Where have all the good Civic Type R's gone?

[Martin_Hx]

I've had my 06 Cosmic grey EP3 10 years next year with FHSH! 1st year of its life it was owned by Honda UK... im 34 and its done about 66k miles, im not looking to sell anytime soon! Shes a cracking daily driver....

Oh and its standard

[dannyDC2]

MRobbins1987 said:

I wouldn't consider an FN2 if you enjoy driving, great engine gearbox combination as per the EP3 but a massive let down in terms of chassis and feel. I would hold out for a decent EP3 or as suggested get a Clio Cup.

By that theory - you shouldn't really consider the EP3, and go straight for a DC2.

FN2s are awesome cars. All the good stuff from an EP3, mixed with all the good stuff from a modern car. Obviously you lose a bit of "feel" from the modern day A pillars.. but hey ho.

[TheJimi]

I was wondering when the FN2 vs EP3 thing would kick off

[Squirrelofwoe]

TheJimi said:

I was wondering when the FN2 vs EP3 thing would kick off

Surely we all know the hierarchy goes NSX-R > EK9/DC2/ATR > FD2/DC5 > EP3 > FN2

:runs away:

After writing that I actually feel a bit dirty, like one of those BMW fanboys who only talks in E numbers!

[twoblacklines]

Revisitph said:

I've searched, in a desultory way and out of interest only, for my one - black, JRSC supercharger with standard pulley so ~240bhp, carbon air intake (by a maker I can't remember) but never found what happened to it (original reg R200 HON )

ETA - with Honda sat-nav.

Don't they make 240hp with bolt ons and a remap? Yours should have been around 350hp surely?

[TheLordJohn]

A good point made a couple of posts above, why not consider an ATR?
Still very sensibly priced, and you see so few in comparison to an EP3 or FN2.

[Butter Face]

TheLordJohn said:

A good point made a couple of posts above, why not consider an ATR?
Still very sensibly priced, and you see so few in comparison to an EP3 or FN2.

The H22 is an old engine now though, and it feels it.

I considered one when I was buying my EP3 but the EP3 feels like a nicer package IMO.

If I had the spare cash I'd fancy a Euro R http://torque-gt.co.uk/car/honda-accord-euro-r/ and then swap my supercharger across.

[MRobbins1987]

Vyse said:

No it's not, let's be clear. The only people who claim the fn2 is as good/better than the ep3 are the ricers that own them.

Worse power to weight ratio, check.
Crap ride, check.
Crap brakes, check.
Steering lacking any sort of feel, check.
Understeer at the wiff of a corner, check.

The only thing that a geo set up will help with is understeer, the rest is still going to be useless.

[Squirrelofwoe]

Butter Face said:

TheLordJohn said:

A good point made a couple of posts above, why not consider an ATR?
Still very sensibly priced, and you see so few in comparison to an EP3 or FN2.

The H22 is an old engine now though, and it feels it.

I considered one when I was buying my EP3 but the EP3 feels like a nicer package IMO.

If I had the spare cash I'd fancy a Euro R http://torque-gt.co.uk/car/honda-accord-euro-r/ and then swap my supercharger across.

Having owned both an ATR and a DC2, I actually found the H22 engine one of my favourite things about the ATR. The noise with a Mongoose exhaust and Typhoon induction was out of this world, vastly preferred it to the (albeit excellent) shriek of the Integra's B18.

My dream Type R now would actually be a DC2 with a H22 engine

ATRs are still the bargain of the Type R world, but finding decent ones cheaply is getting increasingly difficult. Mine cost me £1,800 back in 2013 and was far from the cheapest one out there- it had FSH, average miles, and was in decent nick. Similar ones now seem to be a lot closer to £3k.

Still a bargain compared with the EK9 & DC2 though, the two cars I'd say it shares the most DNA with. They are older cars though, so like with the DC2 rust is becoming a bigger issue for a lot of them. I'd have another in a heartbeat though.

[dannyDC2]

MRobbins1987 said:

No it's not, let's be clear. The only people who claim the fn2 is as good/better than the ep3 are the ricers that own them.

Worse power to weight ratio, check.
Crap ride, check.
Crap brakes, check.
Steering lacking any sort of feel, check.
Understeer at the wiff of a corner, check.

The only thing that a geo set up will help with is understeer, the rest is still going to be useless.

I can't keep repeating myself, but as a DC2 owner this st makes die inside slightly when people say that about the FN2 being crap. Then use the exact points that make the EP3 crap in comparison to a DC2/EK9, to justify their point.




ETA - I'm not in anyway saying EP3s are crap. I don't think any Type Rs are crap. I just don't like the way they are seen as the superior Type R, because you are only comparing it against the EP3.

DC2 master race etc.

Edited by dannyDC2 on Tuesday 25th October 16:28

[MRobbins1987]

dannyDC2 said:

I can't keep repeating myself, but as a DC2 owner this st makes die inside slightly when people say that about the FN2 being crap. Then use the exact points that make the EP3 crap in comparison to a DC2/EK9, to justify their point.

The EP3 is crap in comparison to a dc2 but thats not we are comparing so pop your tampon back in.

[twoblacklines]

dannyDC2 said:

I can't keep repeating myself, but as a DC2 owner this st makes die inside slightly when people say that about the FN2 being crap. Then use the exact points that make the EP3 crap in comparison to a DC2/EK9, to justify their point.

Didn't the FN2 have worst suspension than the EP3 it replaced? I seem to remember Clarkson pointing that out when it was released.

And that dashboard looks terrible.

And the EP3 has a gear lever in a better place for someone driving fast than FN2.

[dannyDC2]

MRobbins1987 said:

The EP3 is crap in comparison to a dc2 but thats not we are comparing so pop your tampon back in.

Woah. Cheeky kunt mate I swear.

Problem with arsenal is they always try and walk it in.

[dannyDC2]

twoblacklines said:

dannyDC2 said:

I can't keep repeating myself, but as a DC2 owner this st makes die inside slightly when people say that about the FN2 being crap. Then use the exact points that make the EP3 crap in comparison to a DC2/EK9, to justify their point.

Didn't the FN2 have worst suspension than the EP3 it replaced? I seem to remember Clarkson pointing that out when it was released.

And that dashboard looks terrible.

And the EP3 has a gear lever in a better place for someone driving fast than FN2.

As much as I love Clarkson do you really trust his opinion on a car? I always remember him saying how bad the Vectra VXR was - then Evo mag rated it highly in a test against an Evo, 330i and Subaru.

It had a solid rear beam yeah, so cheaper to make and less feel from the back end some say.

I'm not going to pretend that I'm the FN2s biggest fan, but come on, it's not that bad. Especially the Championship White/Mugen ones!! Beautiful cars.

[dannyDC2]

DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.

ATR came with LSD yes. None of the UK Civic Type Rs came with LSD other than the 2010 onwards FN2s IIRC. Don't forget the EK9 was import only.

[MRobbins1987]

dannyDC2 said:

twoblacklines said:

dannyDC2 said:

I can't keep repeating myself, but as a DC2 owner this st makes die inside slightly when people say that about the FN2 being crap. Then use the exact points that make the EP3 crap in comparison to a DC2/EK9, to justify their point.

Didn't the FN2 have worst suspension than the EP3 it replaced? I seem to remember Clarkson pointing that out when it was released.

And that dashboard looks terrible.

And the EP3 has a gear lever in a better place for someone driving fast than FN2.

As much as I love Clarkson do you really trust his opinion on a car? I always remember him saying how bad the Vectra VXR was - then Evo mag rated it highly in a test against an Evo, 330i and Subaru.

It had a solid rear beam yeah, so cheaper to make and less feel from the back end some say.

I'm not going to pretend that I'm the FN2s biggest fan, but come on, it's not that bad. Especially the Championship White/Mugen ones!! Beautiful cars.

Provide a single review that rates the fn2 above the ep3, you wont find one.

[Squirrelofwoe]

DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.

Hence my point about it sharing more DNA with the DC2/EK9 than the later Type Rs. It also had the best steering of any Type R I've driven too- sharper/more feel than the DC2 in my opinion.

Pretty sure it weighed just over 1,300kg too, which for a 4 door saloon is pretty crazy. Essentially an average passenger heavier than an S2000. It also makes you realise just how lightweight the smaller Type Rs were when you consider how much bigger the ATR feels than a DC2!

[dannyDC2]

MRobbins1987 said:

Provide a single review that rates the fn2 above the ep3, you wont find one.

Hmm. Haven't really looked. Have owned an EP3 and driven/been in plenty of FN2s. I just don't think they're as bad as everyone makes out at all.

I think of these cars in Tsukuba lap times, and they're pretty similar around there.

Yet with the FN2 you get so much more in the car...

If your argument is driving experience, well, you know what I'm going to say...

The FN2 doesn't drive as good, but it's 9/10ths of the way there IMO. Where as the EP3 isn't 9/10ths on the DC/EK.

But hey, the if we all thought the same about everything, world would be pretty boring.

Maybe it's because Japan thinks the Euro R is pretty cool, and if Japan thinks it's cool - I usually do.

[MRobbins1987]

dannyDC2 said:

Hmm. Haven't really looked. Have owned an EP3 and driven/been in plenty of FN2s. I just don't think they're as bad as everyone makes out at all.

I think of these cars in Tsukuba lap times, and they're pretty similar around there.

Yet with the FN2 you get so much more in the car...

If your argument is driving experience, well, you know what I'm going to say...

The FN2 doesn't drive as good, but it's 9/10ths of the way there IMO. Where as the EP3 isn't 9/10ths on the DC/EK.

But hey, the if we all thought the same about everything, world would be pretty boring.

Maybe it's because Japan thinks the Euro R is pretty cool, and if Japan thinks it's cool - I usually do.

It doesn't make my opinion nonsense though and that's what I'm opposing, fact is the ep3 is more fun to drive than the fn2 and every single comparison review suggests the same, including the ones on ph. The only people who suggest otherwise are fn2 owners, and times around a track dont determine how fun a car is on the road.

I did 40,000 miles over a 2 year period in an fn2 so I feel that I've experienced one for long enough to come to a valid conclusion that it's a poor excuse for a hot hatch, but it's great if you have a fit lass with big tits in the passenger seat as they get serious cleavage wobble.

[Baz2000]

I did look at all the options before deciding on a EP3. Ideally I would love a DC2 or DC5. The thing that puts me off a DC2 is rust, I have spent far too much time on previous cars dealing/worrying with rust. This needs to be my everyday car. DC5's are just too expensive.

I agree it is much more easy to find a good FN2 and no doubt they are very capable cars, I just irrationally don't like them, the styling, dash etc I just don't like them, I prefer the basicness of the EP3 if that makes sense.

I would definitely consider a Accord Type R but from what I can see these are even harder to find a good one and are getting on a bit now and from what I have read age brings with it problems on these, weak gearboxes, rust etc.