All season tyres...where's the downside (for daily use)?
Discussion
Monkeylegend said:
Conti winters are decent tyres.
"Decent" perhaps, but certainly not particularly good in hot weather. Continental's own website says they'll take about 6m further to stop from 60 on warm wet roads than their equivalent summer tyre and the gap will be wider still in the dry; I think that would put them about the middle of the mid-range band of summer tyres. Probably adequate but certainly not exceptional.
kambites said:
"Decent" perhaps, but certainly not particularly good in hot weather. Continental's own website says they'll take about 6m further to stop from 60 on warm wet roads than their equivalent summer tyre and the gap will be wider still in the dry; I think that would put them about the middle of the mid-range band of summer tyres.
Probably adequate but certainly not exceptional.
I have run them continuously for the last 2 summers without any issues, they perform well in dry hot weather and more importantly their wet weather performance irrespective of temperature is very good.Probably adequate but certainly not exceptional.
kambites said:
Michelin Crossclimates have been better good reviews, although I haven't experienced them myself.
Just put a set on the missus' Golf Plus.They're winning all-season tyre reviews across Europe, including in the important German market.
I think the great thing about the tyre is its wet performance, an area where pure winter tyres are often left wanting. And we have a hell of a lot more rain in the UK than snow!
Monkeylegend said:
I think the all round performance of premium winter tyres now are getting to the point where they make summer tyres redundant.
I use ContiWinterContact TS830 on my BMW135i, in 'normal' (225/255 sizes) and due to various reasons have ended up running them well into milder (mid teens centigrade) spring temps, and they've been great, and have been half tempted to run them through into summer just to see how hot it has to get before they do fall off a cliff....
aeropilot said:
Monkeylegend said:
I think the all round performance of premium winter tyres now are getting to the point where they make summer tyres redundant.
I use ContiWinterContact TS830 on my BMW135i, in 'normal' (225/255 sizes) and due to various reasons have ended up running them well into milder (mid teens centigrade) spring temps, and they've been great, and have been half tempted to run them through into summer just to see how hot it has to get before they do fall off a cliff....
Ozzie Osmond said:
This stuff is all a lot of internet tarting about.
Unless you live on the North face of the Eiger just go out and buy some decent tyres.
Based on what evidence? Vs independent tests and millions spent by tyre manufacturers?Unless you live on the North face of the Eiger just go out and buy some decent tyres.
I would generally just get the best summer tyres possible, but I'm now doing a large amount of mileage before 6am and frequently based up in Sheffield (lots of hills).
I'd be annoyed if I'm prevented from getting to work or home (or worse) due to a poor tyre choice.
It's an old Merc, i'm not going to be doing trackdays, if I can find a tyre that isn't a major sacrifice in the summer but better for when I need it then I'll go for that (Early mornings and evenings)
Monkeylegend said:
I have run them continuously for the last 2 summers without any issues, they perform well in dry hot weather and more importantly their wet weather performance irrespective of temperature is very good.
This is sort of the point isn't it? Plenty of people have run the cheapest of ditch-finders for years without issue but some people would rather drive on bare rims than put them on. It all comes down to a question of "what's good enough?", which is an entirely personal thing. I run summer tyres all year 'round without issue. That doesn't mean I don't accept that winter tyres are better in the winter.
Just a thought, but your tyre bill won't be any higher if you run normal tyres outside of winter and winter tyres in winter. Think of it in terms of cost per mm of tyre wear (e.g. two sets of tyres will last the same mileage whether they're run one after the other, or one as winters and one as summers). There are distinct advantages to this tactic as well: optimal tyre wear (i.e. cost), road noise, ride, handling, and of course grip & road safety. Furthermore, taking your wheels off once a year gives you a chance to put the fronts on the back and vice versa, which evens tyre wear out, also saving you money. The only additional cost is that of a second set of wheels - I bought mine on E-Bay secondhand and will probably sell them for a similar amount. I've not got any experience with 'all season' tyres, but I can tell you that even decent winter tyres are nowhere near as nice as summers in terms of noise, ride and handling.
RobM77 said:
Just a thought, but your tyre bill won't be any higher if you run normal tyres outside of winter and winter tyres in winter.
This is only true if you do enough miles to wear out two sets of tyres before they need replacing due to age. Say the average person does 8000 miles a year and gets 40000 miles out of a set of tyres, they'd be ten years old by the time you replaced them if you were wearing two sets evenly. That's well beyond what manufacturers recommend.
ETA: So for me it would cost me pretty much twice as much because I already replace my tyres on age rather than wear.
Edited by kambites on Monday 24th October 09:18
I found downsides to CCs.
Squigy feeling on cold days when cornering can be unsettling. Aqua planes worse than other tyres, but tread design is probably the reason for that. Driven tyres wear quickly if used harder, like b roads, round abouts.
There are summer plus not all season tyres and for the money, over priced, I just stick to good summers now.
Squigy feeling on cold days when cornering can be unsettling. Aqua planes worse than other tyres, but tread design is probably the reason for that. Driven tyres wear quickly if used harder, like b roads, round abouts.
There are summer plus not all season tyres and for the money, over priced, I just stick to good summers now.
kambites said:
RobM77 said:
Just a thought, but your tyre bill won't be any higher if you run normal tyres outside of winter and winter tyres in winter.
This is only true if you do enough miles to wear out two sets of tyres before they need replacing due to age. Say the average person does 8000 miles a year and gets 40000 miles out of a set of tyres, they'd be ten years old by the time you replaced them if you were wearing two sets evenly. That's well beyond what manufacturers recommend.
ETA: So for me it would cost me pretty much twice as much because I already replace my tyres on age rather than wear.
Edited by kambites on Monday 24th October 09:18
Yes, of course, it will depend on mileage. I thought the average mileage was nearer 10-15k, and most people get less than 40k out of a set of tyres don't they in mixed driving? If those figures were 12.5k and 30k that's about two and a half years.RobM77 said:
Yes, of course, it will depend on mileage. I thought the average mileage was nearer 10-15k, and most people get less than 40k out of a set of tyres don't they in mixed driving? If those figures were 12.5k and 30k that's about two and a half years.I don't know what the average mileage from a set of tyres is but I'd be surprised if it's less than 40k. My parents (who are probably far more typical drivers than you or I) get about that out of a set of fronts, rears tend outlast their cars.
I've certainly never replaced tyres on tread depth.
Edited by kambites on Monday 24th October 09:39
kambites said:
It hasn't been that high for years, it's been 8 and 9k these days, both per driver and per road-registered car (there's about the same number of each).
I don't know what the average mileage from a set of tyres is but I'd be surprised if it's less than 40k. My parents (who are probably far more typical drivers than you or I) get about that out of a set of fronts, rears tend outlast their cars.
I've certainly never replaced tyres on tread depth.
Average tyre life depends on driving conditions. If you mostly do motorways you may get 40K miles. Generally seen as between 20-30K for an average car.I don't know what the average mileage from a set of tyres is but I'd be surprised if it's less than 40k. My parents (who are probably far more typical drivers than you or I) get about that out of a set of fronts, rears tend outlast their cars.
I've certainly never replaced tyres on tread depth.
Edited by kambites on Monday 24th October 09:39
Another tyre I can recommend is the Goodyear Vector All Season.
I also know you do/have put winter tyres on your wife's Octavia vRS. I think it would be difficult to find them for your Elise?
kambites said:
RobM77 said:
Yes, of course, it will depend on mileage. I thought the average mileage was nearer 10-15k, and most people get less than 40k out of a set of tyres don't they in mixed driving? If those figures were 12.5k and 30k that's about two and a half years.I don't know what the average mileage from a set of tyres is but I'd be surprised if it's less than 40k. My parents (who are probably far more typical drivers than you or I) get about that out of a set of fronts, rears tend outlast their cars.
I've certainly never replaced tyres on tread depth.
Edited by kambites on Monday 24th October 09:39
crosseyedlion said:
Hi all
I need 4 tyres on my old merc soon, not due to wear, but that the Michelin's are perishing!
I've always ruled out winter tyres due to the compromise in the summer. But what are tyres like Michelin's wintrac like used all year. Crap mpg, noisy? Rubbish dry/warm weather grip?
I'd just get good summers on again but I do a lot of driving before 6am now from Sheffield, the extra security around 0 and in the wet would be appreciated. 220 HP, rwd, no traction control, skinny 205 width tyres.
I wouldn't want to take a hit on mpg though, are they much worse?
It's a snow thing really, I know people give it the 'under 7 degrees' but all seasons and winters werent that far apart for me in general cold weather. I need 4 tyres on my old merc soon, not due to wear, but that the Michelin's are perishing!
I've always ruled out winter tyres due to the compromise in the summer. But what are tyres like Michelin's wintrac like used all year. Crap mpg, noisy? Rubbish dry/warm weather grip?
I'd just get good summers on again but I do a lot of driving before 6am now from Sheffield, the extra security around 0 and in the wet would be appreciated. 220 HP, rwd, no traction control, skinny 205 width tyres.
I wouldn't want to take a hit on mpg though, are they much worse?
I used to live in Crookes, and put winters on my old commuter Rover 25 to get to and from Newark every day. There was never a time I got stuck, other than being sat behind other traffic that couldgnt get up the hill heading towards Crookes Valley Park/Walkley in the snow. They were worth the money to me, but that was a 100hp diesel hatchback that I didnt really care too much about. I had all season Hankooks on the year before, and they didnt give me the same sense of 'I could just set off as normal up this hill' that the winters did. More wheelspin in the snow, less grip overall in the snow. If it's not snowing, there wasnt that much difference. If it is, the winters are just ace. I left them on all year round, through a warm summer they were fine. A little more road noise, but it was a low geared car anyway so it sounded a bit like a plane at speed
Living out in Luxembourg there is a legal requirement for tyres with the "M+S" (mud and snow, not nice sandwiches and cardigans) when winter conditions hit.
We put Vredestein Quatrac 5s on the E61 530d barge as it does big miles back and forth to the UK. For that kind of motoring you really cannot tell the difference. Plenty of grip in all conditions. If I had an alpine journey in winter planned, I would probably use a car with full winters, for everything else it's great and the convenience of not having to buy full winters and swap them twice a year is a big time and money saving.
We put Vredestein Quatrac 5s on the E61 530d barge as it does big miles back and forth to the UK. For that kind of motoring you really cannot tell the difference. Plenty of grip in all conditions. If I had an alpine journey in winter planned, I would probably use a car with full winters, for everything else it's great and the convenience of not having to buy full winters and swap them twice a year is a big time and money saving.
RobM77 said:
Just a thought, but your tyre bill won't be any higher if you run normal tyres outside of winter and winter tyres in winter. Think of it in terms of cost per mm of tyre wear (e.g. two sets of tyres will last the same mileage whether they're run one after the other, or one as winters and one as summers). There are distinct advantages to this tactic as well: optimal tyre wear (i.e. cost), road noise, ride, handling, and of course grip & road safety. Furthermore, taking your wheels off once a year gives you a chance to put the fronts on the back and vice versa, which evens tyre wear out, also saving you money. The only additional cost is that of a second set of wheels - I bought mine on E-Bay secondhand and will probably sell them for a similar amount. I've not got any experience with 'all season' tyres, but I can tell you that even decent winter tyres are nowhere near as nice as summers in terms of noise, ride and handling.
2 sets of tyres would be the ideal, yes. But I have no where to store them and have a history of changing cars every 6-12 months. So I wouldn't want a part worn set lying about to sell one. If I could get a set that prove decent in summer and an improvement in the winter (vs. summers) then Ill be laughing...
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