Hard Shoulder Safety

[surveyor]

Watching Winter Roads Rescue recently, one thing that is continuously emphasised is the danger that the crews are in when working on the hard shoulder. For once I don't think it is exaggerated - it's a proper scary place to be, especially in the dark or wet.

In the US (well Florida anyway) they have a law, which dictates that drivers should leave a clear lane between them and the emergency vehicle, and if they are not able to do so, they must reduce to 20 mph below the posted speedlimit.

To me this actually makes sense, and is something that could easily be replicated. Others thoughts?

[Iva Barchetta]

Yes, good idea but these managed motorways, how many people pay attention to the reduced limits ?

"Oh look ,overhead posted limit says 40 ,can't see anything wrong ,let's ignore it"

[7mike]

But isn't they danger from distracted/asleep drivers? How will they shift out of the way?

[Tryke3]

Iva Barchetta said:

Yes, good idea but these managed motorways, how many people pay attention to the reduced limits ?

"Oh look ,overhead posted limit says 40 ,can't see anything wrong ,let's ignore it"

Thats because the 40 limit sign has been on for 15 miles and most times there isnt any danger

[Blakewater]

The lack of hard shoulders on smart motorways is causing accidents, but widening motorways on the cheap is seen as worth the risk.

[cptsideways]

If they did motorway training in the driving test... This would be on my list. I always move across a lane if possible.

[Toltec]

cptsideways said:

If they did motorway training in the driving test... This would be on my list. I always move across a lane if possible.

I do that too, it seems weird that other drivers don't, especially on near empty roads.

[PositronicRay]

I broke down in France.

1st a police patrol car arrived, ascertained the car couldn't be driven and waited behind us, with flashing lights until a cone truck arrived and coned off the nearside lane. Then the tow truck arrived.

It felt safe and well organised, must have been subsided, the tow cost about 60E IIRC.

We were advised to stay in the vehicle, I believe in the UK they want you out of the car and waiting on the verge.

[Crumpet]

What are you supposed to do when you break down on a stretch of motorway with no hard shoulder? You're in a live lane so it would seem silly to start jumping out of the car to climb over the barriers. It seems incredibly dangerous to me and I would hope this never happens to me, let alone to my wife with the children in the car!

[randlemarcus]

Crumpet said:

What are you supposed to do when you break down on a stretch of motorway with no hard shoulder? You're in a live lane so it would seem silly to start jumping out of the car to climb over the barriers. It seems incredibly dangerous to me and I would hope this never happens to me, let alone to my wife with the children in the car!

Is it me, or is it reasonably obvious that your choices are, if the car is actually immobile, to abandon ship, and have a picnic behind the barriers, or stay in the nice boxy target in the live lane?

Not a hugely difficult choice.

[Drawweight]

A few years ago I was taking my van for a service. As it was summer we were going to get the spare van and go for a picnic somewhere.

Driving up the Edinburgh bypass it conked out. I managed to get it onto the dividing strip between the main road and a slip road.

While waiting for recovery what was one to do?

Obviously cross the slip road and set up the picnic on the banking at the side of the slip road.

Nothing risky at all but must have looked a bit of an odd spot for a picnic.

[caelite]

Last time I was dumped on the shoulder was either the M6 or M74, cant remember if I was over the border, the van I was in was leaking coolant and picked that moment for the radiator cap to pop off. It was pissing down so I decided to just go by the lorry drivers rule rather than the car, get as far left on the shoulder as you can and move the wheel full lock left so if you do get shunted you dont go into an active lane, sat for ~40minutes refilled the water when it was cooled down then drove on, made it just past Glasgow before I had ti stop again.

Plod stopped behind me, tried to get me to move along, explained I was overheating, they then told me to wait on the verge for a recovery truck (I didnt have breakdown cover, not my van), when I said it was pissing down id rather wait in the van they slipped the fact that all they can do in this situation is 'advise' . They sat behind me for ~10minutes then cleared lane 1 for me when I was ready to go, which was nice.

[BigLion]

Tryke3 said:

Iva Barchetta said:

Yes, good idea but these managed motorways, how many people pay attention to the reduced limits ?

"Oh look ,overhead posted limit says 40 ,can't see anything wrong ,let's ignore it"

Thats because the 40 limit sign has been on for 15 miles and most times there isnt any danger

I'm not sure you quite understand why average speed limits are displayed, often I'm the absence of any accidents.mMaybe because everyone is doing 40 this has prevented a traffic jam developing?

[Crumpet]

randlemarcus said:

Is it me, or is it reasonably obvious that your choices are, if the car is actually immobile, to abandon ship, and have a picnic behind the barriers, or stay in the nice boxy target in the live lane?

Not a hugely difficult choice.

Thanks for the patronising response. Clearly it's one of those two options and as the sole occupant it's an obvious choice. But have you tried getting infants out of a car? I don't think it's quite as clear cut in a case where you need to get two children out and you'd perhaps be outside the car on a busy carriageway for a minute or so. Once the lane's been closed and you can see the red Xs then I'd agree, it's an obvious choice again.

[carl_w]

Crumpet said:

Thanks for the patronising response. Clearly it's one of those two options and as the sole occupant it's an obvious choice. But have you tried getting infants out of a car? I don't think it's quite as clear cut in a case where you need to get two children out and you'd perhaps be outside the car on a busy carriageway for a minute or so. Once the lane's been closed and you can see the red Xs then I'd agree, it's an obvious choice again.

In that case I would be decamping all occupants through the passenger side (including the driver).

[SteveSteveson]

BigLion said:

I'm not sure you quite understand why average speed limits are displayed, often I'm the absence of any accidents.mMaybe because everyone is doing 40 this has prevented a traffic jam developing?

You won't win that argument. There has been a whole thread on it, with someone from one of the control centers answering questions and gave a tour to a group of people yet still it is a known "fact" that managed motorways just put the signs on to upset drivers.

Crumpet said:

randlemarcus said:

Is it me, or is it reasonably obvious that your choices are, if the car is actually immobile, to abandon ship, and have a picnic behind the barriers, or stay in the nice boxy target in the live lane?

Not a hugely difficult choice.

Thanks for the patronising response. Clearly it's one of those two options and as the sole occupant it's an obvious choice. But have you tried getting infants out of a car? I don't think it's quite as clear cut in a case where you need to get two children out and you'd perhaps be outside the car on a busy carriageway for a minute or so. Once the lane's been closed and you can see the red Xs then I'd agree, it's an obvious choice again.

A live lane is a massively dangerous place to be. Get everyone out the passenger side quickly and get well away from the car.

[anonymous-user]

SteveSteveson said:

You won't win that argument. There has been a whole thread on it, with someone from one of the control centers answering questions and gave a tour to a group of people yet still it is a known "fact" that managed motorways just put the signs on to upset drivers.

The algorithms used to set the monetised motorway speed limits are very much set on the side of over cautiousness though.... yes I do know that professionally.

[Blakewater]

cb1965 said:

SteveSteveson said:

You won't win that argument. There has been a whole thread on it, with someone from one of the control centers answering questions and gave a tour to a group of people yet still it is a known "fact" that managed motorways just put the signs on to upset drivers.

The algorithms used to set the monetised motorway speed limits are very much set on the side of over cautiousness though.... yes I do know that professionally.

We all know how they're supposed to work, but that doesn't mean they work with humans in cars in the same way they work in virtual reality flow models.

The system also relies on people driving faster than the limit to signal an improved flow of traffic and increase the limit again.

[Evanivitch]

If I see a vehicle on the hard shoulder and lane 2 is clearly I will move into it to pass the hazard. If lane 2 is not free then I keep to the right of lane 1.