Current king of the hot hatch?
Discussion
culpz said:
OP, you actually have one of the best hot hatches out there. It's easy to get side-tracked with the new generation of turbo power but it's all just a number's game now and they're much less special than they used to be.
The problem with the 197/200 is that they're heavier than the 172/182 so they need to be worked harder and also use quite a bit more fuel. I can imagine it's frustrating knowing there are other cars out there with bigger and more powerful engines that could get you similar economy.
Yeah the clio is a really good car, ive done a few tweaks to help handling wise not that it needed it but i felt it was a bit too soft as standard. Its done well considering its 10 years old next year so is no spring chicken but does still take everything i throw at it The problem with the 197/200 is that they're heavier than the 172/182 so they need to be worked harder and also use quite a bit more fuel. I can imagine it's frustrating knowing there are other cars out there with bigger and more powerful engines that could get you similar economy.
I love the practicality of the hot hatch and have been interested by the views on this post. I like a hot hatch to be based on a standard car but have some obvious body shaping with a wider body and more aggressive front end something which i feel a lot of the vw's lack they're a bit too sensible looking although they do have oodles of power. The A45 is such a good looking car with the canards on the front and has a mass of power but is well above the others on price. The megane has got a good backing but the new generation soon to be out doesnt look as appealing to me its a bit chunky and bland. in the 3 door market the fiesta is obviously a good car and thats why they're everywhere being affordable and a brilliant drivers car but again ford haven't gone to town on the styling. fiat with the new face lift 500 abarth is a great looking and sounding car. the new clio sport is as good a mix as any but again very plain to the eye.
I understand its a case of what your after from a car but there has got to be certain ones that stand out from the crowd for sure in comparison to their competitors.
BaronVonVaderham said:
roystinho said:
BaronVonVaderham said:
culpz said:
OP, you actually have one of the best hot hatches out there. It's easy to get side-tracked with the new generation of turbo power but it's all just a number's game now and they're much less special than they used to be.
Exactly, the only thing better than a 197 is a 200.Nothing that has come since has been even half as good from any manufacturer if you value the driving experience.
Shame they never gave the 200 the trophy treatment.
d feel of the likes of the 80s 90s turbo hatches, thus he's just never quite gelled with the car, plus Fiat/Abarth aftercare he has experienced is awful. I drove his 595 and a Fiesta 1.0 ecoboost back to back and the Fiesta whilst lacking the soundtrack was robably a little bit more fun to drive, I suspect the ST would be significantly better.giger said:
Wow - all these posts and not one mention of the M2 (I know it's not a hatch). Has the M2 missed the mark or is it not valid in this discussion (even for performance comparison)
As you've mentioned it's not a hatch. It's also £45k base price which in my eyes and it seems others putting it way out of contention. MikeyMike said:
OP, in terms of fun and performance I doubt you'll find the Abarth 595 to be any form of progression from your 197. The 595 looks good and sounds fruity but the steering is pretty numb and as someone else mentioned the seating position is very high which is a real shame. Don't get me wrong, they're nice cars and you don't see many around but they don't have the polish or finesse of the Renaultsport Clios in terms of driving dynamics. My friend bought a 595 Competizione a couple of years ago hoping it would have much of the same fun qualities of his old Uno Turbo, but it doesn't have that turbo-nutter bd feel of the likes of the 80s 90s turbo hatches, thus he's just never quite gelled with the car, plus Fiat/Abarth aftercare he has experienced is awful. I drove his 595 and a Fiesta 1.0 ecoboost back to back and the Fiesta whilst lacking the soundtrack was robably a little bit more fun to drive, I suspect the ST would be significantly better.
The current model 595 has come a long way since those of a few years ago, d feel of the likes of the 80s 90s turbo hatches, thus he's just never quite gelled with the car, plus Fiat/Abarth aftercare he has experienced is awful. I drove his 595 and a Fiesta 1.0 ecoboost back to back and the Fiesta whilst lacking the soundtrack was robably a little bit more fun to drive, I suspect the ST would be significantly better.2172cc said:
FN2TypeR said:
Peugeot 208gti by Peugeot Sport then.
Job jobbed
Great little cars! Even with that funky black and red paint, I'd happily own one!
I agree with you there buddy. I have the regular 208GTi and its a great little car and a lot of fun, just what a hot hatch should be. I did try the PTS one and its a little too focused for me as I am not a youngster anymore but its great that you have the choice of hardcore car if you want. My nephew has just bought a brand new Fiesta ST3 and its interesting to drive them both side by side to compare the two, but my money is still on the 208. There's something out there to suit all tastes and no one car will perfect for everyone. Job jobbed
Great little cars! Even with that funky black and red paint, I'd happily own one!
MikeyMike said:
BaronVonVaderham said:
roystinho said:
BaronVonVaderham said:
culpz said:
OP, you actually have one of the best hot hatches out there. It's easy to get side-tracked with the new generation of turbo power but it's all just a number's game now and they're much less special than they used to be.
Exactly, the only thing better than a 197 is a 200.Nothing that has come since has been even half as good from any manufacturer if you value the driving experience.
Shame they never gave the 200 the trophy treatment.
d feel of the likes of the 80s 90s turbo hatches, thus he's just never quite gelled with the car, plus Fiat/Abarth aftercare he has experienced is awful. I drove his 595 and a Fiesta 1.0 ecoboost back to back and the Fiesta whilst lacking the soundtrack was robably a little bit more fun to drive, I suspect the ST would be significantly better.I'll admit, maybe close to the limit it doesn't quite match a 182 Trophy (I sold my T for the 595), but it's not that far away, and in a way it's a bit more tricky to drive which gives it a different type of challenge (if you get my point, I'm a few beers in)
Oh, I brought up the seating position, but it's perfect for me so all depends on your size/limb length
roystinho said:
Mike, I've got the latest 595 Competizione after all those Renaultsports, yes the steering isn't as connected as something like a 200 or 182 trophy, but show me a current car that does... But for fun, it has bags of it. I could have had pretty much any car up to about £30k, and chose this above all the VAG stuff and even some run out megane Cup-S's. For me having something at 180bhp and just over 1000kgs means it's quick but not so fast that it's too quick on the rd, it has the best soundtrack of any car with a 4pot turbo, it's really well damped now it has koni fsd all round, the diff is brilliant compared to ones without them.
I'll admit, maybe close to the limit it doesn't quite match a 182 Trophy (I sold my T for the 595), but it's not that far away, and in a way it's a bit more tricky to drive which gives it a different type of challenge (if you get my point, I'm a few beers in)
Oh, I brought up the seating position, but it's perfect for me so all depends on your size/limb length
thats one of my biggest issues as im 6ft 4, not the tallest but still above average, i managed to fit in a mk1 ka for a year and a half :') also managed to contort myself into a lotus elise the other day (not easy but manageable). i found with the seat fully back and the extra gained by the bucket seats that it wasn't a problem sitting in the little fiat. I think im going to continue with the clio for another year and keep an eye out for a yellow 595 and if one pops up that takes my fancy then i may be very interested I'll admit, maybe close to the limit it doesn't quite match a 182 Trophy (I sold my T for the 595), but it's not that far away, and in a way it's a bit more tricky to drive which gives it a different type of challenge (if you get my point, I'm a few beers in)
Oh, I brought up the seating position, but it's perfect for me so all depends on your size/limb length
as for the BMW 135 and 140 they are smashing cars!! just very sensible german. Audi have got it right on the german front for looks in my opinion.
rayyan171 said:
M135i/M140i
Amazing how they can put an executive saloon engine (7-series) into a small family hatchback.
Others have their advantages, but are all 4 cylinders, and their soundtrack doesn't appeal to me at all. Do like the suzuki swift sport though, well thought out car.
They fail to be able to live with the top hot hatches though, so I wouldn't say they're 'king' or really even that close.Amazing how they can put an executive saloon engine (7-series) into a small family hatchback.
Others have their advantages, but are all 4 cylinders, and their soundtrack doesn't appeal to me at all. Do like the suzuki swift sport though, well thought out car.
What are the rules for defining 'best hot hatch'?
Are we talking ANYTHING with a hatchback body? Does 'best' in hot hatch terms mean simply the fastest thing from point A to point B, regardless of layout, transmission, quality, practicality or reliability?
If we are, it's a case of looking on FastestLaps.com and getting the answer. It's presumably something silly. If we're not, it's probably going to be down to personal preference and is therefore pretty much every hatch ever made with the exception of the Citroen C3 (I'm confident nobody will suggest that).
In short: My best isn't your best.
Are we talking ANYTHING with a hatchback body? Does 'best' in hot hatch terms mean simply the fastest thing from point A to point B, regardless of layout, transmission, quality, practicality or reliability?
If we are, it's a case of looking on FastestLaps.com and getting the answer. It's presumably something silly. If we're not, it's probably going to be down to personal preference and is therefore pretty much every hatch ever made with the exception of the Citroen C3 (I'm confident nobody will suggest that).
In short: My best isn't your best.
jonm01 said:
To satisfy the Hot Hatch ethos I think it has to be a small, three door car. So the current favourite would have to be the Fiesta ST.
Using this logic, the latest flavour of the Clio RS would be out of the running - which I think would be a shame to exclude, based on the number of entry pointsecsrobin said:
daemon said:
ecsrobin said:
The problem with the merc is I can own an ST and a Renaultsport Clio and still have £10k in my pocket (based on top spec cars for all)
And you're comparing used with new.Also, they're well equiped as is, so if you dont want the extra toys, you can buy one at around £36,000 once discounted.
jonm01 said:
To satisfy the Hot Hatch ethos I think it has to be a small, three door car. So the current favourite would have to be the Fiesta ST.
The hot hatchback ethos was always make a fun performance oriented car from a family hatchback.At the time, that was the Golf, the Escort, etc. Sub classes then came in above and below that.
Those original hot hatches were 3 door because that was the common option body shape at the time.
These days 5 door hatches are more popular in that same "family hatchback" arena, so if its a 5 door, its a 5 door hot hatch variant.
PorkFan said:
I find it hard to put cars weighing more than a Saphire Cosworth in the hot hatch category which rules out all of the current 'super hatches' and none of the cars that are the correct size are very 'hot'
Therefore I conclude there are no hot hatches on sale today.
Bring out something 1100kg or under, and 300bhp or over, keep it the right side of 25k, and I'll take my place in the queue for my first ever new car.
Given a Sapphire Sierra was made out of biscuit wafers, hardly a relevant comparison.Therefore I conclude there are no hot hatches on sale today.
Bring out something 1100kg or under, and 300bhp or over, keep it the right side of 25k, and I'll take my place in the queue for my first ever new car.
daemon said:
Olivera said:
Lov31l said:
The A45 is such a good looking car ...
I disagree there, it looks like a bulbous turd.Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff