The End of the 'Punishment Pass'?

[zeDuffMan]

Sump said:

The reality being that there will just be an influx of those crazy cyclists who go out of their way to cause a confrontation.

"I got you on camera you fking wker. You're going on YouTube!" - runs away when driver walks towards them...

[popeyewhite]

Harji said:

In your book, but not in the highway code, or the police book, so it makes you wrong.

Actually not really. The HC specifies to give as much room as you would overtaking a car. A mini is not a very wide car. Some modern motorbikes are wider!

Harji said:

As a driver, cyclist (also done a fair bit of mountain biking in the past) and soon to be motorcyclist, it's not pandering to anything, it's a safe margin as you were taught when passing your driving test.

Safe is subjective. You don't need to give a huge car's width overtaking a pushbike, and I don't expect or ever seem to get that when I'm on mine. The roads are sadly just too busy. The volume of cars is so great there is absolutely no way every driver is going to wait for a full on car-style overtaking opportunity. Time for a reality check. I hope you don't expect to much when you get your bike on the road - if anything cars show less courtesy to motorbikes.

[Harji]

popeyewhite said:

Harji said:

In your book, but not in the highway code, or the police book, so it makes you wrong.

Actually not really. The HC specifies to give as much room as you would overtaking a car. A mini is not a very wide car. Some modern motorbikes are wider!

Harji said:

As a driver, cyclist (also done a fair bit of mountain biking in the past) and soon to be motorcyclist, it's not pandering to anything, it's a safe margin as you were taught when passing your driving test.

Safe is subjective. You don't need to give a huge car's width overtaking a pushbike, and I don't expect or ever seem to get that when I'm on mine. The roads are sadly just too busy. The volume of cars is so great there is absolutely no way every driver is going to wait for a full on car-style overtaking opportunity. Time for a reality check. I hope you don't expect to much when you get your bike on the road - if anything cars show less courtesy to motorbikes.

I need to cycle and ride a motorbike at least a doors width away from a parked vehicle, which I always try and do, though not always possible. Having recently digested the HC for motorcyclists it suggests that a sudden change of direction for cyclists (by a gust of wind) is possible, this change of direction has occurred to me on a cycle, motorbike and a car. So by leaving ample room you reduce the chance of any collision.

I've cycled regularly since about 2001, always a doors width from parked cars, never been beeped at.

[Mr Snrub]

PHmember said:

Mr Snrub said:

Why not downsize your fleet?

If they're all kept on private property why should he? He can only drive one at a time so it makes no difference whether he owns one car or ten cars.

Because complaining about there being too many cars on the road then admitting you don't really need yours is a tad hypocritical.

[Harji]

zeDuffMan said:

Sump said:

The reality being that there will just be an influx of those crazy cyclists who go out of their way to cause a confrontation.

"I got you on camera you fking wker. You're going on YouTube!" - runs away when driver walks towards them...

So would most ppl, being aggressive/violent doesn't make you hard. Having said that , I have been known to wave coffee beans at motorists whilst cycling, waved the one finger salute to drivers who are aggressive and offer opinions on their breeding, it's funny how drivers shut up when a cyclist like me doesn't bow over. And no, I don't wear a camera.

I've noticed, ppl very rarely get out of cars to have a fight with another driver, but will try and beat a cyclist up until they meet one which answers back, seen a few more cyclists answer back recently and the driver cower behind his car (in all cases I've seen it's been a driver pulling out without looking) around East London, which has appalling driving standards. However, drivers go after the 45-60 year old slightly pot-bellied cyclist on the way to the office, the ones they think they can bully.

I'm no red bull drinking powerfully built 6ft 2 company director (I'm a 5ft 11 ex-company director though)

[PHmember]

popeyewhite said:

The HC specifies to give as much room as you would overtaking a car. A mini is not a very wide car. Some modern motorbikes are wider!

popeyewhite said:

You don't need to give a huge car's width overtaking a pushbike

Am I reading this wrong or do you think the HC specifies that you should leave the width of a car when overtaking a cyclist?

The HC says:

'give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car'

Not

'Give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders the width of a 2002 BMW 7 Series when overtaking them'.

[PHmember]

Mr Snrub said:

PHmember said:

Mr Snrub said:

Why not downsize your fleet?

If they're all kept on private property why should he? He can only drive one at a time so it makes no difference whether he owns one car or ten cars.

Because complaining about there being too many cars on the road then admitting you don't really need yours is a tad hypocritical.

Not really, what difference does it make if they're on his own property? He can't drive them all at the same time can he?

[Mr Snrub]

PHmember said:

Mr Snrub said:

PHmember said:

Mr Snrub said:

Why not downsize your fleet?

If they're all kept on private property why should he? He can only drive one at a time so it makes no difference whether he owns one car or ten cars.

Because complaining about there being too many cars on the road then admitting you don't really need yours is a tad hypocritical.

Not really, what difference does it make if they're on his own property? He can't drive them all at the same time can he?

No, but as soon as they leave said property they are contributing to congestion and pollution

[PHmember]

Agreed.

But only one at a time. Like every other car driver in the country.

In actual fact he's easing congestion by keeping cars on private ground that otherwise could be parked on a road somewhere.

[Mr Snrub]

Which takes us right back to there being no room to park every vehicle off road. Still waiting for an answer from the other posters who advocated this as to whether they have off road parking by the way.

[popeyewhite]

PHmember said:

Am I reading this wrong or do you think the HC specifies that you should leave the width of a car when overtaking a cyclist?

The HC says:

'give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders at least as much room as you would when overtaking a car'

Not

'Give motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders the width of a 2002 BMW 7 Series when overtaking them'.

I'll clarify my point: Overtaking a Mini would take less overall room than van. An overtake on a Mini close to the side of the road might see the overtaker too close for comfort if the same room was given for a large motorbike.

[PHmember]

Ah right, so you're looking at it as overall room not just the gap between the cyclist & the car overtaking.

[TheLuke]

The problem isn't the gap, its peoples ability to judge distances, people drive way to big cars for them and cant judge distances, scrape them on walls etc.

I was driving round a blind 50mph right hand sweeping bend the other day to be met with a BMW X1 coming head on in my lane. They had decided to overtake a cyclist on a blind right hander and give a full car widths gap because they obviously weren't very good at judging distances. I had to slam on, It was an absolute joke. I nearly hit them head on.

I never have a problem overtaking cyclists close and surprisingly I never knock them off.

[WinstonWolf]

Mr Snrub said:

PHmember said:

Mr Snrub said:

PHmember said:

Mr Snrub said:

Why not downsize your fleet?

If they're all kept on private property why should he? He can only drive one at a time so it makes no difference whether he owns one car or ten cars.

Because complaining about there being too many cars on the road then admitting you don't really need yours is a tad hypocritical.

Not really, what difference does it make if they're on his own property? He can't drive them all at the same time can he?

No, but as soon as they leave said property they are contributing to congestion and pollution

I wasn't complaining, merely making a statement of fact. In rush hour I'll always take the bike, it's quicker than a car and it leaves more room for everyone else to sit in their cars stewing while their arteries harden

[heebeegeetee]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Is there any reason why we can't try to go for 5, 10, 15, 20% or more as is common throughout mainland Europe?

If you look at the European countries in this list, http://top10hell.com/top-10-countries-with-most-bi...

They can be colder than the UK, hillier, smaller, equally as congested if not more, yet they all seem to allow a fairer share of road space.

[WinstonWolf]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Roads are for everyone, cars have to pay to use them... I'm sorry but bicycles make sense for more journeys than they are currently used for. Councils are doing their darnedest to discourage car use, it's you who are deluded.

If people took to their bikes more there would be more room for journeys that *actually* need a car.

[WinstonWolf]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

There may be more motorised vehicles but they have no more priority than a bicycle. The more people cycle the better it is when we *need* to drive.

[SteveSteveson]

The issue is your argument is bizarre. Roads are for cars because there are more of them and they are bigger. It's just such an astoundingly stupid argument, especially in the context of why cars should make safe overtakes. As I said before, roads are for all users, and if you can't deal with that I suggest you should not drive. The roads are fine for all users, it just takes a basic bit of respect for other people.

Edited by SteveSteveson on Saturday 29th October 15:41

[popeyewhite]

I should imagine most B roads in the UK were originally designed for horse and cart, pulled coaches etc. Obviously dual carriageways and motorways are designed for cars and lorries.

[Devil2575]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

The conflicts are caused by bicycles and cars sharing the same space and car drivers taking out their frustrations on cyclists.