RE: Audi RS6 Avant vs. Nissan GT-R: PH Video
Discussion
likesachange said:
drmark said:
SWoll said:
I don't get the appeal of the RS6 at all in the UK. Looked horrible on track, lurching from corner to corner with understeer between, almost no sound from the engine and just not special enough to warrant the pricetag.
On the road I imagine the amount of power on tap just makes for massively frustrating experience 99% of the time and it's just too big, too heavy and too blunt a tool for having fun throwing along B roads. A very 1 dimensional experience I imagine.
Watch again. It doesn't lurch - but it's no hot hatch as Dan points out - and it feels like a car half its weight simply because of effortless power, powerful brakes and DRC flattening out lean. And remember that is an estate car being driven behind one of the fastest machines in the world. Most cars will look like they are lurching in that situation - only they would be a lap behind On the road I imagine the amount of power on tap just makes for massively frustrating experience 99% of the time and it's just too big, too heavy and too blunt a tool for having fun throwing along B roads. A very 1 dimensional experience I imagine.
Imagine all you like, but please try one. May not be your thing. But this latest version has surprised a lot of people - including me (ex GT3).
Don't really get the bit where "it looks horrible on track". ?! If the driver is applauding it then what the hell does it matter how it "looks" on track.
I imagine engineering a 600bhp 2ton vehicle to handle even just reasonably is quite difficult.. and pretty much impossible to get one to match a car considerably lighter... but they have done an outstanding job getting that close to the fastest car in its class..
Oh and I personally think the RS6 looks stunning with its aggressivenes! I think that's what will be replacing my f10 for ....
In purple please
As I say, I have trouble seeing the purpose of it in the UK. Not suited to track work at all (especially with steel brakes) and too damn big, heavy and inert for most B road blasts.
Love the way it looks, and the A6 Avant is a very well built and super practical car for everyday use, which is exactly why I've just ordered a Black Edition as my new company car this very week.
chazuk said:
+1 I have seen one at a track day at Goodwood German plated car all geared up pair of them in matching race suits looked the business in the pits ... and then they got a pasting from cars half the weight and half the power! You could tell watching it through woodcote leaning heavily with the appearance of under steer.
I remember it having to come in early as the brakes did not last the whole session,can not knock the car it was not designed as a all out track car was it.
Erm your kind of missing the point...I remember it having to come in early as the brakes did not last the whole session,can not knock the car it was not designed as a all out track car was it.
"got a pasting from cars half the weight and half the power!" cars half the weight (1ton) will be track cars so that's an obvious statement, oh and that also means those cars half the weight would be giving the gtr's a pasting too.. interesting.
The RS6 is far from being designed for track. This is also the "tweaked "performance edition that has a better dynamic setup than the normal RS6.
If you want a do everything car this to me looks like the best money can buy. 80k for one may seem like a lot but a 2.0 hot hatch Mercedes will cost you 45k i dont think its that bad.
Same price as a GTR..... I know where my money would go.... absolute no brainer
SWoll said:
It looks pretty lurchy to me at about 20 seconds into the video coming around the left-hander towards camera.
As I say, I have trouble seeing the purpose of it in the UK. Not suited to track work at all (especially with steel brakes) and too damn big, heavy and inert for most B road blasts.
Love the way it looks, and the A6 Avant is a very well built and super practical car for everyday use, which is exactly why I've just ordered a Black Edition as my new company car this very week.
Yeah am sure some of the corners (tighter, slower chicanes) will highlight its inability to defeat physics. I don't think that is a big price to pay for all the other duties it can do off track.As I say, I have trouble seeing the purpose of it in the UK. Not suited to track work at all (especially with steel brakes) and too damn big, heavy and inert for most B road blasts.
Love the way it looks, and the A6 Avant is a very well built and super practical car for everyday use, which is exactly why I've just ordered a Black Edition as my new company car this very week.
If you are a strict law abiding citizen and religiously stick to speed limits then i see your argument. I sometimes accidentally creep above the speed limit when focusing on other road hazards.
I don't even know why i am arguing its case tbh as i have a f10 M5
Perhaps i feel that unless people have tried these heavy powerful cars in anger they wont appreciate how well they cope. (i came from an atom to put it into perspective (and earlier poster has came from a GT3.....))
likesachange said:
Erm your kind of missing the point...
"got a pasting from cars half the weight and half the power!" cars half the weight (1ton) will be track cars so that's an obvious statement, oh and that also means those cars half the weight would be giving the gtr's a pasting too.. interesting.
The RS6 is far from being designed for track. This is also the "tweaked "performance edition that has a better dynamic setup than the normal RS6.
If you want a do everything car this to me looks like the best money can buy. 80k for one may seem like a lot but a 2.0 hot hatch Mercedes will cost you 45k i dont think its that bad.
Same price as a GTR..... I know where my money would go.... absolute no brainer
I suppose it depends on your definition of 'does everything'. Very practical and super quick in a straight line but I imagine unless you are regularly moving wardrobes about or travelling 5 up the GTR covers more bases from an enthusiasts point of view? Good on track, more involving on road and just as quick? They are both compromised by being too big for the average road though IMHO."got a pasting from cars half the weight and half the power!" cars half the weight (1ton) will be track cars so that's an obvious statement, oh and that also means those cars half the weight would be giving the gtr's a pasting too.. interesting.
The RS6 is far from being designed for track. This is also the "tweaked "performance edition that has a better dynamic setup than the normal RS6.
If you want a do everything car this to me looks like the best money can buy. 80k for one may seem like a lot but a 2.0 hot hatch Mercedes will cost you 45k i dont think its that bad.
Same price as a GTR..... I know where my money would go.... absolute no brainer
I know it's a pretty pointless comparison, but for the money I'd be more tempted by a 3.0 BiTDi Avant and an Exige V6. Then you really do have all of the bases covered.
likesachange said:
If you are a strict law abiding citizen and religiously stick to speed limits then i see your argument. I sometimes accidentally creep above the speed limit when focusing on other road hazards.
Not at all, it's just with that much power it's a constant frustration I've found in the past. Even with cars running half that BHP you can be into license losing territory very quickly, and the vast majority of other UK road users just aren't calibrated to cope with something moving that quickly so the level of concentration required is exhausting.SWoll said:
Not at all, it's just with that much power it's a constant frustration I've found in the past. Even with cars running half that BHP you can be into license losing territory very quickly, and the vast majority of other UK road users just aren't calibrated to cope with something moving that quickly so the level of concentration required is exhausting.
Well, i'm not in jail yet...I use the performance of the car regularly in places i know. Safe to say, the RS6 is a car where you don't have to plan that carefully when to overtake.
There's also just something smugly satisfying that you have access to the power. I set out to buy a 3.0TDI. The man maths took me to second hand RS6, and then to a brand new Performance edition!
I don't find it a challenge to hustle either. In fact, it enterains me further that this huge hearse of a car is getting flung down b-roads.
Scottie - NW said:
I am sure the Nissan driver described 300kg as an insignificant weight difference, or similar words.
That is a lot, huge amounts when you consider one 80kg passenger forces you to alter braking points.
In fact it's like having four passengers, so I can only conclude the Nissan driver has not a lot of idea about driving based on that statement.
Please take him outside and drop 300kg on him to show him how significant that is
Enjoyed the video.
To put that into perspective, most people would not be able to lift 150kg off the floor! That is 4 average weight passengers!That is a lot, huge amounts when you consider one 80kg passenger forces you to alter braking points.
In fact it's like having four passengers, so I can only conclude the Nissan driver has not a lot of idea about driving based on that statement.
Please take him outside and drop 300kg on him to show him how significant that is
Enjoyed the video.
likesachange said:
Erm your kind of missing the point...
"got a pasting from cars half the weight and half the power!" cars half the weight (1ton) will be track cars so that's an obvious statement, oh and that also means those cars half the weight would be giving the gtr's a pasting too.. interesting.
The RS6 is far from being designed for track. This is also the "tweaked "performance edition that has a better dynamic setup than the normal RS6.
If you want a do everything car this to me looks like the best money can buy. 80k for one may seem like a lot but a 2.0 hot hatch Mercedes will cost you 45k i dont think its that bad.
Same price as a GTR..... I know where my money would go.... absolute no brainer
Not really as I said it was not intended for the track but this thread started around the rs6 being on track, and not all of them were track only cars there was a road going lotus exige v6s that passed it. Don't be fooled and read all the hype GTR quickest car ever that you turn up and you are the quickest car out there, a good read from this guys experience of taking his GTR to SPA http://www.gtrfails.com/"got a pasting from cars half the weight and half the power!" cars half the weight (1ton) will be track cars so that's an obvious statement, oh and that also means those cars half the weight would be giving the gtr's a pasting too.. interesting.
The RS6 is far from being designed for track. This is also the "tweaked "performance edition that has a better dynamic setup than the normal RS6.
If you want a do everything car this to me looks like the best money can buy. 80k for one may seem like a lot but a 2.0 hot hatch Mercedes will cost you 45k i dont think its that bad.
Same price as a GTR..... I know where my money would go.... absolute no brainer
This 20year old supra gives this GTR at Silverstone so much hassle the GTR ends up coming off track @6.20 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgPHAziP2tc
Edited by chazuk on Friday 21st October 09:43
Edited by chazuk on Friday 21st October 09:47
SWoll said:
I know it's a pretty pointless comparison, but for the money I'd be more tempted by a 3.0 BiTDi Avant and an Exige V6. Then you really do have all of the bases covered.
It really depends on what you HAVE to do and what you WANT do with your car/cars. I own a 530xd Toruring and an Elise. But my choice is related to various needs/factor:- my daily commute is a 1h30m 20 miles round trip in city traffic, a waste for any car good to drive
- I live close to the Alps and I need during winter with room for skis and snowboards and 4wd
- I do boring motorway miles for work often
- Italian taxation where I live now hits hard for every hp over the 250+ mark, a 600hp car is £2000/year more in road tax alone
I like the RS6 and if I had no budget constraints it would be my daily but the weekend car would be a 997 RS. To be a realistic choice for me my daily commute would have to be on more interesting roads, then I would have a car capable of doing every I need and giving thrills on daily basis.
likesachange said:
If you want a do everything car this to me looks like the best money can buy. 80k for one may seem like a lot but a 2.0 hot hatch Mercedes will cost you 45k i dont think its that bad.
Same price as a GTR..... I know where my money would go.... absolute no brainer
I appreciate the sentiment. An RS6 Performance is with the equipment most come with, kerb 2000kg+ without driver. Bloody fast in the straights, and very able on B-roads. 565 litres in the boot, expands to a generous 1,680. Same price as a GTR..... I know where my money would go.... absolute no brainer
This one is 1450kg-ish, about as fast on a twisty track, plenty fast on british roads, seats up 587 litres, about 1500 down. Cost two-thirds or less than... the A45. Only gripe, it's FWD. Not the best the money can buy, but from a drivers perspective, surely the most bang for your money for a do everything car: http://www.pistonheads.com/regulars/blog/life-in-t...
matsoc said:
SWoll said:
I know it's a pretty pointless comparison, but for the money I'd be more tempted by a 3.0 BiTDi Avant and an Exige V6. Then you really do have all of the bases covered.
It really depends on what you HAVE to do and what you WANT do with your car/cars. I own a 530xd Toruring and an Elise. But my choice is related to various needs/factor:- my daily commute is a 1h30m 20 miles round trip in city traffic, a waste for any car good to drive
- I live close to the Alps and I need during winter with room for skis and snowboards and 4wd
- I do boring motorway miles for work often
- Italian taxation where I live now hits hard for every hp over the 250+ mark, a 600hp car is £2000/year more in road tax alone
I like the RS6 and if I had no budget constraints it would be my daily but the weekend car would be a 997 RS. To be a realistic choice for me my daily commute would have to be on more interesting roads, then I would have a car capable of doing every I need and giving thrills on daily basis.
Of a weekend I'm looking for something that is the exact opposite, so lightweight and gadget free. With any luck that requirement will be met in the next 12 months by the addition of an S2 Elise R or something similar.
The thing about the RS6 is that even if I stretched my budget it wouldn't really suit any of my requirements due to it being compromised in one way or another.
chazuk said:
Not really as I said it was not intended for the track but this thread started around the rs6 being on track, and not all of them were track only cars there was a road going lotus exige v6s that passed it. Don't be fooled and read all the hype GTR quickest car ever that you turn up and you are the quickest car out there, a good read from this guys experience of taking his GTR to SPA http://www.gtrfails.com/
This 20year old supra gives this GTR at Silverstone so much hassle the GTR ends up coming off track @6.20 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgPHAziP2tc
Still kind of misses the point.. a road going exige V6.... erm that imo main objective was designed to be a very involving lightweight track car? The RS6 is showing how good it is at track even though it shouldn't be. Id be pretty embarrassed if i was driving the Exige and couldn't get past a factory estate car on track.This 20year old supra gives this GTR at Silverstone so much hassle the GTR ends up coming off track @6.20 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgPHAziP2tc
Edited by chazuk on Friday 21st October 09:43
Edited by chazuk on Friday 21st October 09:47
I am familiar with GTR's and am not fooled by the hype... any fast car will see many fools behind the wheel. Id imagine for every GTR fail there are 100 erm wins?!
Starting to get a little off track (excuse the pun) comparing GTR's with old supra's. If you honestly believe an old stock supra can out hustle a stock GTR with same driver skills.. well i'm out.
likesachange said:
Still kind of misses the point.. a road going exige V6.... erm that imo main objective was designed to be a very involving lightweight track car? The RS6 is showing how good it is at track even though it shouldn't be. Id be pretty embarrassed if i was driving the Exige and couldn't get past a factory estate car on track.
I am familiar with GTR's and am not fooled by the hype... any fast car will see many fools behind the wheel. Id imagine for every GTR fail there are 100 erm wins?!
Starting to get a little off track (excuse the pun) comparing GTR's with old supra's. If you honestly believe an old stock supra can out hustle a stock GTR with same driver skills.. well i'm out.
In fairness, it's a factory estate car that costs well north of £100k....I am familiar with GTR's and am not fooled by the hype... any fast car will see many fools behind the wheel. Id imagine for every GTR fail there are 100 erm wins?!
Starting to get a little off track (excuse the pun) comparing GTR's with old supra's. If you honestly believe an old stock supra can out hustle a stock GTR with same driver skills.. well i'm out.
DoubleSix said:
Scottie - NW said:
I am sure the Nissan driver described 300kg as an insignificant weight difference, or similar words.
That is a lot, huge amounts when you consider one 80kg passenger forces you to alter braking points.
In fact it's like having four passengers, so I can only conclude the Nissan driver has not a lot of idea about driving based on that statement.
Please take him outside and drop 300kg on him to show him how significant that is
Enjoyed the video.
Thought the same; "only 300kgs" lolThat is a lot, huge amounts when you consider one 80kg passenger forces you to alter braking points.
In fact it's like having four passengers, so I can only conclude the Nissan driver has not a lot of idea about driving based on that statement.
Please take him outside and drop 300kg on him to show him how significant that is
Enjoyed the video.
Even on cars this size that's a huge amount of extra weight.
Whereas both my Cerbera/200sx were around 1200kgs and you can tell the difference in weight for sure.
When I jump out of the 640d at 1800kgs and into the 330i the difference in weight is noticeable straight away regards nimbleness.
Bottom line is weight ruins the driving experience and the lighter the better I think, I can really understand why people love Lotus/caterhams etc.
cerb4.5lee said:
I'm pleased others have picked up on this, it's one of the things I dislike about my 330i is the weight at around 1500kgs.
Whereas both my Cerbera/200sx were around 1200kgs and you can tell the difference in weight for sure.
When I jump out of the 640d at 1800kgs and into the 330i the difference in weight is noticeable straight away regards nimbleness.
Bottom line is weight ruins the driving experience and the lighter the better I think, I can really understand why people love Lotus/caterhams etc.
Totally agree, although some cars do hide their weight better than others. The RS6 doesn't look like one of them though.Whereas both my Cerbera/200sx were around 1200kgs and you can tell the difference in weight for sure.
When I jump out of the 640d at 1800kgs and into the 330i the difference in weight is noticeable straight away regards nimbleness.
Bottom line is weight ruins the driving experience and the lighter the better I think, I can really understand why people love Lotus/caterhams etc.
chris watton said:
In fairness, it's a factory estate car that costs well north of £100k....
That's just it its an estate car, it shouldn't even be mentioned along side GTR's, 60k track cars etcIf you are loaded and don't car about running costs and if your commute involves some lovely roads (which can often be wet) it ticks all the boxes . Or even family euro trips its perfect.
Not sure how many production 600bhp+ cars are out there well under 100k btw? its the same argument for these uber hatches speccd up to over 50k
Power comes at a cost....
I personally believe the M5 is probably the best value car on the market at the minute around 55k with all the discounts available hence why i couldn't justify the extra 20k for the Audi.
chris watton said:
In fairness, it's a factory estate car that costs well north of £100k....
Except it doesn't cost anywhere near £100k, never mind "well north" of £100k. I have no doubt that you could option an RS6 Performance up to £100k and beyond, but the base car (if you can describe any RS6 Performance as a base car...) can be had brand new for less than £75k. Sure, it isn't cheap, but nor is it this £100k+ figure people seem to be throwing around.
Matt100HP said:
Except it doesn't cost anywhere near £100k, never mind "well north" of £100k.
I have no doubt that you could option an RS6 Performance up to £100k and beyond, but the base car (if you can describe any RS6 Performance as a base car...) can be had brand new for less than £75k. Sure, it isn't cheap, but nor is it this £100k+ figure people seem to be throwing around.
Price, as tested, stated 99k though. Probably loaded with options but still...I have no doubt that you could option an RS6 Performance up to £100k and beyond, but the base car (if you can describe any RS6 Performance as a base car...) can be had brand new for less than £75k. Sure, it isn't cheap, but nor is it this £100k+ figure people seem to be throwing around.
Matt100HP said:
chris watton said:
In fairness, it's a factory estate car that costs well north of £100k....
Except it doesn't cost anywhere near £100k, never mind "well north" of £100k. I have no doubt that you could option an RS6 Performance up to £100k and beyond, but the base car (if you can describe any RS6 Performance as a base car...) can be had brand new for less than £75k. Sure, it isn't cheap, but nor is it this £100k+ figure people seem to be throwing around.
I know little about these cars, I was basing my post on this:
ogrodz said:
The RS6 is probably the best all-rounder on the market at the moment. But the £100K (including radio) price tag is just bonkers. My RS4 B7 cab - at circa £20K - is not quite as fast but using the "bang for buck algorithm", I think it wins over the RS6.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff