Current king of the hot hatch?
Discussion
OP, you actually have one of the best hot hatches out there. It's easy to get side-tracked with the new generation of turbo power but it's all just a number's game now and they're much less special than they used to be.
The problem with the 197/200 is that they're heavier than the 172/182 so they need to be worked harder and also use quite a bit more fuel. I can imagine it's frustrating knowing there are other cars out there with bigger and more powerful engines that could get you similar economy.
The problem with the 197/200 is that they're heavier than the 172/182 so they need to be worked harder and also use quite a bit more fuel. I can imagine it's frustrating knowing there are other cars out there with bigger and more powerful engines that could get you similar economy.
Pixelpeep7r said:
The RS3 and A45 i think are hyper hatches rather than hot hatches. I know the ford isn't a million miles off in regards to performance but Audi/Merc are premium so puts them slightly above.
i suppose what i am trying to say is - are we to exclude them as they are not what has previously defined as a HH..?
Should we only class something that is FWD as a hot hatch and anything else a hyper hatch?
If we include all i would say the RS3 - if not maybe the civic?
If the RS3 is the 'king' of hot hatches then I am out.i suppose what i am trying to say is - are we to exclude them as they are not what has previously defined as a HH..?
Should we only class something that is FWD as a hot hatch and anything else a hyper hatch?
If we include all i would say the RS3 - if not maybe the civic?
FN2TypeR said:
Peugeot 208gti by Peugeot Sport then.
Job jobbed
Great little cars! Even with that funky black and red paint, I'd happily own one!
I agree with you there buddy. I have the regular 208GTi and its a great little car and a lot of fun, just what a hot hatch should be. I did try the PTS one and its a little too focused for me as I am not a youngster anymore but its great that you have the choice of hardcore car if you want. My nephew has just bought a brand new Fiesta ST3 and its interesting to drive them both side by side to compare the two, but my money is still on the 208. There's something out there to suit all tastes and no one car will perfect for everyone. Job jobbed
Great little cars! Even with that funky black and red paint, I'd happily own one!
I would say that there is an equation:
Performance + practicality + low costs + hatchback = hot hatch
The better the car scores in each area, the better it fits the hot hatch USP. Of course, something like the Pug 205 GTI had poor reliability and build quality, but great looks and driveability too so there would be other considerations.
The equation above is how I would define a hot hatch though. My favorite current one is the Ford Focus RS, but the King... wouldn't like to say.
Performance + practicality + low costs + hatchback = hot hatch
The better the car scores in each area, the better it fits the hot hatch USP. Of course, something like the Pug 205 GTI had poor reliability and build quality, but great looks and driveability too so there would be other considerations.
The equation above is how I would define a hot hatch though. My favorite current one is the Ford Focus RS, but the King... wouldn't like to say.
The 'best' hot hatch is the one you like most. If logic came into it there wouldn't be a hot hatch market; they're largely a heart decision.
I drove the ST and RS Focuses (Focii?) and all the 'hot' Golfs on the same day (GTI/PP and R) and despite it being the 'wrong' choice according to various people I bought a specced-up Golf GTI PP for R money. Why? Because I liked it best.
And that my friends, makes it the best hot hatch on sale today.
I drove the ST and RS Focuses (Focii?) and all the 'hot' Golfs on the same day (GTI/PP and R) and despite it being the 'wrong' choice according to various people I bought a specced-up Golf GTI PP for R money. Why? Because I liked it best.
And that my friends, makes it the best hot hatch on sale today.
AMGJocky said:
Pixelpeep7r said:
The RS3 and A45 i think are hyper hatches rather than hot hatches. I know the ford isn't a million miles off in regards to performance but Audi/Merc are premium so puts them slightly above.
i suppose what i am trying to say is - are we to exclude them as they are not what has previously defined as a HH..?
Should we only class something that is FWD as a hot hatch and anything else a hyper hatch?
If we include all i would say the RS3 - if not maybe the civic?
If the RS3 is the 'king' of hot hatches then I am out.i suppose what i am trying to say is - are we to exclude them as they are not what has previously defined as a HH..?
Should we only class something that is FWD as a hot hatch and anything else a hyper hatch?
If we include all i would say the RS3 - if not maybe the civic?
and it is mostly defiantly king for the the amazing engine and sound
it is also king of understeer on the limit
although to be fair if you only drive at 9/10ths almost nothing would keep up with it, especially in the wet and you would end up in jail for being twice over the limit everywhere The term 'best' is a tricky one as I'd assume in recent times the Focus RS or Golf-R would be up there for many people but they do very little for me. Exceptionally fast but I never considered a hot hatch to be the ultimate car, it was more a car that could be exceptionally fun, direct and useable.
I've owned five RenaultSports and all have been great so personally if I was in the market for a modern hot hatch that's where I'd be looking.
That said, the revvy normally aspirated hot hatches they used to build are behind them now so don't underestimate the Clio 197 you have OP. I still think the Twingo 133 was one of the most fun cars they built and that's relatively low powered but in my eyes an old skool kind of hot hatch.
I've owned five RenaultSports and all have been great so personally if I was in the market for a modern hot hatch that's where I'd be looking.
That said, the revvy normally aspirated hot hatches they used to build are behind them now so don't underestimate the Clio 197 you have OP. I still think the Twingo 133 was one of the most fun cars they built and that's relatively low powered but in my eyes an old skool kind of hot hatch.
No Polo GTi?
If by current you mean must be able to be bought brand-new today...
I'd probably have a closer look at an Alfa Guilietta Cloverleaf...or maybe wait for something fast from Volvo..
Maybe a 308 GTi, 208 GTi, or DS3 Sport thing.
The only reason I'd be looking at these is down to rarity. I realise the Golfs and Focii are 'better' and faster
I'm just bored of them and especially the £40k+ brigade, wtf.
If by current you mean must be able to be bought brand-new today...
I'd probably have a closer look at an Alfa Guilietta Cloverleaf...or maybe wait for something fast from Volvo..
Maybe a 308 GTi, 208 GTi, or DS3 Sport thing.
The only reason I'd be looking at these is down to rarity. I realise the Golfs and Focii are 'better' and faster
I'm just bored of them and especially the £40k+ brigade, wtf.
jonm01 said:
To satisfy the Hot Hatch ethos I think it has to be a small, three door car. So the current favourite would have to be the Fiesta ST.
Now you've done it If using the OP's term 'current' and your idea, the choice is narrowed somewhat as most are fat 5 doors!
Maybe the Polo GTi can make a case
Quickmoose said:
jonm01 said:
To satisfy the Hot Hatch ethos I think it has to be a small, three door car. So the current favourite would have to be the Fiesta ST.
Now you've done it If using the OP's term 'current' and your idea, the choice is narrowed somewhat as most are fat 5 doors!
Maybe the Polo GTi can make a case
I agree that the current versions of previous hot hatches (Focus RS, Civic Type R etc) are all a bit too big to be hot hatches. 5 doors too? No thanks.
Fiesta ST or the 500 would be the current king in my eyes.
I don't know where that places the Focus and Civic. Hot family cars? Doesn't quite have the same ring to it does it. Plus then the M3 would win. Hmm.
Fiesta ST or the 500 would be the current king in my eyes.
I don't know where that places the Focus and Civic. Hot family cars? Doesn't quite have the same ring to it does it. Plus then the M3 would win. Hmm.
The King of the Hot Hatches has been the Megane RS which still came out on top of the tree when put up against:
Focus RS Golf R Civic Type R Focus ST GTI etc then the Trophy R Version of the Megane beat the Golf Clubsport S so I'd consider that the King of Hot Hatches & it's a Three door.
If you want smaller then the Fiesta ST takes it with the 208 a close second & no Polo GTI in sight (sorry Joe) it all depends on what you class as a hot hatch.
Focus RS Golf R Civic Type R Focus ST GTI etc then the Trophy R Version of the Megane beat the Golf Clubsport S so I'd consider that the King of Hot Hatches & it's a Three door.
If you want smaller then the Fiesta ST takes it with the 208 a close second & no Polo GTI in sight (sorry Joe) it all depends on what you class as a hot hatch.
culpz said:
OP, you actually have one of the best hot hatches out there. It's easy to get side-tracked with the new generation of turbo power but it's all just a number's game now and they're much less special than they used to be.
Exactly, the only thing better than a 197 is a 200.Nothing that has come since has been even half as good from any manufacturer if you value the driving experience.
BaronVonVaderham said:
culpz said:
OP, you actually have one of the best hot hatches out there. It's easy to get side-tracked with the new generation of turbo power but it's all just a number's game now and they're much less special than they used to be.
Exactly, the only thing better than a 197 is a 200.Nothing that has come since has been even half as good from any manufacturer if you value the driving experience.
roystinho said:
BaronVonVaderham said:
culpz said:
OP, you actually have one of the best hot hatches out there. It's easy to get side-tracked with the new generation of turbo power but it's all just a number's game now and they're much less special than they used to be.
Exactly, the only thing better than a 197 is a 200.Nothing that has come since has been even half as good from any manufacturer if you value the driving experience.
Shame they never gave the 200 the trophy treatment.
I find it hard to put cars weighing more than a Saphire Cosworth in the hot hatch category which rules out all of the current 'super hatches' and none of the cars that are the correct size are very 'hot'
Therefore I conclude there are no hot hatches on sale today.
Bring out something 1100kg or under, and 300bhp or over, keep it the right side of 25k, and I'll take my place in the queue for my first ever new car.
Therefore I conclude there are no hot hatches on sale today.
Bring out something 1100kg or under, and 300bhp or over, keep it the right side of 25k, and I'll take my place in the queue for my first ever new car.
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