RE: Lynk & Co - what is it?
Discussion
technodup said:
think you're in dreamland...you're going to be disappointed.
I'm sure it won't all go that way, but between resurgent interest in retro stuff (ask your average teenage guitarist what his dream rig would be, chances are he'll say '58 Les Paul into a late-60s Marshall Plexi, or maybe a mid-50s Stratocaster into an early-60s Vox AC30... the retro phone market is small in comparison... and attempts to move the market forward into modernity end up failing. It's not just as simple as wanting what you remember from your childhood. Simplicity, longevity and classic design have an enduring appeal that speaks to all ages... there is still a desire for something that speaks to you, that has personality... if these marketing bods think they can persuade the youth to abandon all that for a deliberately non-designed car which has no redeeming features other than a Wifi connection, I think they may be sorely disappointed.RoverP6B said:
Simplicity, longevity and classic design have an enduring appeal that speaks to all ages... there is still a desire for something that speaks to you, that has personality...
I agree. I have 2 Technics 1200 turntables designed in 72 iirc, never bettered imo. BUT their classic design, longevity and simplicity didn't do much to halt the rise of CD, mp3 and now streaming. Vinyl is now a niche pursuit, and has been for years. (There is currently a bit of a hipster resurgence but it will be temporary).RoverP6B said:
if these marketing bods think they can persuade the youth to abandon all that for a deliberately non-designed car which has no redeeming features other than a Wifi connection, I think they may be sorely disappointed.
I have a marketing degree so am fairly qualified to comment. The youth aren't abandoning anything. The vast majority of them want something which will impress their friends, is cheap to insure and does decent mpg. The new car market is about as far from niche as you can get. The manufacturers know what people want. They give it to them. It's why youngsters don't buy cheap old Novas or Corsas and barry them anymore, they get a new Mini or A1 on finance.Your two boys are not representative of their generation. Not by a long chalk. Whether the west is ready for Chinese cars is another matter.
technodup said:
Whether the west is ready for Chinese cars is another matter.
<shrug> Why not? And that's even if the market associates Lynk with Chinese - they shout about their Volvo links, how many of Joe Public realise Volvo's been Chinese-owned for years?Then there's MG, of course. And LTI's black cabs. They're both CKD assembled here, of course.
But then there's Great Wall pickups. And DFSK sootyvans. And how long before PSA start importing Chinese-built? Plenty of Indian-built stuff being imported now, even by Ford.
TooMany2cvs said:
technodup said:
Whether the west is ready for Chinese cars is another matter.
<shrug> Why not? And that's even if the market associates Lynk with Chinese - they shout about their Volvo links, how many of Joe Public realise Volvo's been Chinese-owned for years?I've got a Chinese phone. It's every bit as good as a Samsung or Apple and it's a quarter the price. Guess which 99% of people would and do buy?
The problem here is that too many of you are viewing automotive design in isolation. That's not really how it works. If anything, the real reason kids are becoming disaffected with cars these days is that car design is becoming increasingly divorced from human reality. Notice that it's Minis and Fiat 500s which are selling strongly to the youth now - the Ford Ka has vanished and Vauxhall isn't selling many Adams or Corsas. I hardly see any French superminis now, and the VW Polo is largely driven by pensioners. Those who do well financially often end up in a 911 or F-type. It's modern takes on 50+ year old designs which the youth are keenest to buy - paralleling the resurgence in vintage gear in the musical instrument market.
As for vinyl sales, it's not some marginal niche thing doomed to fail. Vinyl is outselling CDs now and is catching up to paid MP3 downloads, which have taken a hammering with the advent of Spotify. The high quality of vinyl appeals to young audiophiles, and they're spending a lot of money on it as a result. If you want to see a temporary hipster-fuelled blip, I understand tape cassette sales, which had all but vanished, are on the way back...
Maybe it would be a niche, but I can see a market for something bigger than a Mini or a 500 which still has the appeal of a classic design. For example, if Alfa Romeo were to bring back the 105-series coupé on the Fiat 124/Mazda MX5 platform...
By the way, the CKD assembly at Longbridge is no more. MGs are now entirely Chinese-made. Attempts to sell them in the UK have flopped, and MG are pulling out as a result. If they'd invested in a British-made product, it could have been another matter.
As for vinyl sales, it's not some marginal niche thing doomed to fail. Vinyl is outselling CDs now and is catching up to paid MP3 downloads, which have taken a hammering with the advent of Spotify. The high quality of vinyl appeals to young audiophiles, and they're spending a lot of money on it as a result. If you want to see a temporary hipster-fuelled blip, I understand tape cassette sales, which had all but vanished, are on the way back...
Maybe it would be a niche, but I can see a market for something bigger than a Mini or a 500 which still has the appeal of a classic design. For example, if Alfa Romeo were to bring back the 105-series coupé on the Fiat 124/Mazda MX5 platform...
By the way, the CKD assembly at Longbridge is no more. MGs are now entirely Chinese-made. Attempts to sell them in the UK have flopped, and MG are pulling out as a result. If they'd invested in a British-made product, it could have been another matter.
technodup said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Yes, that's the point I just made.anonymous said:
[redacted]
You don't say. Like I said I think people still prefer US/EU owned but made in China to Chinese brands.It is changing though.
HTC have been high on the mobile tree since the early days of Android, at least.
RoverP6B said:
As for vinyl sales, it's not some marginal niche thing doomed to fail. Vinyl is outselling CDs now and is catching up to paid MP3 downloads, which have taken a hammering with the advent of Spotify. The high quality of vinyl appeals to young audiophiles, and they're spending a lot of money on it as a result.
I'm sorry, I'm an avowed vinyl man but it's the definition of a marginal niche. Outselling CDs or paid mp3s? Even if that's true the market is now streaming, so it's pretty irrelevant. Vinyl will never be mainstream again. The last bastion DJ market is gone, now it really is the retro/hipster and audiophile guys only. And they are niche AF.
Either way it's not important. Yes people want a Mini or 500 or 911. But a 2016 one, not a unreliable, rattling, no sat nav, no air con 1986 one. The design might be 'the same'ish but they are very different propositions.
technodup said:
'm sorry, I'm an avowed vinyl man but it's the definition of a marginal niche. Outselling CDs or paid mp3s? Even if that's true the market is now streaming, so it's pretty irrelevant.
Vinyl will never be mainstream again. The last bastion DJ market is gone, now it really is the retro/hipster and audiophile guys only. And they are niche AF.
Either way it's not important. Yes people want a Mini or 500 or 911. But a 2016 one, not a unreliable, rattling, no sat nav, no air con 1986 one. The design might be 'the same'ish but they are very different propositions.
I don't call rapid growth in sales past the $400m mark a marginal niche. http://fortune.com/2016/04/16/vinyl-sales-record-s...Vinyl will never be mainstream again. The last bastion DJ market is gone, now it really is the retro/hipster and audiophile guys only. And they are niche AF.
Either way it's not important. Yes people want a Mini or 500 or 911. But a 2016 one, not a unreliable, rattling, no sat nav, no air con 1986 one. The design might be 'the same'ish but they are very different propositions.
Sorry it's the Mirror, but BPI figures showing 62% growth in just three months. http://www.mirror.co.uk/money/vinyl-records-sales-...
And while there is something to your argument that people want modern convenience features in their cars, it still doesn't detract from the reality that several of the most successful designs of today are based in large part on old designs going back decades, updated incrementally - and the prices good examples of the originals are fetching at auction now show that their appeal is as great as it ever was. One could even argue that the DB9 was such a success because it looks like a 21st century DB6. Good E46s and E39s have bottomed out and are fetching decent money again - people recognise that they marked a high point in the history of automotive design. Now we've got the Germans and Jaguar designing by photocopier, many of them festooning their products with a host of ill-advised over-fussy design details (the BMW M4 is an unforgivable mess), the mass market looking less imaginative than ever before (other than the handful of retro designs), and the Chinese flooding the market with anti-enthusiast rubbish like this and the Macan knock-off...
The problem isn't that people aren't interested in cars any more. It's that the designers and marketing bulls
tteers are increasingly out of touch with reality. They think their art college diplomas and MBAs qualify them to understand the market, but they really haven't a clue. The one thing stopping them returning to classic design principles and reproducing modern versions of their past successes is ego. They're so convinced that they know best, that innovation is the only alternative to stagnation, they can't bring themselves to admit they couldn't design a beautiful car to save their lives. Even the greats have fallen: Ian Callum went from the DB9 to the F-Pace and the cookie-cutter XE/XF, Henrik Fisker from the Z8 to the bloated-whale Karma, Pininfarina gave us the Hyundai Trajet and Daewoo Tacuma, Giugiaro did the Daewoo Leganza... What we really need are designers with the talent and humility to produce something which at once looks modern and obviously references the classics. Few would disagree, I suspect, that a 60s Alfa Giulia is much better-looking than the current Giulia.RoverP6B said:
I don't call rapid growth in sales past the $400m mark a marginal niche. http://fortune.com/2016/04/16/vinyl-sales-record-s...
Compared to Spotify's $2bn? I do. That link says Justin Bieber is releasing a picture disc. His fans will be putting it on the wall, not playing it. A novelty item.RoverP6B said:
The problem isn't that people aren't interested in cars any more. It's that the designers and marketing bullstteers are increasingly out of touch with reality. They think their art college diplomas and MBAs qualify them to understand the market, but they really haven't a clue. The one thing stopping them returning to classic design principles and reproducing modern versions of their past successes is ego. They're so convinced that they know best, that innovation is the only alternative to stagnation, they can't bring themselves to admit they couldn't design a beautiful car to save their lives.
You think car companies don't research the market? Run focus groups? Do endless surveys? I'm ambivalent to the M4 but the X6 and 5GT I think are rancid. But people buy them. BMW are selling more than ever, up 7.5%, Mercedes (which I think look even worse) up 20%. Which says to me 'beauty' is well down the list of what people actually want in a car. I suspect safety, tech features and ease of finance come significantly higher in the priority list for most people. tteers are increasingly out of touch with reality. They think their art college diplomas and MBAs qualify them to understand the market, but they really haven't a clue. The one thing stopping them returning to classic design principles and reproducing modern versions of their past successes is ego. They're so convinced that they know best, that innovation is the only alternative to stagnation, they can't bring themselves to admit they couldn't design a beautiful car to save their lives. They produce what people want to buy or they kill the line quickly, or they'd be out of business. They also have various safety standards to adhere to which preclude certain characteristics of old. Like I said in my original response they understand their customers rather better than the 'everything was better in the old days' PH collective.
But we're clearly not going to agree so I'll leave it there. Enjoy the 1960s.
i just bought an e-bike on the same principals (how millenial is that?). An Indigogo campaign offered a very good looking spec, nice clean design, but the company was brand new with no history in normal bikes, and as we bought pre-production it offered a very good spec for the money compared to other larger established e-bike brands, as they also shipped direct from factory china. Have to say despite some early worries, the bike has turned out to be brilliant, and very high quality production. No reason why this can't work with cars... I think traditional distribution models are undoubtedly changing for things like this.
MonkeyMatt said:
Bit of a long shot but does anyone know where I can get any contact details for their head office, would very much like to get in touch with them
Just going to their website and clicking on "Company" comes up with...http://www.lynkco.com/en/company
Lynk website said:
China-Euro Vehicle Technology Aktiebolag
Theres Svenssons gata 7
SE-417 55 Göteborg, Sweden
Phone: + 46 (0)31 309 75 70
Theres Svenssons gata 7
SE-417 55 Göteborg, Sweden
Phone: + 46 (0)31 309 75 70
TooMany2cvs said:
MonkeyMatt said:
Bit of a long shot but does anyone know where I can get any contact details for their head office, would very much like to get in touch with them
Just going to their website and clicking on "Company" comes up with...http://www.lynkco.com/en/company
Lynk website said:
China-Euro Vehicle Technology Aktiebolag
Theres Svenssons gata 7
SE-417 55 Göteborg, Sweden
Phone: + 46 (0)31 309 75 70
Theres Svenssons gata 7
SE-417 55 Göteborg, Sweden
Phone: + 46 (0)31 309 75 70
MonkeyMatt said:
TooMany2cvs said:
MonkeyMatt said:
Bit of a long shot but does anyone know where I can get any contact details for their head office, would very much like to get in touch with them
Just going to their website and clicking on "Company" comes up with...http://www.lynkco.com/en/company
Lynk website said:
China-Euro Vehicle Technology Aktiebolag
Theres Svenssons gata 7
SE-417 55 Göteborg, Sweden
Phone: + 46 (0)31 309 75 70
Theres Svenssons gata 7
SE-417 55 Göteborg, Sweden
Phone: + 46 (0)31 309 75 70
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