a big fan of financing things like that, so I bought my car outright. I know how much her car costs each month, and how many months we'll have it for. Who actually cares about anything else? I know exactly how much it'll cost us over the period, that's all that really matters.

Unless you are living in a two bed st hole without two pennies to rub together at the end of the month then nothing in his post applies to you, so why do you have an issue with it? I suggest people read his post again; it's describing a set of (likely quite common) circumstances where taking out a large lease/PCP deal is simply stupid, and shows a complete lack of foresight or ambition. It does not mean that leasing/PCP is always a bad choice in every circumstance.

What he actually said was (of people who were leasing) - "If you want to live hand to mouth when you slightly older and reside in a st hole neighbourhood then go knock yourself out."

Thats a fairly broad brush statement, is it not?

[daemon]

okgo said:

daemon said:

+1

I dont lease for similar reasons, however i can see that for a lot of people it makes sense.

Because most people don't have any money.

As the facts have told us.

What other method are they going to use to buy a car? Work in the dealership washing cups to pay it off?

Most people need transport and if pushed, could raise £500-£1000 to buy a car if needs be. However, what does that get them? Some old thing that might get them through several months before springing a bill on them or breaking down?

If leasing a cheap new car allows someone to get to work safely and reliably and in a cost controlled manner, then surely that makes sense?

As i said earlier of my niece - buying a new Corsa on PCP was an enabler for her. She was able to commute further safely, and got a better paying job and has since had a couple of promotions.

Whilst it might be easy to think of people taking PCP / lease deals as wanting something they otherwise cant afford, a lot of the time its a means to an end.

[daemon]

tuffer said:

twoblacklines said:

daemon said:

+1

I dont lease for similar reasons, however i can see that for a lot of people it makes sense.

Can't you also see that for a lot of people, it makes no sense, yet they still do it anyway?

I can, I can also appreciate that it is their money and their choice. Who knows, by having a nice shiny new car it might it inspire them to work harder, better themselves and attain a higher position in their chosen profession and then they can earn more money to spend on more nice things hence driving the economy forward, creating more jobs, wealth and opportunities. But then again, they may end up bankrupt, st happens.

It might "enable" them to work harder, for more money in a better job perhaps further away than they could otherwise commute.

[J4CKO]

My problem with PCP's and Leasing, like Gizlaroc is the interest, not any interest on the payments, just I would lose interest in whatever I am paying for and it would irk the st out of me paying for it once I was bored of it and the not being able to mess with it would annoy me as well, can totally see how it works for so many though.

[Granfondo]

daemon said:

gizlaroc said:

That is the conclusion I am coming to as well.

Wasnt there a guy on another one of these threads who had a similar prejudiced view and bought all his new cars with cash and was quite sniffy about those who "had" to rent, then it turned out he'd rented his house for 20 odd years, and his real beef was with his brother who he believed was crap with money but had just leased a new Audi A4?

I saw another thread on MSE a while ago where a bloke laughed at those who took out loans / PCP deals to buy cars, as he, personally only ever bought with a combination of cash and 0% finance. It turns out the car he'd bought - a Peugeot 308 CC 2.0 Diesel - and had got 0% finance on, he had paid the £25,000 LIST PRICE of the car after he cannily took their 0% finance offer. He went a bit quiet when someone pointed out he could have got the car for £6,000 less off a broker....

Wasn't there someone on here telling us that every estate agent he knew rented because you can get a better house to live in than you can afford to own!
A bit like PCP/lease for a lot of people!

[daemon]

Granfondo said:

daemon said:

gizlaroc said:

That is the conclusion I am coming to as well.

Wasnt there a guy on another one of these threads who had a similar prejudiced view and bought all his new cars with cash and was quite sniffy about those who "had" to rent, then it turned out he'd rented his house for 20 odd years, and his real beef was with his brother who he believed was crap with money but had just leased a new Audi A4?

I saw another thread on MSE a while ago where a bloke laughed at those who took out loans / PCP deals to buy cars, as he, personally only ever bought with a combination of cash and 0% finance. It turns out the car he'd bought - a Peugeot 308 CC 2.0 Diesel - and had got 0% finance on, he had paid the £25,000 LIST PRICE of the car after he cannily took their 0% finance offer. He went a bit quiet when someone pointed out he could have got the car for £6,000 less off a broker....

Wasn't there someone on here telling us that every estate agent he knew rented because you can get a better house to live in than you can afford to own!
A bit like PCP/lease for a lot of people!

I do remember that, yes.

The only estate agent i know has a huge big 6,000 sq foot house on its own grounds built on the profits of all the houses he rented out and sold on over the years.

Everyones particular circumstances are different.

[NickCQ]

Granfondo said:

Wasn't there someone on here telling us that every estate agent he knew rented because you can get a better house to live in than you can afford to own!
A bit like PCP/lease for a lot of people!

I didnt say the estate agent bit, but I did make the argument that tight central London rental yields (~2-2.5%) make it cheaper to rent than own in some of the nicer bits.

[gizlaroc]

Granfondo said:

Wasn't there someone on here telling us that every estate agent he knew rented because you can get a better house to live in than you can afford to own!
A bit like PCP/lease for a lot of people!

No, I said all of the estate agents I know rent the house they live in as they get a much nicer house for a lot less outlay.



What I don't remember if I said was they also own multiple properties that they rent out, just they are much cheaper to buy and give much better returns.

I am not talking about the people working there, I am taking about the business owners. I haven't got a clue whether their staff/team do similar.

[gizlaroc]

By the way, I am about to do the same.

Doing the maths it is a no brainer for me.

[daemon]

gizlaroc said:

Granfondo said:

Wasn't there someone on here telling us that every estate agent he knew rented because you can get a better house to live in than you can afford to own!
A bit like PCP/lease for a lot of people!

What I don't remember if I said was they also own multiple properties that they rent out, just they are much cheaper to buy and give much better returns.

I am not talking about the people working there, I am taking about the business owners. I haven't got a clue whether their staff/team do similar.

Thats in line with my experience. Theres probably nobody better placed to snap up a cheap house to rent out than an estate agent.

[BigLion]

Mr2Mike said:

Nanook said:

What truth?

We have a car on PCP. It's my wife's car. I'm not a big fan of financing things like that, so I bought my car outright. I know how much her car costs each month, and how many months we'll have it for. Who actually cares about anything else? I know exactly how much it'll cost us over the period, that's all that really matters.

Unless you are living in a two bed st hole without two pennies to rub together at the end of the month then nothing in his post applies to you, so why do you have an issue with it? I suggest people read his post again; it's describing a set of (likely quite common) circumstances where taking out a large lease/PCP deal is simply stupid, and shows a complete lack of foresight or ambition. It does not mean that leasing/PCP is always a bad choice in every circumstance.

Exactly, but these guys are so hooked on their debt fuelled cars they are unable to see clearly.

Let's take a BMW M4 lease as an example - so all the clever debt hungry people on here, what's the cost over 3 years plus the initial payment? Say 8k as initial and then £800 quid a month - so what is that in total over 3 years?

Someone please put the answer down.

Then rinse and repeat over a cycle of 3 car purchases over a 9 year period and put that figure down too (so we have a total 9 year cost)

Then tell me that is a sensible decision to take when you're renting.

[Granfondo]

daemon said:

gizlaroc said:

Granfondo said:

Wasn't there someone on here telling us that every estate agent he knew rented because you can get a better house to live in than you can afford to own!
A bit like PCP/lease for a lot of people!

What I don't remember if I said was they also own multiple properties that they rent out, just they are much cheaper to buy and give much better returns.

I am not talking about the people working there, I am taking about the business owners. I haven't got a clue whether their staff/team do similar.

Thats in line with my experience. Theres probably nobody better placed to snap up a cheap house to rent out than an estate agent.

Even in one of the most unethical industries going this I thought was a definite

Edited by Granfondo on Tuesday 25th October 19:35

[daemon]

BigLion said:

so all the clever debt hungry people on here..

No one on here is debt hungry.

Sometimes leasing is better or no worse than buying the car new and selling 3 years down the line.

Sometimes it isnt. In fact probably a lot of the time it isnt.

That doesnt make

(a) all leases bad
(b) people who lease debt hungry or stupid.