Audi quits WEC and Le Mans for Formula E!!!
Discussion
hondansx said:
DonkeyApple said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
VonSenger said:
Sad state of affairs however it's spun. I honestly believe the ICE is doomed, especially if range increases.
i half suspect in 20 years time governments will be scratching their heads wondering how to deal with the huge environmental impact billions of tonnes of batteries has caused, in the same way they are now trying to work out how to undo all the damage encouraging most people to swap over to oil burners has causedand no one from the government has yet has put forward how you are going to charge 20 million EV's every day or how people who have no private parking are going to even charge them?
Charging won't be an issue as the grid has the night capacity. It's already shown that extensive EV adoption will result in the Grid being more efficient. Plus, the power packs in cars will be integrated into how the household draws power from the Grid.
There will be charging points fitted where people need them and buses to fill in the gaps.
Nothing will stop the march to EV of the Western governments. The black boxes alone that will tax you for the space you take up and tax you for each CM you move and tax you when you draw electricity as well as record your every movement to allow more efficient taxation on your other activities are simply far too much of a boner inducer to people who want to control everything you do and tax you for non compliance to their utopian dream.
And the people will rush headlong to give total control of their lives to these messiahs.
I'm afraid Dave, that your car is utterly unacceptable to a civilised society. The tracking of your activities and movements are too inefficient as are the means to charge taxation.
marmitemania said:
hondansx said:
DonkeyApple said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
VonSenger said:
Sad state of affairs however it's spun. I honestly believe the ICE is doomed, especially if range increases.
i half suspect in 20 years time governments will be scratching their heads wondering how to deal with the huge environmental impact billions of tonnes of batteries has caused, in the same way they are now trying to work out how to undo all the damage encouraging most people to swap over to oil burners has causedand no one from the government has yet has put forward how you are going to charge 20 million EV's every day or how people who have no private parking are going to even charge them?
Charging won't be an issue as the grid has the night capacity. It's already shown that extensive EV adoption will result in the Grid being more efficient. Plus, the power packs in cars will be integrated into how the household draws power from the Grid.
There will be charging points fitted where people need them and buses to fill in the gaps.
Nothing will stop the march to EV of the Western governments. The black boxes alone that will tax you for the space you take up and tax you for each CM you move and tax you when you draw electricity as well as record your every movement to allow more efficient taxation on your other activities are simply far too much of a boner inducer to people who want to control everything you do and tax you for non compliance to their utopian dream.
And the people will rush headlong to give total control of their lives to these messiahs.
I'm afraid Dave, that your car is utterly unacceptable to a civilised society. The tracking of your activities and movements are too inefficient as are the means to charge taxation.
DonkeyApple said:
While somewhat melodramatic the only real issue to EVs is the current high cost of batteries. Absolutely all other issues can already be resolved. And as governments love both monitoring their cattle as well as taxing it then EVs are far better at meeting those needs over ICE. I quite like the idea of EVs for the mundane driving but once they become the dominant private vehicle I can envisage a very serious change to the way we currently use our vehicles.
The only issue is not the high cost, I would suggest the cost now isn't really that bad. There are numerous other issues, weight, range, recycling . . . The biggest issue is how do you get people in flats and houses with no drive, in a position where they can charge their cars over night ? Our towns and cities are filled with properties which have nowhere to put a charging point. What about conservation areas ? Lots of them where even a Sky dish is prohibited . . . This is a real problem which will cost billions to address and nobody is even asking the questions yet, so EV works for a small minority of people right now and it's not going to go mainstream until the infrastructure is available and who will pay for that ? Councils have been starved of cash, government is wasting billions on things like HS2.
Anyway, Formula E is still tedious !
NerveAgent said:
For the majority of on street parking areas its not going to take too much thinking outside the box to get electricity to things by the kerb. I'm pretty sure they've done it with some other (albeit static) items quite a long time ago.
You have immediately identified why it's unlikely to happen anytime soon . . it requires "thinking outside the box" . . . apart from the cost. Blimey, Le mans will become a ghost town, All those Audi corporate boxes, track advertising and sponsorship.
The crowd may change too?
I could not even bother to raise two fingers at FE, I have Zero interest in it.
As much as Audis constant winning used to niggle me at times, I doff my cap to them for bringing us some great moments at Le mans. RIP Audi
The crowd may change too?
I could not even bother to raise two fingers at FE, I have Zero interest in it.
As much as Audis constant winning used to niggle me at times, I doff my cap to them for bringing us some great moments at Le mans. RIP Audi
hondansx said:
DonkeyApple said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
VonSenger said:
Sad state of affairs however it's spun. I honestly believe the ICE is doomed, especially if range increases.
i half suspect in 20 years time governments will be scratching their heads wondering how to deal with the huge environmental impact billions of tonnes of batteries has caused, in the same way they are now trying to work out how to undo all the damage encouraging most people to swap over to oil burners has causedand no one from the government has yet has put forward how you are going to charge 20 million EV's every day or how people who have no private parking are going to even charge them?
Charging won't be an issue as the grid has the night capacity. It's already shown that extensive EV adoption will result in the Grid being more efficient. Plus, the power packs in cars will be integrated into how the household draws power from the Grid.
There will be charging points fitted where people need them and buses to fill in the gaps.
Nothing will stop the march to EV of the Western governments. The black boxes alone that will tax you for the space you take up and tax you for each CM you move and tax you when you draw electricity as well as record your every movement to allow more efficient taxation on your other activities are simply far too much of a boner inducer to people who want to control everything you do and tax you for non compliance to their utopian dream.
And the people will rush headlong to give total control of their lives to these messiahs.
I'm afraid Dave, that your car is utterly unacceptable to a civilised society. The tracking of your activities and movements are too inefficient as are the means to charge taxation.
Audi's etron range have been out for a while but not selling much. I guess they need some advertising.
But they will need more than just advertising to sell those in France
https://translate.google.com/#fr/en/%C3%A9tron
But they will need more than just advertising to sell those in France
https://translate.google.com/#fr/en/%C3%A9tron
I love how as soon as EVs are mentioned all of the PH dinosaurs come out of the wood work and shout "ohh, but it'll NEVER work i tell you, never" despite there currently being more spending of money and effort in solving the relatively minor issues with mass electric transport than at any time has ever been spent on fossil fuels version!
1) You can't charge at home:
So what? You also can't fill you car up with petrol at home, so we came up with those cunning "petrol station" thingies. For EV's you can have a "petrol station" anywhere, with little risk, unlike fossil fuels where you need access for tankers, and several 10,000 litre tanks concreted securely underground and manned 24/7 to prevent idiots self immolating.... No access to a socket on the front of your house, tell you what, well just stick a few by the kerb, in a laybye, in a multistory carpark, outside the cinema/supermarket/shopping mall or million other places you can take your car.
2) The national grid will never cope:
Rubbish. Today, we have enough electricity to add approx 20 million nissan leafs charging EVERY NIGHT to the system without changing the peak generation capacity. Smart charging schemes, which are under going medium scale trails TODAY in the uk (google "electric nation for example) which control and phase recharging to avoid peak times make probably 30M EVs a possibility with our current infrastructure.
3) Batteries are the devil:
No, no they are not. They are easy to recycle, and have a significant second life potential in there existing format, unlike your broken ICE vehicle, which gets crushed when it breaks. For example, Tesla's Powerwall, or BMWs ibattery solution for home power storage, which as a nice side effect mean we can move the grid further away from fossil fuels to a higher renewable balance
4) Electric cars are expensive to make:
WRONG. Electric cars are cheaper to develop and make than ICE ones. The only reason we currently pay more is because of lower volumes. Mass production has demonstrated that the cost of an item is more closely linked to production volume than what it's made of. ICE are hugely complicated, and they reason they are cheap is because we've spent the last 100 years learning how to mass produce them. Apply that to EVs and the cost will (and already is) plummeting. If you'd never seen an ICE vehicle, and saw one for the first time you'd be amazed it was so cheap, for example, lets compare the energy conversion unit for an ICE and an EV:
ICE:
EV:
Now tell me which will be cheaper to make!
1) You can't charge at home:
So what? You also can't fill you car up with petrol at home, so we came up with those cunning "petrol station" thingies. For EV's you can have a "petrol station" anywhere, with little risk, unlike fossil fuels where you need access for tankers, and several 10,000 litre tanks concreted securely underground and manned 24/7 to prevent idiots self immolating.... No access to a socket on the front of your house, tell you what, well just stick a few by the kerb, in a laybye, in a multistory carpark, outside the cinema/supermarket/shopping mall or million other places you can take your car.
2) The national grid will never cope:
Rubbish. Today, we have enough electricity to add approx 20 million nissan leafs charging EVERY NIGHT to the system without changing the peak generation capacity. Smart charging schemes, which are under going medium scale trails TODAY in the uk (google "electric nation for example) which control and phase recharging to avoid peak times make probably 30M EVs a possibility with our current infrastructure.
3) Batteries are the devil:
No, no they are not. They are easy to recycle, and have a significant second life potential in there existing format, unlike your broken ICE vehicle, which gets crushed when it breaks. For example, Tesla's Powerwall, or BMWs ibattery solution for home power storage, which as a nice side effect mean we can move the grid further away from fossil fuels to a higher renewable balance
4) Electric cars are expensive to make:
WRONG. Electric cars are cheaper to develop and make than ICE ones. The only reason we currently pay more is because of lower volumes. Mass production has demonstrated that the cost of an item is more closely linked to production volume than what it's made of. ICE are hugely complicated, and they reason they are cheap is because we've spent the last 100 years learning how to mass produce them. Apply that to EVs and the cost will (and already is) plummeting. If you'd never seen an ICE vehicle, and saw one for the first time you'd be amazed it was so cheap, for example, lets compare the energy conversion unit for an ICE and an EV:
ICE:
EV:
Now tell me which will be cheaper to make!
Megaflow said:
hondansx said:
DonkeyApple said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
VonSenger said:
Sad state of affairs however it's spun. I honestly believe the ICE is doomed, especially if range increases.
i half suspect in 20 years time governments will be scratching their heads wondering how to deal with the huge environmental impact billions of tonnes of batteries has caused, in the same way they are now trying to work out how to undo all the damage encouraging most people to swap over to oil burners has causedand no one from the government has yet has put forward how you are going to charge 20 million EV's every day or how people who have no private parking are going to even charge them?
Charging won't be an issue as the grid has the night capacity. It's already shown that extensive EV adoption will result in the Grid being more efficient. Plus, the power packs in cars will be integrated into how the household draws power from the Grid.
There will be charging points fitted where people need them and buses to fill in the gaps.
Nothing will stop the march to EV of the Western governments. The black boxes alone that will tax you for the space you take up and tax you for each CM you move and tax you when you draw electricity as well as record your every movement to allow more efficient taxation on your other activities are simply far too much of a boner inducer to people who want to control everything you do and tax you for non compliance to their utopian dream.
And the people will rush headlong to give total control of their lives to these messiahs.
I'm afraid Dave, that your car is utterly unacceptable to a civilised society. The tracking of your activities and movements are too inefficient as are the means to charge taxation.
If it were guaranteed that people could retain ICE I'd be for EVs solving the battery issue as quickly as possible so they could legitimately become cheaper than ICE and so become the dominant road vehicle but as I suspect that dominance will result in ICEs being effectively fined off the roads then I find myself not wanting that solution to happen any sooner than it will.
George111 said:
DonkeyApple said:
While somewhat melodramatic the only real issue to EVs is the current high cost of batteries. Absolutely all other issues can already be resolved. And as governments love both monitoring their cattle as well as taxing it then EVs are far better at meeting those needs over ICE. I quite like the idea of EVs for the mundane driving but once they become the dominant private vehicle I can envisage a very serious change to the way we currently use our vehicles.
The only issue is not the high cost, I would suggest the cost now isn't really that bad. There are numerous other issues, weight, range, recycling . . . The biggest issue is how do you get people in flats and houses with no drive, in a position where they can charge their cars over night ? Our towns and cities are filled with properties which have nowhere to put a charging point. What about conservation areas ? Lots of them where even a Sky dish is prohibited . . . This is a real problem which will cost billions to address and nobody is even asking the questions yet, so EV works for a small minority of people right now and it's not going to go mainstream until the infrastructure is available and who will pay for that ? Councils have been starved of cash, government is wasting billions on things like HS2.
Anyway, Formula E is still tedious !
We could list all the standard problems put forward against EVs and none of them are actually issues. They all have solutions which can be implemented at any time they are needed. There is only one problem that stands in the way of EV dominance and that is that the current cost of batteries makes them too uncompetitive.
If batteries were cheap then an EV would cost a fraction of an ICE to both buy and maintain and you'd see everyone buying them instead of ICE as almost everyone ships by price. And at that point all the supposed issues would not exist because there are already solutions.
Cheap enough batteries will be the tipping point at which the West simply stop buying ICE utility transport vehicles overnight.
Was this really a surprise lmp1 regs are insanely expensive and complicated and when Porsche entered audi was never going to stay around. By by kolles entry and rebelleion the only other lmp1 entries going lmp1 is dead without more manufactures. Diesel is dead so will be soon lmp1 no great surprise audi have moved on to formula e where next year there be 8 manufactures.
Electric and formula e is the future the manufactures have moved with the times maybe the old dinosuars on here need to as well.
Electric and formula e is the future the manufactures have moved with the times maybe the old dinosuars on here need to as well.
I do like the WEC, seems more gritty and less tied-down than Formula E and certainly Formula 1. (Sadly), electric cars certainly appear to be the future of driving as well as autonomous driving,so looks like the WEC might need to go electric.
Audi made some good cars to go in the WEC, but after the dieselgate
it was obvious they had to cut most ties with diesel, including their R18. So it does make sense for them to consider Formula E, but it's bad news anyway. 
Audi made some good cars to go in the WEC, but after the dieselgate
it was obvious they had to cut most ties with diesel, including their R18. So it does make sense for them to consider Formula E, but it's bad news anyway. DonkeyApple said:
George111 said:
DonkeyApple said:
While somewhat melodramatic the only real issue to EVs is the current high cost of batteries. Absolutely all other issues can already be resolved. And as governments love both monitoring their cattle as well as taxing it then EVs are far better at meeting those needs over ICE. I quite like the idea of EVs for the mundane driving but once they become the dominant private vehicle I can envisage a very serious change to the way we currently use our vehicles.
The only issue is not the high cost, I would suggest the cost now isn't really that bad. There are numerous other issues, weight, range, recycling . . . The biggest issue is how do you get people in flats and houses with no drive, in a position where they can charge their cars over night ? Our towns and cities are filled with properties which have nowhere to put a charging point. What about conservation areas ? Lots of them where even a Sky dish is prohibited . . . This is a real problem which will cost billions to address and nobody is even asking the questions yet, so EV works for a small minority of people right now and it's not going to go mainstream until the infrastructure is available and who will pay for that ? Councils have been starved of cash, government is wasting billions on things like HS2.
Anyway, Formula E is still tedious !
We could list all the standard problems put forward against EVs and none of them are actually issues. They all have solutions which can be implemented at any time they are needed. There is only one problem that stands in the way of EV dominance and that is that the current cost of batteries makes them too uncompetitive.
If batteries were cheap then an EV would cost a fraction of an ICE to both buy and maintain and you'd see everyone buying them instead of ICE as almost everyone ships by price. And at that point all the supposed issues would not exist because there are already solutions.
Cheap enough batteries will be the tipping point at which the West simply stop buying ICE utility transport vehicles overnight.
And which council is going to volunteer to pay for installation of charging points on their roads ? I can't see central government paying for it and private companies won't without a guaranteed return which means the cars have to come first.
I'd bet on EVs not taking off until there have been further advances in battery technology or Hydrogen is pushed harder.
None of which explains why we still have diesel busses and coaches - these are ideal vehicles for conversion to battery as the weight and space aren't issues and most of them return to a fixed point every night where they can be charged.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff