RE: Lotus Evora Sport 410: Review

[RobM77]

blueg33 said:

RacerMike said:

blueg33 said:

RacerMike said:

Aha. The perfect car for the Pistonheads audience of powerfully built directors and their MX5s! I have no doubt at all that Lotus will sell next to none of them as anyone sane (or indeed with the money) would be heading to their nearest Stuttgart representative...

Obvious troll is obvious.

Ok. It was mildly trolling, but let's be realistic here. For every 1 car Lotus sells, Porsche sell 25 911s or Boxster/Caymans. It's very easy to sit on a forum and proclaim your love for an £82k sports car that you'd definitely have 'if you had he money', but that doesn't sell cars does it? What sells cars is appealing to the people who actually have the money, and in a ratio of 25:1, those people choose a Porsche over a Lotus. Lotus trade on a back to basics approach with a total focus on driving dynamics which appeals to people in the £25-35k price bracket. People in the £50-100k price bracket clearly don't want this. It's ok being niche, as long as that niche market has a lot of people in it. Unfortunately, Lotus' niche doesn't, and until they realise that, they're going to continue to be outsold 25:1.

I think the Lotus niche is small because their marketing and visibility is poor. There is a big shiny Porsche dealer in a prominent position in almost every sizeable town, you see Porsches on the roads all day every day. Of people aren't aware of a car they won't buy it. That doesn't mean the car is flawed. It takes time to build that level of brand awareness and Lotus dropped the ball years ago on this.

I have a chap at the office, who has a 997 which he bought from new. He had no idea the Evora existed until he saw mine. He had a go in it, and now he has replaced his car, he has an Evora 400. he is not a petrol head, is not a member of these forums, but is what I would call a typical Porsche buyer. Well paid, moderately successful, nice house, nice wife, Audi or Merc as a daily, conscious of brand and badges. The Evora is changing his understanding of cars and what they can be as an event in themselves rather than an appliance with the right badge.

Look at Aston, you see one everyday since they sorted their marketing, built flashy dealerships etc. I tried a V8V again last week. As a drivers car its not a patch on the S1 Evora, but it has nice leather and slinky styling, looks great and above all, people know it exists.

I think this is spot on.

[Ryvita]

RobM77 said:

I think this is spot on.

Agree as well, but surely the counter to that is that the ubiquity of these popular products (Porsche, Aston) means that the rarity of the Lotus makes it stand out more and...

Oh my god I was about to start pushing Lotus as a hipster brand. Ugh. I feel dirty. Will go and wash my mouth out with engine oil and say ten Hail Chapmans.

Edited by Ryvita on Wednesday 2nd November 11:17

[chrispj]

RobM77 said:

I think this is spot on.

Yes, unless you live in SE England, in most places you have to make an effort to buy and own a Lotus with dealers being quite a distance away. Not passing the shiny dealership every other day will mean Lotus don't even make it onto most people's radars.

[RobM77]

Ryvita said:

RobM77 said:

I think this is spot on.

Agree as well, but surely the counter to that is that the ubiquity of these popular products (Porsche, Aston) means that the rarity of the Lotus makes it stand out more and...

Oh my god I was about to start pushing Lotus as a hipster brand. Ugh. I feel dirty. Will go and wash my mouth out with engine oil and say ten Hail Chapmans.

Edited by Ryvita on Wednesday 2nd November 11:17

I think if a car is as rare as the Evora though it doesn't give people a good feeling about putting £80k of their hard earned into it. There's a balance to be struck.

Personally though, I don't get this whole rarity thing - I buy cars because I like driving them.

[W124]

I delivered a GTR this morning. List price 83k. It was alllright. Fast and oddly comfortable now. But it's huge! Been a few months since I drove one and, incredible as they are, there is very little to be got from a car like that in the South East of the UK. Much too big and WAY too fast. Ditto the 911 Turbo and especially the F-Type R. I brought back an RS6 the other day and realised afterward that I'd had a much more enjoyable drive in the utterly basic Seat Mii I drove down in. Too big, way too fast and much too flatulent in sound. Stupid things. Farting and bludgeoning down the road with all the grace of a drunken John Prescott. That is why Lotus are surviving. Joy can be had at same speeds. The suspension and steering actually working together, the sensation of brakes holding back little mass. No wasted energy. Joy. You can go at a rapid clip if you want, but you don't HAVE too.

[Guvernator]

Ryvita said:

Agree as well, but surely the counter to that is that the ubiquity of these popular products (Porsche, Aston) means that the rarity of the Lotus makes it stand out more and...

Oh my god I was about to start pushing Lotus as hipster brand. Ugh. I feel dirty. Will go and wash my mouth out with engine oil and say ten Hail Chapmans.

Rarity might give people who like to stand out from the crowd that warm fuzzy feeling of being "different" but they aren't really good for the manufacturer. A rare cars means a car that isn't selling well. Lotus have almost gone under several times by making lovely "rare" cars.

Also agree and re-iterate that Lotus currently aren't geared up to sell an £80k+ car. Hardcore enthusiasts who'll put up with driving hundreds of miles to to their nearest Lotus dealer, crap finance deals and crappy customer service just to experience the best handling car in the business aren't a large enough market to make Lotus a success and certainly not if they want to sell their cars for £80k.

[shibby!]

RacerMike said:

The reason is that Porsche offer incredibly competitive finance, great customer service, a premium brand name that people want, perceived reliability, strong residuals and a great image. Oh, and they're also pretty quick and handle quite well. Basically, people buying in this market care very much for the former, and very little for the latter

Lotus are offering 50:50 0% finance deals and their APR rate are lower than Porsche . 3 year warranties, and i thought the residuals were pretty much the best of any car manufacturer (outside of the Porsche GT models).

Edited by shibby! on Wednesday 2nd November 11:50

[matsoc]

chrispj said:

Yes, unless you live in SE England, in most places you have to make an effort to buy and own a Lotus with dealers being quite a distance away. Not passing the shiny dealership every other day will mean Lotus don't even make it onto most people's radars.

This is also a big issue in Europe, I believe that Lotus could do a lot better worldwide with more dealers. In NW Italy until recently you had to reach Bergamo to find a dealer.

[Ikobo]

Guvernator said:

Rarity might give people who like to stand out from the crowd that warm fuzzy feeling of being "different" but they aren't really good for the manufacturer. A rare cars means a car that isn't selling well. Lotus have almost gone under several times by making lovely "rare" cars.

Also agree and re-iterate that Lotus currently aren't geared up to sell an £80k+ car. Hardcore enthusiasts who'll put up with driving hundreds of miles to to their nearest Lotus dealer, crap finance deals and crappy customer service just to experience the best handling car in the business aren't a large enough market to make Lotus a success and certainly not if they want to sell their cars for £80k.

Which Lotus dealer have you had these bad personal experiences with?

[RobM77]

W124 said:

I delivered a GTR this morning. List price 83k. It was alllright. Fast and oddly comfortable now. But it's huge! Been a few months since I drove one and, incredible as they are, there is very little to be got from a car like that in the South East of the UK. Much too big and WAY too fast. Ditto the 911 Turbo and especially the F-Type R. I brought back an RS6 the other day and realised afterward that I'd had a much more enjoyable drive in the utterly basic Seat Mii I drove down in. Too big, way too fast and much too flatulent in sound. Stupid things. Farting and bludgeoning down the road with all the grace of a drunken John Prescott. That is why Lotus are surviving. Joy can be had at same speeds. The suspension and steering actually working together, the sensation of brakes holding back little mass. No wasted energy. Joy. You can go at a rapid clip if you want, but you don't HAVE too.

This perfectly describes why I like Lotuses It's natural to hanker after more and more speed, but soon you realise that it's not actually that enjoyable, barely ever possible, and always illegal. A Lotus gives the driver enjoyment at any speed - sure, you can go fast in those fleeting moments where you can, but the rest of the time all the feedback provides the entertainment.

[Guvernator]

Ikobo said:

Which Lotus dealer have you had these bad personal experiences with?

I've not owned a Lotus although I plan to in the future. However I have two friends who do and both have regaled me with stories, from 2 separate Lotus dealers I might add, often enough to make me think there is some truth in it.

[Ikobo]

Guvernator said:

I've not owned a Lotus although I plan to in the future. However I have two friends who do and both have regaled me with stories, from 2 separate Lotus dealers I might add, often enough to make me think there is some truth in it.

You'll get negative opinions from any owner of a car from any manufacturer. Personally, from actual ownership experience, my local Lotus dealer has been consistently better than any other car brand I've owned a car from. Where as brands that are constantly raved about here have been among the worst.

[RobM77]

Guvernator said:

Ikobo said:

Which Lotus dealer have you had these bad personal experiences with?

I've not owned a Lotus although I plan to in the future. However I have two friends who do and both have regaled me with stories, from 2 separate Lotus dealers I might add, often enough to make me think there is some truth in it.

I guess there's bad eggs in every basket. I can say that the three dealers I've dealt with have all been brilliant.

If you're London based then I'd highly recommend taking the trip to Bell and Colvill in West Horsley, just outside the M25. They looked after both my Lotuses over my ten year ownership period and sold me my second and I can only say good things about them for parts, sales and the events they organise. Highly recommended. I sadly sold my last Lotus to go back to motorsport (I couldn't afford both ), but when I'm too old to drive racing cars I hope to be back there to buy an Evora

[Tuna]

Ikobo said:

Guvernator said:

Rarity might give people who like to stand out from the crowd that warm fuzzy feeling of being "different" but they aren't really good for the manufacturer. A rare cars means a car that isn't selling well. Lotus have almost gone under several times by making lovely "rare" cars.

Also agree and re-iterate that Lotus currently aren't geared up to sell an £80k+ car. Hardcore enthusiasts who'll put up with driving hundreds of miles to to their nearest Lotus dealer, crap finance deals and crappy customer service just to experience the best handling car in the business aren't a large enough market to make Lotus a success and certainly not if they want to sell their cars for £80k.

Which Lotus dealer have you had these bad personal experiences with?

Point to where they.. ok, enough.

When did you last sit in an Evora, Guvernator? I don't know what they're going to have to do to convince you that things are changing. It's interesting that the Americans - with the least experience (and prejudice) of Lotus are the ones who're responding first to the new models. Of course you're always going to be able to spot the links to Lotus of years past, and if that's got a bad association for you, it might make it difficult to appreciate the rest of the car.

I've always had exceptional service from Lotus dealers - except for one bad patch where the much more 'experienced' local VAG dealer got involved (VX220 times) and had hold 'music' that enthusiastically tried to sell me a van.

It's true they're not the scale of Porsche, and that becomes a circular thing. The answer to 'why would you buy an Evora' is "have you sat in one recently?". The answer to 'why did you buy a Porsche?' often starts with "I used to drive past the dealer every day and saw a 911 in the window...".

On the other hand, the continual good press surrounding Hethel is having an effect. Hopefully we'll see a few more dealers that make that vital test drive an easy option.

[The Wookie]

Guvernator said:

I've not owned a Lotus although I plan to in the future. However I have two friends who do and both have regaled me with stories, from 2 separate Lotus dealers I might add, often enough to make me think there is some truth in it.

Depends what dealer you go to like any manufacturer. I've had crap service and excellent service at both Porsche and Lotus Dealers, the only thing that's typically lacking is the full posh glass fronted showroom for the latter.

I also bought my last Evora on a cracking finance deal offered by the dealer that I couldn't get anywhere near with anyone else.

[Guvernator]

Really, why are almost all Lotus fans so touchy? I have no problem with the cars, in fact I think they are brilliant. That doesn't change the fact that I don't think Lotus as a company are geared up to sell £80k cars. You can't go from selling a handful of cars a year at £30k a pop to suddenly selling thousands of £80k cars overnight.

They finally seem to be getting their act together at the manufacturing end and making cars which have other tangible and marketable qualities besides the obvious "they handle really well", what they now need to do is sort out the PR and retail side to make sure enough people know about it.

[The Wookie]

Guvernator said:

Really, why are almost all Lotus fans so touchy? I have no problem with the cars, in fact I think they are brilliant. That doesn't change the fact that I don't think Lotus as a company are geared up to sell £80k cars. You can't go from selling a handful of cars a year at £30k a pop to suddenly selling thousands of £80k cars overnight.

They finally seem to be getting their act together at the manufacturing end and making cars which have other tangible and marketable qualities besides the obvious "they handle really well", what they now need to do is sort out the PR and retail side to make sure enough people know about it.

I wasn't being touchy, I was just commenting on what you said. FWIW I think the new car is overpriced, I'd just disagree that an 80k price tag at one of their decent dealerships is an issue, especially for what is a pretty specialist and minimal volume car.

[shibby!]

I agree they do need to sort out their PR and Marketing.

I have bought a new Exige. Despite being Evo car of the year (tied 2013), and consistently reviewed well no one knows what it is, and when i tell them its an Exige they think it has the old 1.8 engine instead of the V6. Maybe Topgear didnt review it?

But then, do i really want them to sell as many as Porsche? probably not, i like the rarity!

I had never driven a Lotus until i passed the dealership in Edinburgh and popped in to see them in the flesh on a trip to Ikea, was offered a drive, loved it..... bought it! Didnt actually plan on buying so soon, was more of a mooch around doing my research before i made a decision a few months later.

I think they need to get the cars out there and get people in them if they want to sell. However! if they are producing at capacity already, then why bother!

Another plus point........ Lotus will actually sell you a car, Porsche will not (GT4, GT3 etc)

[Guvernator]

The Wookie said:

I wasn't being touchy, I was just commenting on what you said. FWIW I think the new car is overpriced, I'd just disagree that an 80k price tag at one of their decent dealerships is an issue, especially for what is a pretty specialist and minimal volume car.

Fair enough, I think it's at least £10k overpriced for what Lotus current brand image, PR presence and dealership network can support but that's just my opinion.

[Vee12V]

shibby! said:

Maybe Topgear didnt review it?

TG didn't. Reason why is because they once used an Evora S in a dragrace with with a Cayman (and something else) IIRC. The Evora lost and then TG didn't review it later on. Lotus was pissed and didn't want to give them the Exige afterwards. Monumentally stupid decision!

Lotus' PR, press and marketing department are one of the worst in the industry. If existing at all.