Current king of the hot hatch?
Discussion
ecsrobin said:
The problem with the merc is I can own an ST and a Renaultsport Clio and still have £10k in my pocket (based on top spec cars for all)
No one is saying otherwise.Are you saying then that the "best hot hatch" should have a caveat around price?
If making it "the best" makes it expensive, does that preclude it?
An m3 might be the best coupe but it's an awful lot more expensive than other coupes?
The original hot hatch was defined in terms of an affordable humble 3 door hatchback car with a bit of style/body kit, uprated engine, sports seats and interior but still affordable such that performance and excitement was brought within the reach of younger and family drivers.
Therefore, if we stay true to this definition then anything well over £20k and not a three door hatch does not qualify.
The Focus RS is the wrong side of £30k and not 5 door and its performance is well up the scale, more a hyper hatch. The Audi's and Mercs are in this division as well.
Therefore, if we stay true to this definition then anything well over £20k and not a three door hatch does not qualify.
The Focus RS is the wrong side of £30k and not 5 door and its performance is well up the scale, more a hyper hatch. The Audi's and Mercs are in this division as well.
Garvin said:
The original hot hatch was defined in terms of an affordable humble 3 door hatchback car with a bit of style/body kit, uprated engine, sports seats and interior but still affordable such that performance and excitement was brought within the reach of younger and family drivers.
Therefore, if we stay true to this definition then anything well over £20k and not a three door hatch does not qualify.
The Focus RS is the wrong side of £30k and not 5 door and its performance is well up the scale, more a hyper hatch. The Audi's and Mercs are in this division as well.
So very few cars meet your parameters then? In fact only superminis.Therefore, if we stay true to this definition then anything well over £20k and not a three door hatch does not qualify.
The Focus RS is the wrong side of £30k and not 5 door and its performance is well up the scale, more a hyper hatch. The Audi's and Mercs are in this division as well.
A clio rs doesn't as it's a five door
And a golf gti - the car that pretty much defined the term "hot hatch" isn't - as it fails your cost parameter?
Garvin said:
The original hot hatch was defined in terms of an affordable humble 3 door hatchback car with a bit of style/body kit, uprated engine, sports seats and interior but still affordable such that performance and excitement was brought within the reach of younger and family drivers.
Therefore, if we stay true to this definition then anything well over £20k and not a three door hatch does not qualify.
The Focus RS is the wrong side of £30k and not 5 door and its performance is well up the scale, more a hyper hatch. The Audi's and Mercs are in this division as well.
Peugeot 208gti by Peugeot Sport then.Therefore, if we stay true to this definition then anything well over £20k and not a three door hatch does not qualify.
The Focus RS is the wrong side of £30k and not 5 door and its performance is well up the scale, more a hyper hatch. The Audi's and Mercs are in this division as well.
Job jobbed
Great little cars! Even with that funky black and red paint, I'd happily own one!
Garvin said:
The original hot hatch was defined in terms of an affordable humble 3 door hatchback car with a bit of style/body kit, uprated engine, sports seats and interior but still affordable such that performance and excitement was brought within the reach of younger and family drivers.
.
Therefore, if we stay true to this definition then anything well over £20k and not a three door hatch does not qualify.
The Focus RS is the wrong side of £30k and not 5 door and its performance is well up the scale, more a hyper hatch. The Audi's and Mercs are in this division as well.
The golf gti cost £5444 in 1980..
Therefore, if we stay true to this definition then anything well over £20k and not a three door hatch does not qualify.
The Focus RS is the wrong side of £30k and not 5 door and its performance is well up the scale, more a hyper hatch. The Audi's and Mercs are in this division as well.
Factoring in inflation that's £25,400 today.
So even the original hot hatch - the golf gti - fails your affordability figure.
The cost thing is a bit misleading, Golf GTI's were always the pricey option even when there were better equipped and faster options, it was just a good all round package, not outstanding in any area but good in all and no major failings.
The Golf R is a hot hatch I guess but mentally I kind of think of it as more a modern take on the Evo/Impreza thing with the rough edges taken off.
M135i, a bit of an anomaly, it fits in by default but it is so different to anything else, six cylinders and RWD, especially the RWD aspect make it the black sheep of the class.
The Golf R is a hot hatch I guess but mentally I kind of think of it as more a modern take on the Evo/Impreza thing with the rough edges taken off.
M135i, a bit of an anomaly, it fits in by default but it is so different to anything else, six cylinders and RWD, especially the RWD aspect make it the black sheep of the class.
daemon said:
Garvin said:
The original hot hatch was defined in terms of an affordable humble 3 door hatchback car with a bit of style/body kit, uprated engine, sports seats and interior but still affordable such that performance and excitement was brought within the reach of younger and family drivers.
Therefore, if we stay true to this definition then anything well over £20k and not a three door hatch does not qualify.
The Focus RS is the wrong side of £30k and not 5 door and its performance is well up the scale, more a hyper hatch. The Audi's and Mercs are in this division as well.
So very few cars meet your parameters then? In fact only superminis.Therefore, if we stay true to this definition then anything well over £20k and not a three door hatch does not qualify.
The Focus RS is the wrong side of £30k and not 5 door and its performance is well up the scale, more a hyper hatch. The Audi's and Mercs are in this division as well.
A clio rs doesn't as it's a five door
And a golf gti - the car that pretty much defined the term "hot hatch" isn't - as it fails your cost parameter?
So rules out a lot of old hot hatches that only came in 5-dr form
J4CKO said:
The cost thing is a bit misleading, Golf GTI's were always the pricey option even when there were better equipped and faster options, it was just a good all round package, not outstanding in any area but good in all and no major failings.
The Golf R is a hot hatch I guess but mentally I kind of think of it as more a modern take on the Evo/Impreza thing with the rough edges taken off.
M135i, a bit of an anomaly, it fits in by default but it is so different to anything else, six cylinders and RWD, especially the RWD aspect make it the black sheep of the class.
The original gti though - not some of the dodgier later mk3 and mk4 examples was the very definition of a hot hatch.. based on a family hatchback, faster, better handling, sporty trimmings, etc.The Golf R is a hot hatch I guess but mentally I kind of think of it as more a modern take on the Evo/Impreza thing with the rough edges taken off.
M135i, a bit of an anomaly, it fits in by default but it is so different to anything else, six cylinders and RWD, especially the RWD aspect make it the black sheep of the class.
Surely the definition of a family hatch has changed though? It's nowuch bigger and typically five door?
Also re price, this has changed too - affordability tends to be a monthly payment.
So whilst a golf r would be ruled out for costing £30k it can be driven for the same monthlies as some £20k cars?
ecsrobin said:
Now back to the OP saying about the Competizione power delivery it is very much nothing nothing 3,000RPM GOOOOOOOO. But it gets a lot of attention, sounds great and handles well. And considering it's just a tarted up 500 I still like to take a glance as I walk away. And compared to the competition it holds its own and comes in and a very competitive price for what you get.
Is it the King? Who knows but I think it's a front runner.
that bit there!! Personally im after something that will put a smile on my face every time i see it or drive it, after test driving the 595 i could see that car giving that feeling. Its such an unsuspecting car the salesman needed to put fuel into it so i pulled into a petrol station, upon restarting the car the bewildered looks from others filling up said it all for me. the only fault i could find is it being too loud on cold startup and motorways, how have you found yours? Is it the King? Who knows but I think it's a front runner.
as for defining a hot hatch 3 door as a personal preference but manufacturers must be trying to make the market more accessible by people with children. I personally look more to a mid level hot hatch. i see the rs3 more grouped with the focus rs and a45 and at a push the megane as the high end hot hatch the higher power cars. the clio, fiesta, high end abath, peugeot 208 gti and mini cooper s are the mid layers still decent power whilst not being madly priced. with the likes of the suzuki swift and lower powered 500 abarths sitting in the lower group less power (doesnt mean less fun) and a more affordable car.
Lov31l said:
ecsrobin said:
Now back to the OP saying about the Competizione power delivery it is very much nothing nothing 3,000RPM GOOOOOOOO. But it gets a lot of attention, sounds great and handles well. And considering it's just a tarted up 500 I still like to take a glance as I walk away. And compared to the competition it holds its own and comes in and a very competitive price for what you get.
Is it the King? Who knows but I think it's a front runner.
that bit there!! Personally im after something that will put a smile on my face every time i see it or drive it, after test driving the 595 i could see that car giving that feeling. Its such an unsuspecting car the salesman needed to put fuel into it so i pulled into a petrol station, upon restarting the car the bewildered looks from others filling up said it all for me. the only fault i could find is it being too loud on cold startup and motorways, how have you found yours? Is it the King? Who knows but I think it's a front runner.
as for defining a hot hatch 3 door as a personal preference but manufacturers must be trying to make the market more accessible by people with children. I personally look more to a mid level hot hatch. i see the rs3 more grouped with the focus rs and a45 and at a push the megane as the high end hot hatch the higher power cars. the clio, fiesta, high end abath, peugeot 208 gti and mini cooper s are the mid layers still decent power whilst not being madly priced. with the likes of the suzuki swift and lower powered 500 abarths sitting in the lower group less power (doesnt mean less fun) and a more affordable car.
Every passenger I've had so far have said the sabelts are the most comfortable seats they've sat in for a car, that includes my 93 year old grandmother who also has tested the seats of Maseratis and Ferraris.
Cold start up is loud but it quietens down after a few minutes, you get used to all the smiles and looks at the petrol station.
And back on topic, for me 3 doors and around the £25k mark or less is what I would consider a hot hatch.
daemon said:
So very few cars meet your parameters then? In fact only superminis.
A clio rs doesn't as it's a five door
And a golf gti - the car that pretty much defined the term "hot hatch" isn't - as it fails your cost parameter?
The original hot hatches, as I said, were 3 door hatchbacks based on more humble/mundane fodder without huge modifications which kept them affordable to 'the masses'. I also said that 'if' we stay true to this definition. I also said 'well over' £20k. The VW Golf GTi was the most expensive back then and remains so.A clio rs doesn't as it's a five door
And a golf gti - the car that pretty much defined the term "hot hatch" isn't - as it fails your cost parameter?
No one has to stick to the definition but, if not, where is the line drawn to equate to a 'hot hatch'. £25k? 3 or 5 door? 0-60 in <7s but not <6s?
Without some defined boundaries for the genre it is nigh on impossible to define a 'king'.
I love hot hatches and have had quite a few. I test drove the new Civic Type R a couple of weeks ago and it was great, (I won't launch into a mini-review as it has been widely reviewed elsewhere) but I liked it a lot. Then I test drove a 2015 Mégane 265 and I LOVED it. It felt faster on acceleration weirdly, the Civic is quite linear in it's power delivery yet the Mégane feels brutal, bit like a Renault 5 GT Turbo in that regard, plus it felt easier to just pootle around when out of RS mode with a relaxing drive in the lovely heated leather seats.
I'm a Honda fanboy - I've owned a few Type R's - 2 DC2's, 2 DC5'S, and an EP3, yet my money went on the Mégane. The Civic is still a great car, but the Mégane just felt more bonkers to drive when on it, and more relaxing when plodding in traffic.
I'm a Honda fanboy - I've owned a few Type R's - 2 DC2's, 2 DC5'S, and an EP3, yet my money went on the Mégane. The Civic is still a great car, but the Mégane just felt more bonkers to drive when on it, and more relaxing when plodding in traffic.
I went for an Abarth 595 Competizione. 180bhp, LSD, a smidge over 1000kgs, Brembo 4 pot brakes, an amazing soundtrack with the monza exhaust, carbon fibre clad leather and alcantara buckets. My little gripe is the seat height, but then it's no worse than the new focus RS. For me it's more like an old school hot hatch than the over powered, over gripped options of the classs above. It's great fun (that's what it's about isn't it?)
roystinho said:
I went for an Abarth 595 Competizione. 180bhp, LSD, a smidge over 1000kgs, Brembo 4 pot brakes, an amazing soundtrack with the monza exhaust, carbon fibre clad leather and alcantara buckets. My little gripe is the seat height, but then it's no worse than the new focus RS. For me it's more like an old school hot hatch than the over powered, over gripped options of the classs above. It's great fun (that's what it's about isn't it?)
yeah thats something i found but i had just stepped out my clio which has pretty low seats as standard and has a 50mm drop in the suspension. do you use yours on track at all how do they take abuse? seems a big ask from the little 1.4 
Lov31l said:
roystinho said:
I went for an Abarth 595 Competizione. 180bhp, LSD, a smidge over 1000kgs, Brembo 4 pot brakes, an amazing soundtrack with the monza exhaust, carbon fibre clad leather and alcantara buckets. My little gripe is the seat height, but then it's no worse than the new focus RS. For me it's more like an old school hot hatch than the over powered, over gripped options of the classs above. It's great fun (that's what it's about isn't it?)
yeah thats something i found but i had just stepped out my clio which has pretty low seats as standard and has a 50mm drop in the suspension. do you use yours on track at all how do they take abuse? seems a big ask from the little 1.4 There are lowering kits for the seats, but you lose the tilt and slide, and my kids get in the back so need that.
Also, there's a real lack in adjustment on the steering wheel, so if you're a certain height/shape then you won't get comfortable. A friend of mine took it out and loved it, but he couldn't get in a comfortable position as there's no reach in the steering column. Luckily it's perfect for me (I'm 5'7'', he's more like 6')
Which Clio do you have?
Edited by roystinho on Sunday 23 October 23:08
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