Anyone into cars but not credit?

[Granfondo]

daemon said:

BigLion said:

So you buy a base m4 - ok let's go with that example. So say approx 10 grand a year to OWN (NOT RUN) - let's assume higher rate tax payer, NI contributions etc. - so very simplistically let's call that £20k of gross salary.

Say someone is earning 50k a year - they almost have to work 6 months of each year to simply pay for the car. Or put another way, they can take 6 months career break a year in place of having a M4.

9 years and 100k later - you have no equity in any car or property if renting.

Yes you can top and tail the figures - but the reality is if you guys think that is a great idea, then please carry on and get your next hit of debt. I'm sure the finance houses staff love you when bonus time comes around !!!

I personally dont think its a good idea. Likewise i dont think buying a new M4 on that sort of wage is a good idea either.

I certainly wouldnt advocate either.

I am sure there are exceptional circumstances why some people "might" chose to lease one on that salary or splurge £60K of their own hard earned / inheritance / windfall on one, but its not sustainable on that sort of salary.

So how come with the average salary being £26k there is so many £60k plus cars on the road?

[BigLion]

daemon said:

BigLion said:

So you buy a base m4 - ok let's go with that example. So say approx 10 grand a year to OWN (NOT RUN) - let's assume higher rate tax payer, NI contributions etc. - so very simplistically let's call that £20k of gross salary.

Say someone is earning 50k a year - they almost have to work 6 months of each year to simply pay for the car. Or put another way, they can take 6 months career break a year in place of having a M4.

9 years and 100k later - you have no equity in any car or property if renting.

Yes you can top and tail the figures - but the reality is if you guys think that is a great idea, then please carry on and get your next hit of debt. I'm sure the finance houses staff love you when bonus time comes around !!!

I personally dont think its a good idea. Likewise i dont think buying a new M4 on that sort of wage is a good idea either.

I certainly wouldnt advocate either.

I am sure there are exceptional circumstances why some people "might" chose to lease one on that salary or splurge £60K of their own hard earned / inheritance / windfall on one, but its not sustainable on that sort of salary.

...but it's only £700 on the monthlies...Init?

[daemon]

Granfondo said:

daemon said:

BigLion said:

So you buy a base m4 - ok let's go with that example. So say approx 10 grand a year to OWN (NOT RUN) - let's assume higher rate tax payer, NI contributions etc. - so very simplistically let's call that £20k of gross salary.

Say someone is earning 50k a year - they almost have to work 6 months of each year to simply pay for the car. Or put another way, they can take 6 months career break a year in place of having a M4.

9 years and 100k later - you have no equity in any car or property if renting.

Yes you can top and tail the figures - but the reality is if you guys think that is a great idea, then please carry on and get your next hit of debt. I'm sure the finance houses staff love you when bonus time comes around !!!

I personally dont think its a good idea. Likewise i dont think buying a new M4 on that sort of wage is a good idea either.

I certainly wouldnt advocate either.

I am sure there are exceptional circumstances why some people "might" chose to lease one on that salary or splurge £60K of their own hard earned / inheritance / windfall on one, but its not sustainable on that sort of salary.

So how come with the average salary being £26k there is so many £60k plus cars on the road?

Because its not the people on £26K leasing / buying / financing them?

This doesnt seem difficult to me?

[SWoll]

nickfrog said:

ChasW said:

It is clearly about camps.

No it's not, it's about rationale.

I own one of my car - I lease another one : please tell me what camp I am in. Serious question.

Same here, I'm even more confused.

I lease my wife's car as it's easily affordable and costs me no more than the depreciation would over 3 years. (C Class Sport)
My car is a company car as prefer the lack of hassle these days. (A6 Avant Black Edition)
I'm saving in order to buy a weekend toy as my company car is fantastic for the daily grind but doesn't offer much in the way of fun. (Elise S2 R)

I also save money every month and pay into a decent pension.

[daemon]

BigLion said:

daemon said:

BigLion said:

So you buy a base m4 - ok let's go with that example. So say approx 10 grand a year to OWN (NOT RUN) - let's assume higher rate tax payer, NI contributions etc. - so very simplistically let's call that £20k of gross salary.

Say someone is earning 50k a year - they almost have to work 6 months of each year to simply pay for the car. Or put another way, they can take 6 months career break a year in place of having a M4.

9 years and 100k later - you have no equity in any car or property if renting.

Yes you can top and tail the figures - but the reality is if you guys think that is a great idea, then please carry on and get your next hit of debt. I'm sure the finance houses staff love you when bonus time comes around !!!

I personally dont think its a good idea. Likewise i dont think buying a new M4 on that sort of wage is a good idea either.

I certainly wouldnt advocate either.

I am sure there are exceptional circumstances why some people "might" chose to lease one on that salary or splurge £60K of their own hard earned / inheritance / windfall on one, but its not sustainable on that sort of salary.

...but it's only £700 on the monthlies...Init?

If you say so.

However i dont know ANYONE (a) who talks like that and (b) splurges that amount of money on a car with such a disproportionately low salary.

If, of course, you have any actual evidence to support what you are saying, as opposed to it just being a prejudiced view, please feel free to share the evidence.

[Granfondo]

daemon said:

Granfondo said:

daemon said:

BigLion said:

So you buy a base m4 - ok let's go with that example. So say approx 10 grand a year to OWN (NOT RUN) - let's assume higher rate tax payer, NI contributions etc. - so very simplistically let's call that £20k of gross salary.

Say someone is earning 50k a year - they almost have to work 6 months of each year to simply pay for the car. Or put another way, they can take 6 months career break a year in place of having a M4.

9 years and 100k later - you have no equity in any car or property if renting.

Yes you can top and tail the figures - but the reality is if you guys think that is a great idea, then please carry on and get your next hit of debt. I'm sure the finance houses staff love you when bonus time comes around !!!

I personally dont think its a good idea. Likewise i dont think buying a new M4 on that sort of wage is a good idea either.

I certainly wouldnt advocate either.

I am sure there are exceptional circumstances why some people "might" chose to lease one on that salary or splurge £60K of their own hard earned / inheritance / windfall on one, but its not sustainable on that sort of salary.

So how come with the average salary being £26k there is so many £60k plus cars on the road?

Because its not the people on £26K leasing / buying / financing them?

This doesnt seem difficult to me?

So you have said £71k is not sustainable to lease/PCP and figures by DA about the numbers of people on £100k it's fairly obvious that there is a lot of people on £71k or less cutting about in rented cars you say they can't afford!

[daemon]

SWoll said:

Same here, I'm even more confused.

I lease my wife's car as it's easily affordable and costs me no more than the depreciation would over 3 years. (C Class Sport)
My car is a company car as prefer the lack of hassle these days. (A6 Avant Black Edition)
I'm saving in order to buy a weekend toy as my company car is fantastic for the daily grind but doesn't offer much in the way of fun. (Elise S2 R)

I also save money every month and pay into a decent pension.

Clearly you ARE confused.

How can you POSSIBLY lease a car AND save every month AND pay into a decent pension.

Its almost as if you have a decent income??

[ChasW]

daemon said:

ChasW said:

In reality there is probably prejudice on both sides but the responses that fall into category 2 would warrant creating a Kindergarten PH for those who need to grow up and learn to behave and post like adults.

I havent seen any prejudice on the "side" of those people who believe that leasing / PCP deals "can" be an effective way of driving a car.

That same "side" also are merely saying that there are many options available and that people can look at those options and pick the best one to suit their particular circumstance.

I think thats a reasonable stance and not prejudiced. If people want to buy cars with cash, then cool. Heck, i do it myself at times too.

We are not debt hungry monsters, merely people who advocate looking at all the options.

The prejudice almost exclusively comes from those who view those who buy with anything other than cash as "debt hungry" and "stupid" and only interested in the shiny shiny and are likely to end up bankrupt and destitute.

THAT is a prejudiced viewpoint - all I and others have done is to push back on those prejudices and challenge peoples prejudiced views.

Then you are in category 3 or 4.

As for prejudice on one side only; not necessarily so. Read the OP's opening post. He implies the opposite. I think you are undermining your own position in believing that it's unilateral.

In any event whatever position taken, why not be civil and adult in responses was my other point. Not aimed at you personally.

[Granfondo]

daemon said:

If you say so.

However i dont know ANYONE (a) who talks like that and (b) splurges that amount of money on a car with such a disproportionately low salary.

If, of course, you have any actual evidence to support what you are saying, as opposed to it just being a prejudiced view, please feel free to share the evidence.

So you think that everyone in the £50k plus bracket of cars is earning more than £72k?

Deluded or what?

[ChasW]

SWoll said:

nickfrog said:

ChasW said:

It is clearly about camps.

No it's not, it's about rationale.

I own one of my car - I lease another one : please tell me what camp I am in. Serious question.

Same here, I'm even more confused.

I lease my wife's car as it's easily affordable and costs me no more than the depreciation would over 3 years. (C Class Sport)
My car is a company car as prefer the lack of hassle these days. (A6 Avant Black Edition)
I'm saving in order to buy a weekend toy as my company car is fantastic for the daily grind but doesn't offer much in the way of fun. (Elise S2 R)

I also save money every month and pay into a decent pension.

About camps in the thread. I will most likely be in the same boat as you shortly. Own one, rent one. Read the thread from beginning to end and you should see the same two basic points of argument. Alternatively read what you read and interpret as it suits you.

[Granfondo]

daemon said:

Granfondo said:

RSK21 said:

Granfondo said:

Coz it gets you into cars you can't afford to own!
PCP/lease not HP which at least gets you there in the end!

Where do you stand on 0% pcp ?

Further up the thread Daemon had a story about 0% deal but you could get £6k discount so the guy was a mug to use the PCP! HTH.

He didnt. I said he used a 0% finance deal couple with cash to buy the car. It was an HP deal.

He thought just because it was 0% he was getting a great deal. Forgetting to "do his homework" on the price of it...

daemon said:

I saw another thread on MSE a while ago where a bloke laughed at those who took out loans / PCP deals to buy cars, as he, personally only ever [u]bought[/u] with a combination of cash and 0% finance. It turns out the car he'd bought - a Peugeot 308 CC 2.0 Diesel - and had got 0% finance on, he had paid the £25,000 LIST PRICE of the car after he cannily took their 0% finance offer. He went a bit quiet when someone pointed out he could have got the car for £6,000 less off a broker....

Edited by daemon on Tuesday 25th October 20:54

Would it have made a difference if it was PCP?

[Devil2575]

Granfondo said:

So how come with the average salary being £26k there is so many £60k plus cars on the road?

Are they?

What proportion of cars on the road are £60k plus cars?

A quick look at Autotrader shows that out of the 16000 BMWs 3 years old or newer for sale only about 500 are M cars.

There are also 1 million odd people on 100k +

Edited by Devil2575 on Tuesday 25th October 21:16

[daemon]

Granfondo said:

daemon said:

Granfondo said:

RSK21 said:

Granfondo said:

Coz it gets you into cars you can't afford to own!
PCP/lease not HP which at least gets you there in the end!

Where do you stand on 0% pcp ?

Further up the thread Daemon had a story about 0% deal but you could get £6k discount so the guy was a mug to use the PCP! HTH.

He didnt. I said he used a 0% finance deal couple with cash to buy the car. It was an HP deal.

He thought just because it was 0% he was getting a great deal. Forgetting to "do his homework" on the price of it...

daemon said:

I saw another thread on MSE a while ago where a bloke laughed at those who took out loans / PCP deals to buy cars, as he, personally only ever [u]bought[/u] with a combination of cash and 0% finance. It turns out the car he'd bought - a Peugeot 308 CC 2.0 Diesel - and had got 0% finance on, he had paid the £25,000 LIST PRICE of the car after he cannily took their 0% finance offer. He went a bit quiet when someone pointed out he could have got the car for £6,000 less off a broker....

Edited by daemon on Tuesday 25th October 20:54

Would it have made a difference if it was PCP?

To the guy? Yes, probably.

His view was that PCPs in general werent a good deal, however ensuring you only ever used a combination of cash and 0% finance offers meant you got a better deal.

Clearly he was wrong - as was proven by the deal he got.

[Granfondo]

Devil2575 said:

Granfondo said:

So how come with the average salary being £26k there is so many £60k plus cars on the road?

Are they?

What proportion of cars on the road are £60k plus cars?

A quick look at Autotrader shows that out of the 16000 BMWs 3 years old or newer for sale only about 500 are M cars.

But there is 7766 second hand cars over £50k though!
And if you take a 3 year old £60k will be £30k there is over 27000 cars for sale on Autotrader!

Edited by Granfondo on Tuesday 25th October 21:18

[anonymous-user]

Granfondo said:

Would it have made a difference if it was PCP?

Imagine if you could agree a 25% discount on a car , having rung around numerous dealers confident that you had the lowest price irrespective of funding method and then pay for it using 0% finance whilst having a multiple of the cash at bank at any time to pay it off.

Surely not even you could pick holes in that ?

[Devil2575]

Granfondo said:

Devil2575 said:

Granfondo said:

So how come with the average salary being £26k there is so many £60k plus cars on the road?

Are they?

What proportion of cars on the road are £60k plus cars?

A quick look at Autotrader shows that out of the 16000 BMWs 3 years old or newer for sale only about 500 are M cars.

But there is 7766 second hand cars over £50k though!

Out of 450,000 cars. So a tiny proportion.

[Granfondo]

RSK21 said:

Granfondo said:

Would it have made a difference if it was PCP?

Imagine if you could agree a 25% discount on a car , having rung around numerous dealers confident that you had the lowest price irrespective of funding method and then pay for it using 0% finance whilst having a multiple of the cash at bank at any time to pay it off.

Surely not even you could pick holes in that ?

But you won't get the manufacturers 0% if you want 25% discount though will you?

[daemon]

Granfondo said:

daemon said:

If you say so.

However i dont know ANYONE (a) who talks like that and (b) splurges that amount of money on a car with such a disproportionately low salary.

If, of course, you have any actual evidence to support what you are saying, as opposed to it just being a prejudiced view, please feel free to share the evidence.

So you think that everyone in the £50k plus bracket of cars is earning more than £72k?

Deluded or what?

No, i didnt say that at all.

You're going to become more and more ridiculous until everyone turns against you again and you have to scuttle off and hide under a stone for a day or two again, arent you?

I guess you just cant help yourself....

[Granfondo]

Devil2575 said:

Granfondo said:

Devil2575 said:

Granfondo said:

So how come with the average salary being £26k there is so many £60k plus cars on the road?

Are they?

What proportion of cars on the road are £60k plus cars?

A quick look at Autotrader shows that out of the 16000 BMWs 3 years old or newer for sale only about 500 are M cars.

But there is 7766 second hand cars over £50k though!

Out of 450,000 cars. So a tiny proportion.

27000 for sale after 3 years thought!

[daemon]

Devil2575 said:

Granfondo said:

Devil2575 said:

Granfondo said:

So how come with the average salary being £26k there is so many £60k plus cars on the road?

Are they?

What proportion of cars on the road are £60k plus cars?

A quick look at Autotrader shows that out of the 16000 BMWs 3 years old or newer for sale only about 500 are M cars.

But there is 7766 second hand cars over £50k though!

Out of 450,000 cars. So a tiny proportion.

And theres probably more than 7,766 people in the UK on £72K or more, i would have thought....