The End of the 'Punishment Pass'?

[heebeegeetee]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Why, when Europe has done it and doing it? IIRC the best we can manage is about 2% of journeys in a given city by bike, widely throughout Europe they manage 5, 10 and 20 times that and more. Are we so inferior that we can't do likewise?

[Mr Snrub]

IroningMan said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Have you been to London recently?

The prospect of change is rather more than zero.

London is not the UK though. In most parts of the country cyclists represent a tiny amount of road traffic, to the extent I can go days at a time without seeing one. So it is delusional to think the entire road network should be changed, billions spent and millions inconvenienced, just to accommodate said minority. On 95% of roads there is either no need or no space for a cycle lane, so all road users are going to need to learn how to get along.

[popeyewhite]

heebeegeetee said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Why, when Europe has done it and doing it? IIRC the best we can manage is about 2% of journeys in a given city by bike, widely throughout Europe they manage 5, 10 and 20 times that and more. Are we so inferior that we can't do likewise?

More car ownership, more crowded roads in the UK, nothing to do with inferiority. Oh, the weather's a bit better on the mainland as well. If the roads were quieter and the weather better I'd ride my bike more. As it is what's the point in sucking a lungful of carcinogenic fumes? The roads are just too busy IMO.

[IroningMan]

Mr Snrub said:

London is not the UK though. In most parts of the country cyclists represent a tiny amount of road traffic, to the extent I can go days at a time without seeing one. So it is delusional to think the entire road network should be changed, billions spent and millions inconvenienced, just to accommodate said minority. On 95% of roads there is either no need or no space for a cycle lane, so all road users are going to need to learn how to get along.

Learning to get along = see West Midlands Police initiative on close passes...

[gazza285]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Which even larger vehicles? All commercial vehicles over 3.5 tonnes has to have somewhere off road to keep them, so why should cars be allowed to clog up the roads for free?

Roads are for transport, not for car parking.

[SteveSteveson]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

bks. Roads are for all legal road users. What roads are not for is people who can't manage to share. My 4 year old niece can manage to share so I don't see why adults on the road can't.

[Mr Snrub]

gazza285 said:

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Which even larger vehicles? All commercial vehicles over 3.5 tonnes has to have somewhere off road to keep them, so why should cars be allowed to clog up the roads for free?

Roads are for transport, not for car parking.

Right, so I presume you never park your car on a public road? Not just at home but every time you drive somewhere you do not use on road parking?

Sometimes I have to stop and remind myself this is supposed to be a forum for car enthusiasts

[gazza285]

Mr Snrub said:

Right, so I presume you never park your car on a public road? Not just at home but every time you drive somewhere you do not use on road parking?

Sometimes I have to stop and remind myself this is supposed to be a forum for car enthusiasts

You know what? I'm struggling to remember the last occasion I did park on the road. Most places I drive to have car parks, as do most people's I should imagine. Most on road parking I see is in residential areas.

[Mr Snrub]

gazza285 said:

Mr Snrub said:

Right, so I presume you never park your car on a public road? Not just at home but every time you drive somewhere you do not use on road parking?

Sometimes I have to stop and remind myself this is supposed to be a forum for car enthusiasts

You know what? I'm struggling to remember the last occasion I did park on the road. Most places I drive to have car parks, as do most people's I should imagine. Most on road parking I see is in residential areas.

You must be lucky, since I regularly had to park on the road anywhere from big cities to small villages. Most small shops and businesses don't have off road parking, so are completely reliant on it for their trade. Every Post Office around here is now shoved into a corner shop with no allocated parking, so on the road is the only option. Usually it has to be illegally as there's no other option, and it's a case of run in and hope there isn't a queue

A lot of people in busier areas need permits to park, so they are already paying for the privilege. You don't get permits in outlying areas because they aren't needed. And besides, as someone else has already pointed out, a parked car causes the same amount of obstruction regardless of how much it is paying to be there

[frisbee]

Mr Snrub said:

You must be lucky, since I regularly had to park on the road anywhere from big cities to small villages. Most small shops and businesses don't have off road parking, so are completely reliant on it for their trade. Every Post Office around here is now shoved into a corner shop with no allocated parking, so on the road is the only option. Usually it has to be illegally as there's no other option, and it's a case of run in and hope there isn't a queue

A lot of people in busier areas need permits to park, so they are already paying for the privilege. You don't get permits in outlying areas because they aren't needed. And besides, as someone else has already pointed out, a parked car causes the same amount of obstruction regardless of how much it is paying to be there

But some how you magically never see a bike for days despite spending time in a variety different locations....

[Mr Snrub]

frisbee said:

Mr Snrub said:

You must be lucky, since I regularly had to park on the road anywhere from big cities to small villages. Most small shops and businesses don't have off road parking, so are completely reliant on it for their trade. Every Post Office around here is now shoved into a corner shop with no allocated parking, so on the road is the only option. Usually it has to be illegally as there's no other option, and it's a case of run in and hope there isn't a queue

A lot of people in busier areas need permits to park, so they are already paying for the privilege. You don't get permits in outlying areas because they aren't needed. And besides, as someone else has already pointed out, a parked car causes the same amount of obstruction regardless of how much it is paying to be there

But some how you magically never see a bike for days despite spending time in a variety different locations....

Well today I saw one, cycling along the pavement on his £20 Cash Converters mountain bike. Saw probably a couple of hundred cars parked on the road, but obviously they should have stopped somewhere else or worked harder so they can afford a driveway

[WinstonWolf]

anonymous said:

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We need less cars on the roads, not more. You don't *need* a car, you want one. Goods vehicles are necessary.

[Mr Snrub]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Why not downsize your fleet?

[WinstonWolf]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

They're rarely on the road, when I'm cycling I'm making room for those arrogant tts who think they have some divine right to use the roads for themselves.

Roads are for many forms of transport, that's why they're paid for from general taxation and not VED.

[Mr Snrub]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

If they're rarely used that's even more reason to sell. After all, you said yourself don't need them.

[Fastpedeller]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Indeed, maybe autonomous cars will help cyclists? Just cycle in front and the car won't be able to overtake Pedestrian wants to cross the road? - just step out, confident that the car will screech to a halt It will either be great or carnage!

[PHmember]

Mr Snrub said:

Why not downsize your fleet?

If they're all kept on private property why should he? He can only drive one at a time so it makes no difference whether he owns one car or ten cars.

[WinstonWolf]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Need and want are two different things.

To get it back on track I'm glad the police are finally giving this problem the publicity it deserves. Most drivers are very good, it's just the small minority who are st. They're frequently found in the st driving thread...

[Harji]

thecremeegg said:

Motor vehicles make up 99% of all traffic on the roads - if you don't like that stat, don't cycle on them.
I'm sorry but if I can pass a cyclist with a bit of gap and not knock them off then it's a safe pass in my books.
I'm a cyclist, but I ride off-road as I don't feel safe on the road (plus it's more fun!). Why must the majority pander to the needs of the few all the time?

In your book, but not in the highway code, or the police book, so it makes you wrong. As a driver, cyclist (also done a fair bit of mountain biking in the past) and soon to be motorcyclist, it's not pandering to anything, it's a safe margin as you were taught when passing your driving test. Are you pandering to pedestrians at zebra crossings as they hardly use the public road? Your answer is stupid basically.


ETA, I hope they use this technology for mobile phone usage in cars.

[DoubleD]

WinstonWolf said:

We need less cars on the roads, not more. You don't *need* a car, you want one. Goods vehicles are necessary.

I need my car, as do many others.