Discussion
93DW said:
Ninja59 said:
My BMW dealer started on poor ground not approached by anyone or anything.
In sales this is something we can never win on! You approach someone and get "We were just looking and the sales guy just pounced on us, let us browse in peace!" if you don't approach someone you get the quoted response or "nobody approached me they must not want to sell cars!"93DW said:
In sales this is something we can never win on! You approach someone and get "We were just looking and the sales guy just pounced on us, let us browse in peace!" if you don't approach someone you get the quoted response or "nobody approached me they must not want to sell cars!"
A technique taught to me - that worked for both sides without fail - was to spot a potential buyer either in the showroom or outside and walk past them as if you're doing something else - a clipboard is ideal. Then a pleasant 'good morning' as you walk by. Then perhaps a follow up on the walk back: 'lovely day for it' if the sun is out or even 'you'd look good in that' if it was a lady looking at a Z4 or whatever. Just a gentle easing into a conversation, find out a bit about them. No sales pressure, just friendly chat. That leads to a more in depth conversation where you can ascertain if they're a buyer or a browser. A lot of sales folk will lose interest in browsers - big mistake.Sometimes the customer will want to be left alone - 'come and find me if you need anything' is just fine because more than likely, they will.
iSore said:
A technique taught to me - that worked for both sides without fail - was to spot a potential buyer either in the showroom or outside and walk past them as if you're doing something else - a clipboard is ideal. Then a pleasant 'good morning' as you walk by. Then perhaps a follow up on the walk back: 'lovely day for it' if the sun is out or even 'you'd look good in that' if it was a lady looking at a Z4 or whatever. Just a gentle easing into a conversation, find out a bit about them. No sales pressure, just friendly chat. That leads to a more in depth conversation where you can ascertain if they're a buyer or a browser. A lot of sales folk will lose interest in browsers - big mistake.
Sometimes the customer will want to be left alone - 'come and find me if you need anything' is just fine because more than likely, they will.
^^ Yes, that's the way to do it. The customer feels neither "pressured" nor "ignored".Sometimes the customer will want to be left alone - 'come and find me if you need anything' is just fine because more than likely, they will.
BigLion said:
Where do they find these people from though ?
I wonder if these people actually feel uncomfortable doing what they have to do, as it certainly doesn't look sincere - it just smacks of a lack on integrity.
It must be some daft training school and dealership management which forces them to be dress and then have to behave as such plums. They must be inspected every morning for shoe shininess.
The contrast with the service department folk is stark - the bloke who served me was polite, to the point, was smart but not pretentious and just behaved like a normal human being !!!
I wonder if I opened a dealership and just adopted a genuine unpretentious approach would we make a mark on the industry?!
ETA In fact I would have to say such an environment actually felt uncomfortable - surely the polar opposite of what dealers are trying to achieve...i feel like drafting a letter to send to the MD of one of these franchises
I have been on several training days at various places (I work in the industry but no longer as a salesman for which I am very grateful) and they have been teeming with the alpha male, gym obsessed, watch obsessed, hair product obsessed shysters constantly bragging about how much they pull down and how they went from being a dealer principal at 18 to being a sales executive because they earn more. I'm not sure much of it is anything other than usual young man nonsense but goddamn it irritates me, and I'm on the "right" side of the equation. The training courses I have been on tend to focus exclusively on "objection handling" and "closing" with next to no time spend on actual selling, product knowledge or communication. If memory serves the compulsory role play at such training was almost comically cringeworthy. I am lucky to work with two excellent sales execs and they both have the seemingly rare ability to make customers feel attended to and cherished and more often than not are listening rather than talking. I wonder if these people actually feel uncomfortable doing what they have to do, as it certainly doesn't look sincere - it just smacks of a lack on integrity.
It must be some daft training school and dealership management which forces them to be dress and then have to behave as such plums. They must be inspected every morning for shoe shininess.
The contrast with the service department folk is stark - the bloke who served me was polite, to the point, was smart but not pretentious and just behaved like a normal human being !!!
I wonder if I opened a dealership and just adopted a genuine unpretentious approach would we make a mark on the industry?!
ETA In fact I would have to say such an environment actually felt uncomfortable - surely the polar opposite of what dealers are trying to achieve...i feel like drafting a letter to send to the MD of one of these franchises
Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 27th October 22:10
A lot of this can be described by the classic interview question of "Sell me this pen", at which point the interviewer hands the salesman a pen. The correct answer is a question like "how long have you been in the market for a pen?", rather than a meaningless babble about the pen in question...Benjamyn999 said:
I have disliked the breed for many, many years. My wife chooses and buys her own cars but we go to the dealerships together. You can probably guess where this conversation is going. Recently she made an appointment with BMW dealer to test drive a new 5 Series with a credit card at the ready (so to speak). Salesman knew nothing about advantages or comparisons with E Class Merc. Just kept saying beemer was better but not why. Now waiting for Disco5 instead. And we would have bought on the day if only he had taken one millisecond to listen to us.
I think this whole thread stinks of Internet bulls
t, rammed full of dheads who aren't nearly as clever or knowledgeable as they think they are and I think this post demonstrates that ably.There are two types of comparison one might make between any two cars; those of fact and those of opinion. The facts can be found online and the opinions of a salesman for whom you so obviously feel nothing but contempt would be of what value, exactly?
This place needs to decide on a message and stick to it. Either all German saloons are sold to 'aspirational' types (whatever the hell that's supposed to mean) who care only about what The Joneses think, in which case the only thing the dealership staff need to know is how much per month you'll have to pay for the privilege. Alternatively, salesmen need to know the molecular composition of the silicone in the induction hoses because only the most knowledgeable and discerning buyers would set foot into such a dealership.
I've had cause in the past to deal with dealership types. Funny old thing, because I'm a proper human being with a personality and a brain, I got on fine with the staff. I treated them with respect and humour and got the same in return. I wouldn't fancy a weekend in a tent with any of them, but it's really not as hard as most of you seem insistent on making it.
Ah we all love the warm feeling derived from knowing more about the product than the salesman does. But has anyone here actually been properly misled in the showroom? Audi got done by Watchdog a year or so back when they filmed a salesman saying all their cars had a 5-star NCAP rating.
ThunderGuts said:
I have a couple of friends who are salesmen - one for BMW and one for Skoda.
When we were after our last car it was very nice just to go in and work through it as mates - tick the boxes we want, get guided away from the stuff which may not be useful / a value add for us.
Very refreshing.
So, some sales people treat certain customers differently?When we were after our last car it was very nice just to go in and work through it as mates - tick the boxes we want, get guided away from the stuff which may not be useful / a value add for us.
Very refreshing.
Naughty.
Mr Peel said:
Ah we all love the warm feeling derived from knowing more about the product than the salesman does. But has anyone here actually been properly misled in the showroom? Audi got done by Watchdog a year or so back when they filmed a salesman saying all their cars had a 5-star NCAP rating.
I guess anyone buying a Euro 5 VW diesel could say yes?ferrariF50lover said:
Benjamyn999 said:
I have disliked the breed for many, many years. My wife chooses and buys her own cars but we go to the dealerships together. You can probably guess where this conversation is going. Recently she made an appointment with BMW dealer to test drive a new 5 Series with a credit card at the ready (so to speak). Salesman knew nothing about advantages or comparisons with E Class Merc. Just kept saying beemer was better but not why. Now waiting for Disco5 instead. And we would have bought on the day if only he had taken one millisecond to listen to us.
I think this whole thread stinks of Internet bullst, rammed full of dheads who aren't nearly as clever or knowledgeable as they think they are and I think this post demonstrates that ably.There are two types of comparison one might make between any two cars; those of fact and those of opinion. The facts can be found online and the opinions of a salesman for whom you so obviously feel nothing but contempt would be of what value, exactly?
This place needs to decide on a message and stick to it. Either all German saloons are sold to 'aspirational' types (whatever the hell that's supposed to mean) who care only about what The Joneses think, in which case the only thing the dealership staff need to know is how much per month you'll have to pay for the privilege. Alternatively, salesmen need to know the molecular composition of the silicone in the induction hoses because only the most knowledgeable and discerning buyers would set foot into such a dealership.
I've had cause in the past to deal with dealership types. Funny old thing, because I'm a proper human being with a personality and a brain, I got on fine with the staff. I treated them with respect and humour and got the same in return. I wouldn't fancy a weekend in a tent with any of them, but it's really not as hard as most of you seem insistent on making it.
Secondly, not everyone thinks of all their questions in advance and researches them - salespeople should, in my opinion, know about their products they're selling so they can answer queries that arise during test drives or when looking at a car. If they don't know the answers, they shouldn't lie, they should find out for you. Salespeople in Apples stores seem to manage this just fine, and tales of woe such as mine a few pages ago don't happen at Apple Stores, or indeed other car manufacturers I've bought from such as Toyota or Lotus.
Also, in the example above for someone test driving a 5 series it's not at all unreasonable to expect a salesperson to have also tried an E Class (or a Jag XF) and to be able to discuss the relative advantages and disadvantages, or at least to hold a conversation on the subject. How would you feel if a salesman of uPVC windows didn't know anything about wooden windows and the pros and cons?
And no, we're not talking about silly irrelevant details like you made up above, we're talking about basic and fairly major things!
Also, regarding this from your post:
ferrariF50lover said:
This place needs to decide on a message and stick to it.
Eh? This is a discussion forum comprising of hundreds of car fans from all walks of life with a range of preferences and opinions. You seem to be mistaking Pistonheads for something different to that, as if we're some sort of grand jury who's job it is to come up with single definitive judgements on a range of topics?! You will not find that on any discussion forum, that's the whole point of them.And lastly, yes, there are some very good salesmen out there with whom I've got on just fine, just like you have. That's hardly surprising given that I've been driving for nearly 23 years. I've had some bad experiences at BMW dealerships over the years and, like others, wanted to chat about them with others on a discussion forum. That's ok isn't it?
Mr Peel said:
has anyone here actually been properly misled in the showroom? Audi got done by Watchdog a year or so back when they filmed a salesman saying all their cars had a 5-star NCAP rating.
Loads of people, yes. As I described a few pages ago, it's happened to me twice, both at BMW dealerships.funkyrobot said:
ThunderGuts said:
I have a couple of friends who are salesmen - one for BMW and one for Skoda.
When we were after our last car it was very nice just to go in and work through it as mates - tick the boxes we want, get guided away from the stuff which may not be useful / a value add for us.
Very refreshing.
So, some sales people treat certain customers differently?When we were after our last car it was very nice just to go in and work through it as mates - tick the boxes we want, get guided away from the stuff which may not be useful / a value add for us.
Very refreshing.
Naughty.
ThunderGuts said:
funkyrobot said:
ThunderGuts said:
I have a couple of friends who are salesmen - one for BMW and one for Skoda.
When we were after our last car it was very nice just to go in and work through it as mates - tick the boxes we want, get guided away from the stuff which may not be useful / a value add for us.
Very refreshing.
So, some sales people treat certain customers differently?When we were after our last car it was very nice just to go in and work through it as mates - tick the boxes we want, get guided away from the stuff which may not be useful / a value add for us.
Very refreshing.
Naughty.
What are these bits that you were "guided away from"? I ask as I will probably be "pulling the trigger" (what a cock-end's phrase that is) on a new-ish car tomorrow and am interested. I already know they'll be pushing the Gard-X, fixed service package, tyre insurance etc, but was wondering what you found?
I can even forgive lack of product knowledge - a lot of these guys are as thick as two short planks IME so I expect nothing - but it's the fact about how they come across in such a horrible way - dress, style, body language etc.
I have had far better experience at Porsche and Ferrari dealers - not sure what stupid training course bmw are sending their tools to! It's almost like they have been told to try to intimidate or exude excess amounts of confidence so a customer believes whatever you say.
Horrible freaks - wouldn't want to ever spend more time than I had to with them.
I have had far better experience at Porsche and Ferrari dealers - not sure what stupid training course bmw are sending their tools to! It's almost like they have been told to try to intimidate or exude excess amounts of confidence so a customer believes whatever you say.
Horrible freaks - wouldn't want to ever spend more time than I had to with them.
93DW said:
I used to work at a Skoda dealer with a guy who had a 20k+ post count on Briskoda, amazing knowledge, could tell you exactly how haldex worked in different weather condtions etc but ultimately he didn't make a good salesperson and we had a fair few complaints about him being OTT. One that sticks in my mind was a lady who bought a Fabia SE 1.2 (I'm sure you can tell how much she was into cars from that) and he spent 4 hours doing the handover! In the end she had to be blunt and tell him she was leaving.
Glad I wasn't the only one like this then 
I used to love knowing as much as possible about the cars I sold, but then I am A bit of a petrol head. TBH I found the smarmy pointy shoes sleaze bags sold as much as I did with almost zero product knowledge. The only difference was I had return custom and they very rarely did.
KTF said:
OpulentBob said:
fixed service package
The manufacturer backed service packages can be a bargain compared to paying for each one individually so don't discount them until you have seen the numbers.The protection stuff is pure snake oil though.
Tyre insurance (read the detail about limitations and wear etc), shortfall aka gap - cheaper elsewhere, 'cosmetic repair' insurance. All not taken from BM.
The best thing was not having to go through the 'are you sure Sir' b
ks fifty times.ThunderGuts said:
Thats the badger.
Tyre insurance (read the detail about limitations and wear etc), shortfall aka gap - cheaper elsewhere, 'cosmetic repair' insurance. All not taken from BM.
The best thing was not having to go through the 'are you sure Sir' bks fifty times.
To be fair I've bought my last three cars from main dealers and not once did they give a stuff after the initial 'Not for me, thanks' on all the extra crap. Just a polite introduction to the product, me saying no thanks, job done.Tyre insurance (read the detail about limitations and wear etc), shortfall aka gap - cheaper elsewhere, 'cosmetic repair' insurance. All not taken from BM.
The best thing was not having to go through the 'are you sure Sir' b
ks fifty times.RobM77 said:
Also, in the example above for someone test driving a 5 series it's not at all unreasonable to expect a salesperson to have also tried an E Class (or a Jag XF) and to be able to discuss the relative advantages and disadvantages, or at least to hold a conversation on the subject.
Why would a BMW salesman have driven the competitors to every car BMW make? We did the rounds earlier this year looking for a small hatchback - visited most of the usual suspects and had a test drive in all of them - Ford, Renault, VW, Seat. It may have been at the bottom end of the market but I found the (all male) sales people generally easy to deal with, polite, attentive and knew their products well. We ended up buying a Fiesta because, despite its age, it is still a cracking car to drive even in 1 litre 3 cylinder form. However, the general experience was fairly positive - the Ford sales guy had his Ford fleece on, rather than a shiny suit and was very easy to deal with. Perhaps the problem is at the top end of the market and the manufacturer's are as much to blame as the dealers themselves. They expect so much to be spent on the showroom etc. in order to align with 'brand' values that there's no money left to either pay the sales people properly or, it seems, train them either on the products or softer skills. Has anyone been to the BMW dealer in Reading, as an example? Holy cow - how much does that cost to run!
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