Corroded brake discs.
Discussion
I measure how thick the disk is and check against the tolerances, if its nearly there or really manky, it gets changed but otherwise, wonders can be worked with a flap disk in an angle grinder and a can of VHT paint, do it on most of y cars as generally it is something that makes the car look scruffy, even very new cars have the disks and calipers looking a mess, I am not talking painting the calipers red or anything, just use silver as it is pretty neutral.
£463 is er, enthusiastic, the disks on ECP are £30 each and the pads are £20, £80 and I expect they wont even pay that, £400 labour ? I know they have a dealership to run but that seems a bit excessive, I would have thought £250 - £300 for that job at a dealers.
£463 is er, enthusiastic, the disks on ECP are £30 each and the pads are £20, £80 and I expect they wont even pay that, £400 labour ? I know they have a dealership to run but that seems a bit excessive, I would have thought £250 - £300 for that job at a dealers.
J4CKO said:
I measure how thick the disk is and check against the tolerances, if its nearly there or really manky, it gets changed but otherwise, wonders can be worked with a flap disk in an angle grinder and a can of VHT paint, do it on most of y cars as generally it is something that makes the car look scruffy, even very new cars have the disks and calipers looking a mess, I am not talking painting the calipers red or anything, just use silver as it is pretty neutral.
£463 is er, enthusiastic, the disks on ECP are £30 each and the pads are £20, £80 and I expect they wont even pay that, £400 labour ? I know they have a dealership to run but that seems a bit excessive, I would have thought £250 - £300 for that job at a dealers.
Seems about right, changing the pads/disks is pretty straightforward, and there are plenty of youtube how-tos.£463 is er, enthusiastic, the disks on ECP are £30 each and the pads are £20, £80 and I expect they wont even pay that, £400 labour ? I know they have a dealership to run but that seems a bit excessive, I would have thought £250 - £300 for that job at a dealers.
Vipers said:
Following some work on my car, Arnold Clark gave me a list of some work they identified as need looking at in the next few months.
Apart from a dim headlight replacement quoted at £37.50 which made me laugh, it said :-
Brake disc (rear) corroded, (didn't say one or two), £463.92.
So the disc is corroded, should I replace or not.
The old corroded brake disc ployApart from a dim headlight replacement quoted at £37.50 which made me laugh, it said :-
Brake disc (rear) corroded, (didn't say one or two), £463.92.
So the disc is corroded, should I replace or not.
They dont tell you there's anything wrong with them just theyre corroded
Mr and Mrs Muggins think this may be a problem so ask how much to fit new ones and the garage helpfully obliges
At no point has the garage said it's a problem as discs naturally corrode especially on the back where they might only be used under heavy braking.
In other news your tyres have started to wear - would you like us to change them?
CO2000 said:
Could be the vanes that are corroded, wouldn't want them falling apart! Prob just surface corrosion but best investigate 
I cant ever see that happening, they are pretty thick metal, the rust is not that deep usually but the metal that has corroded expands to several times its non corroded size.Someone usually says that they wouldnt diy as they dont have time and would happily pay as they dont have time, its half an hour a side and saves £300, pretty good wages I reckon, suppose it isnt for everyone and its good some people do pay way over the odds for a simple job, I am just going to order a nice big posh Bluetooth speaker for the kitchen with what I have saved this year on servicing the cars myself.
saaby93 said:
he old corroded brake disc ploy
They dont tell you there's anything wrong with them just theyre corroded
Mr and Mrs Muggins think this may be a problem so ask how much to fit new ones and the garage helpfully obliges
Mercedes used to do a thing called "ServicePlus" - it covered all service and maint work. They didn't advertise it as it was aimed at commericial vehicles but many owners who frequent the MB forums had it. It was common to get the "your discs and pads" need replacing call, and owners would say "sure go ahead".They dont tell you there's anything wrong with them just theyre corroded
Mr and Mrs Muggins think this may be a problem so ask how much to fit new ones and the garage helpfully obliges
Then one of two things would happen - either they'd twig and you went to collect the car the mechanic had decided that amazingly they didn't need doing after all, or they'd change them, ask you to pay and you'd say "ServicePlus" and watch the colour drain out of their faces!
J4CKO said:
CO2000 said:
Could be the vanes that are corroded, wouldn't want them falling apart! Prob just surface corrosion but best investigate
I cant ever see that happening, they are pretty thick metal, the rust is not that deep usually but the metal that has corroded expands to several times its non corroded size.Someone usually says that they wouldnt diy as they dont have time and would happily pay as they dont have time, its half an hour a side and saves £300, pretty good wages I reckon, suppose it isnt for everyone and its good some people do pay way over the odds for a simple job, I am just going to order a nice big posh Bluetooth speaker for the kitchen with what I have saved this year on servicing the cars myself.
Sheepshanks said:
Mercedes used to do a thing called "ServicePlus" - it covered all service and maint work. They didn't advertise it as it was aimed at commericial vehicles but many owners who frequent the MB forums had it. It was common to get the "your discs and pads" need replacing call, and owners would say "sure go ahead".
Then one of two things would happen - either they'd twig and you went to collect the car the mechanic had decided that amazingly they didn't need doing after all, or they'd change them, ask you to pay and you'd say "ServicePlus" and watch the colour drain out of their faces!
Final sentence of the anecdote makes no sense at all, unless it's to demonstrate a lack of understanding on how a service department works.Then one of two things would happen - either they'd twig and you went to collect the car the mechanic had decided that amazingly they didn't need doing after all, or they'd change them, ask you to pay and you'd say "ServicePlus" and watch the colour drain out of their faces!
A dealer is not owned by the manufacturer, nor does it really matter. If you have a service plan of any kind, the manufacturer will pay the dealer - there will be a discount involved on the manufacturer's part, but it's still business. It makes absolutely no sense why a service adviser have 'the colour drained our of their faces', unless it was a reaction to the person's method of saying it.
Reality is, an owner will take their car to an approved service centre (main dealer or otherwise), who will operate and inspect to the manufacturer's standards. The technician will report on the condition, then the lad or lass behind the counter will call the owner up and let them know if there are any faults or concerns. Bear in mind that the majority of people who visit a main dealer these days may only do it every service, which can be 20,000 miles or two years these days.
From first hand experience, there are three types of people in this world:
1) Those who don't look after their cars, will assume that anything beyond an oil change is a rip-off, then will prop up the bar/flood the internet with nasally recounted stories on how savvy they are for not getting ripped off at their service when they were told their pads were 80% worn.
2) Those who want to know if their car will make it through to the next MOT/service interval without needing extra work, as it's a giant PITA/inconvenience for them to arrange the logistics of bringing their car in for a day or more.
3) Those who are flexible and/or retired, perhaps understand how cars work, and have work prioritised and generally would listen attentively to what the service advisor says.
Now, not all garages are honest, and not all service advisors know what a wheel is (especially the franchises that prefer to hire based on gender/appearance, rather than product knowledge/interest). Generally speaking though, you'll find more people in category 1 who will sneer at your suggestion that they need to consider a wheel alignment as they have unusual shoulder wear. They will insist they know better, and that they don't need new brakes/geo etc. Next thing you know, these same people will appear at the counter some time later shaking their fists and frothing at the mouth because their tyre blew out (as they didn't keep and eye on the things you insisted they must, after refusing to have the work done) or their pads wore down to the pistons and ended up with brake failure and hydraulic fluid p'ing out all over the M25 at 2am.
I don't work in the trade any more as it is an absolutely miserable industry, mostly due to the know-nothing-but-everything customer base. You can do your best to help, but you'll always be an eternal b
d.£400 for rear discs on an S80 wouldn't be too far off the mark (if a little top-heavy) at a main dealer. Electric handbrake especially, but you're looking at around 0.9-1.1 JVs for labour on rear discs & pads on an S80. That's about £140 labour, then discs are probably around £80 + vat each (gen parts) plus pads at £40 odd.
Here's what one of the rear discs on my FN2 looked like when I replaced it recently. I assume it was the original disc that's been on the car for 9 years - did 3 track days and a 3,000 mile road trip like that without any issues. At £450+ I'm not sure I'd bother until it's an MOT failure.
cj2013 said:
Final sentence of the anecdote makes no sense at all, unless it's to demonstrate a lack of understanding on how a service department works.
A dealer is not owned by the manufacturer, nor does it really matter. If you have a service plan of any kind, the manufacturer will pay the dealer - there will be a discount involved on the manufacturer's part, but it's still business. It makes absolutely no sense why a service adviser have 'the colour drained our of their faces', unless it was a reaction to the person's method of saying it.
It's because, same as lease car maintenance, it's a pain to get authorisation - and, of course, they should do that before doing the work. So they'd have to lie to ServicePlus's maintenance controller on a couple of levels.A dealer is not owned by the manufacturer, nor does it really matter. If you have a service plan of any kind, the manufacturer will pay the dealer - there will be a discount involved on the manufacturer's part, but it's still business. It makes absolutely no sense why a service adviser have 'the colour drained our of their faces', unless it was a reaction to the person's method of saying it.
I imagine they also get paid a lot less for the work than retail and the service advisor probably doesn't get bonused on it.
I get this annually ,on MOT,and it's been a regular feature on every MOT since the car had it's first "nearside front brake disc worn, pitted or scored, but not seriously weakened (3.5.1i)". Every year, pre MOT,I get out the micrometer and check the thickness, and every year it's way above the 19mm Haynes says is the lower limit. I've asked RAC blokes to look and see if there's a problem. Their suggestion - MOT place looking to make a quick buck, as there's a bit of the outer not swept by pads. Suggestion- get an angle grinder and take off the excess.
saaby93 said:
oes it work like this
If a dealer sells a customer discs the dealer gets profit on parts plus labour charges
If it's a service plan manufacturer provides parts to dealer i.e. no profit, dealer provides labour FOC = loss
Or is that only for warranty work
That's only for warranty work, and even then the labour is at a set rate. The garages I worked at were generally retail around £100+vat (£90+vat at Ford), with warranty labour usually coming in nearer the £70 mark.If a dealer sells a customer discs the dealer gets profit on parts plus labour charges
If it's a service plan manufacturer provides parts to dealer i.e. no profit, dealer provides labour FOC = loss
Or is that only for warranty work
Warranty parts were charged at cost.
When it comes to services, they will have fixed prices. This may mean you would retail a second service for £249, as an example, but a service plan would need that to be more like £200. This means you nibble a bit off the oil costs (cost is normally £5-£7 a litre, depending on grade, and retail is nearer £11-£15, so there's a decent margin there) and perhaps do an oil filter at cost, then you're still making full retail charge on the labour, air filter/fuel filter etc.
One garage I worked at was an authorised repairer for a premium brand, but our labour rates were below national average - this meant that for some service plans, we'd get more from the plan than a retail customer. Funny old world.
Warranty work can be a winner too, as they will pay fixed labour based on a fixed amount of time (0.5 JVs for example), which in actual fact could take seconds if the car was in for other work anyway, meaning the dealer would therefore get £35+vat for not a lot at all. Really depends on what the work was, as a decal change could be 0.1 JVs (6 mins) which would often need to include getting it into the workshop and clocking on, if it was only in for something like a faded emblem.
cj2013 said:
Final sentence of the anecdote makes no sense at all, unless it's to demonstrate a lack of understanding on how a service department works.
A dealer is not owned by the manufacturer, nor does it really matter. If you have a service plan of any kind, the manufacturer will pay the dealer - there will be a discount involved on the manufacturer's part, but it's still business. It makes absolutely no sense why a service adviser have 'the colour drained our of their faces', unless it was a reaction to the person's method of saying it.
Reality is, an owner will take their car to an approved service centre (main dealer or otherwise), who will operate and inspect to the manufacturer's standards. The technician will report on the condition, then the lad or lass behind the counter will call the owner up and let them know if there are any faults or concerns. Bear in mind that the majority of people who visit a main dealer these days may only do it every service, which can be 20,000 miles or two years these days.
From first hand experience, there are three types of people in this world:
1) Those who don't look after their cars, will assume that anything beyond an oil change is a rip-off, then will prop up the bar/flood the internet with nasally recounted stories on how savvy they are for not getting ripped off at their service when they were told their pads were 80% worn.
2) Those who want to know if their car will make it through to the next MOT/service interval without needing extra work, as it's a giant PITA/inconvenience for them to arrange the logistics of bringing their car in for a day or more.
3) Those who are flexible and/or retired, perhaps understand how cars work, and have work prioritised and generally would listen attentively to what the service advisor says.
Now, not all garages are honest, and not all service advisors know what a wheel is (especially the franchises that prefer to hire based on gender/appearance, rather than product knowledge/interest). Generally speaking though, you'll find more people in category 1 who will sneer at your suggestion that they need to consider a wheel alignment as they have unusual shoulder wear. They will insist they know better, and that they don't need new brakes/geo etc. Next thing you know, these same people will appear at the counter some time later shaking their fists and frothing at the mouth because their tyre blew out (as they didn't keep and eye on the things you insisted they must, after refusing to have the work done) or their pads wore down to the pistons and ended up with brake failure and hydraulic fluid p'ing out all over the M25 at 2am.
I don't work in the trade any more as it is an absolutely miserable industry, mostly due to the know-nothing-but-everything customer base. You can do your best to help, but you'll always be an eternal bd.
£400 for rear discs on an S80 wouldn't be too far off the mark (if a little top-heavy) at a main dealer. Electric handbrake especially, but you're looking at around 0.9-1.1 JVs for labour on rear discs & pads on an S80. That's about £140 labour, then discs are probably around £80 + vat each (gen parts) plus pads at £40 odd.
Perhaps there are other type of people that are quite capable of a simple job like disks and pads and dont want to spend £300 to pay someone possibly less skilled and interested than themselves to change them ?A dealer is not owned by the manufacturer, nor does it really matter. If you have a service plan of any kind, the manufacturer will pay the dealer - there will be a discount involved on the manufacturer's part, but it's still business. It makes absolutely no sense why a service adviser have 'the colour drained our of their faces', unless it was a reaction to the person's method of saying it.
Reality is, an owner will take their car to an approved service centre (main dealer or otherwise), who will operate and inspect to the manufacturer's standards. The technician will report on the condition, then the lad or lass behind the counter will call the owner up and let them know if there are any faults or concerns. Bear in mind that the majority of people who visit a main dealer these days may only do it every service, which can be 20,000 miles or two years these days.
From first hand experience, there are three types of people in this world:
1) Those who don't look after their cars, will assume that anything beyond an oil change is a rip-off, then will prop up the bar/flood the internet with nasally recounted stories on how savvy they are for not getting ripped off at their service when they were told their pads were 80% worn.
2) Those who want to know if their car will make it through to the next MOT/service interval without needing extra work, as it's a giant PITA/inconvenience for them to arrange the logistics of bringing their car in for a day or more.
3) Those who are flexible and/or retired, perhaps understand how cars work, and have work prioritised and generally would listen attentively to what the service advisor says.
Now, not all garages are honest, and not all service advisors know what a wheel is (especially the franchises that prefer to hire based on gender/appearance, rather than product knowledge/interest). Generally speaking though, you'll find more people in category 1 who will sneer at your suggestion that they need to consider a wheel alignment as they have unusual shoulder wear. They will insist they know better, and that they don't need new brakes/geo etc. Next thing you know, these same people will appear at the counter some time later shaking their fists and frothing at the mouth because their tyre blew out (as they didn't keep and eye on the things you insisted they must, after refusing to have the work done) or their pads wore down to the pistons and ended up with brake failure and hydraulic fluid p'ing out all over the M25 at 2am.
I don't work in the trade any more as it is an absolutely miserable industry, mostly due to the know-nothing-but-everything customer base. You can do your best to help, but you'll always be an eternal b
d.£400 for rear discs on an S80 wouldn't be too far off the mark (if a little top-heavy) at a main dealer. Electric handbrake especially, but you're looking at around 0.9-1.1 JVs for labour on rear discs & pads on an S80. That's about £140 labour, then discs are probably around £80 + vat each (gen parts) plus pads at £40 odd.
The disks are £30 each as I said, and £20 for the pads, £80 in total and no more than an hour and half to do them, including a brew.
OEM means nothing really, Volvo dont make disks, they buy from external suppliers who make the same disks for the aftermarket.
Dealers wont pay those prices for parts, they will buy from factors on a discount like any garage, they are counting on people just saying do it, nothing wrong with that, it is commerce but £463 seems a bit like piss taking.
cj2013 said:
When it comes to services, they will have fixed prices. This may mean you would retail a second service for £249, as an example, but a service plan would need that to be more like £200.
By mistake I was given a copy of the invoice sent to VW for the first service under VW's 3yr plan on daughter's Golf. £68. J4CKO said:
Perhaps there are other type of people that are quite capable of a simple job like disks and pads and dont want to spend £300 to pay someone possibly less skilled and interested than themselves to change them ?
Those people would come into category 3, like I said. It has to be mentioned that not all discs and pads are a 'simple job', it's entirely subjective, especially where you have electronic handbrakes that need to be rewound. I also think it's a bit harsh to suggest a techy is 'less skilled and interested' (as we're talking manufacturer-approved here, not Kwik-Quid) - some of the fellas I worked with had over 30 years experience and were at the top level of master technicians, who took simple tasks and turned them into a craftmanship of care. Whilst this isn't always the case, it depends on the franchise as there are plenty out there who turn the screw and take the love out of the job.J4CKO said:
The disks are £30 each as I said, and £20 for the pads, £80 in total and no more than an hour and half to do them, including a brew.
For cheap quality parts. There is a substantial difference between OE discs and the rubbish that many motor factors stack their shelves withJ4CKO said:
OEM means nothing really, Volvo dont make disks, they buy from external suppliers who make the same disks for the aftermarket.
Not at all true. The reality is much different, and is often that the external suppliers are selling the parts that were too inferior (or rejected), or even produced by companies who don't have the quality standards to win such a contract.J4CKO said:
Dealers wont pay those prices for parts, they will buy from factors on a discount like any garage, they are counting on people just saying do it, nothing wrong with that, it is commerce but £463 seems a bit like piss taking.
No they're not, they're providing a service. The parts a dealer use don't come from motor factors at all, they are delivered directly from the manufacturer. Most OE parts only carry a 10% margin, and service parts (like filters) are, for the most part, the only large margin items.Sheepshanks said:
By mistake I was given a copy of the invoice sent to VW for the first service under VW's 3yr plan on daughter's Golf. £68.
Sounds like more mistakes were made than just that (as I worked in a VW service dept). Without seeing it, I'd suggest that they cocked up and put the wrong account code in (which will automatically cock up the lines and nullify any non-warranty labour lines) on Kerridge.I wouldn't worry though, as I worked with a lot of inept advisors who would lose money for the business on a daily basis by not invoicing correctly.
cj2013 said:
Sounds like more mistakes were made than just that (as I worked in a VW service dept). Without seeing it, I'd suggest that they cocked up and put the wrong account code in (which will automatically cock up the lines and nullify any non-warranty labour lines) on Kerridge.
I don't think it was a mistake. Car was in and out of the workshop in 20 mins (I waited). VW forum members report the 2nd year service (which only adds pollen filter a few more checks) and 3rd year service (same as first plus brake fluid) both invoice to VW at just over £100.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff