RE: TT RS vs 718 Cayman S vs F-Type S: POTW

[Ho Lee Kau]

nickfrog said:

Ho Lee Kau said:

Besides, your C63AMG is flawed as well, it does not have AWD and with the power it sends to back wheels it is not all-weather-all-season vehicle.

Makes no sense - 4wd on summers certainly is NOT all-weather. C63 on winters is a great winter car.

Maybe where you're at. I want to see you going up alpine road in the winter in that C63AMG. I've seen a few crashed and stranded. In my book - not all-weather all-purpose car = flawed. Plus that ipad in the cockpit... I've sat in 450 with roof hatch, lowered the seat fully, and still had almost no space above and in front of the head (I do tend to lift back of the seat quite vertically because I like that driving position).

[Ho Lee Kau]

kambites said:

HighwayStar said:

That won't matter... Plenty of PHers will declare, because Quattro, the numbers and can be chipped to silly hp, the RS the winner

I suspect more will declare the Porsche a winner because it's a Porsche.

I've had / have both and I say Audi is the winner on the grounds of being more practical car.
But it is not really playful and it did (previous model) understeer (I did 301kmh on winter tyres in February on German Autobahn though :-) ).
That's why I sold mine within 18 months despite 420hp, 600nm, free flowing loud exhaust and manual transmission.
I went Porsche way and so far not looking back.
I did not pamper TTRS as much as I pamper Porsche though. :-)

Edited by Ho Lee Kau on Thursday 17th November 21:18

[Ho Lee Kau]

nickfrog said:

kambites said:

I suspect more will declare the Porsche a winner because it's a Porsche.

Or because it happens to be a driver's car compared to the others ?

It does steer very well, believe me.

[Ho Lee Kau]

ash73 said:

I'd have the Audi out of these three, no question. You can have fun in any of them, so the choice comes down to image and what they are like to live with. The Audi screams quality while the 4-pot Porsche and look-at-me Jag do nothing for me, but it's just personal preference.

Mind you, I'd have a M2 plus a fast bike over all of them.

I have manual 997T (575hp/780Nm, suspension and exhaust done), 3.4L PDK Boxster S (ceramics, sport suspension, sport exhaust)....but I much rather ride one of my four sportsbikes, even when my left hand almost freezes off. :-) No car beats a 600+ cc sportbike for excitement!

[Ho Lee Kau]

blade7 said:

kambites said:

blade7 said:

All on the same tyres I'd be impressed if the RWD cars got near the TT-RS in winter conditions.

I don't think anyone is claiming they will; the question is weather that matters in the slightest and obviously the answer to the question is personal preference.

If I was running one car all year round being able to put the power down in all weather conditions would matter to me, so I'd have the TT-RS. If it was a fair weather 2nd car I'd have the Cayman S.

exactly!

[Ho Lee Kau]

blade7 said:

nickfrog said:

blade7 said:

If I was running one car all year round being able to put the power down in all weather conditions would matter to me

Do you reckon it has good traction on summers in the snow ?

My BMW 328 couldn't get up my drive on packed snow. My A4 quattro did easily...

didn't you read, the C63AMG is perfect on winter tyres

[Ho Lee Kau]

Wayne58 said:

ReaperCushions said:

Agree, but I'm shocked any of them are over 40k.

If I had 60k to spend it wouldn't be anywhere near this lot.

I agree, 60k buys one hell of a 911/Audi R8/M4 etc etc. Lot of choice at that kind of money, and I'd want more than a TT or 4 pot Cayman for 60k.

second hand - yes, you can find lots of bargains for 60k. TTRS is brand new with all kind of electronics toys, if you like that in your 2.5L-5pot-sound-amazing 400hp Haldex car then there is no substitute.

[Ho Lee Kau]

Roger Irrelevant said:

I'm glad I was sitting down when I read this else I might have fallen down - I'm genuinely amazed to learn that an Audi TT RS is £60k. I'll admit it's a car I know very little about and I'm sure it's brilliant, but Jesus Christ that seems expensive - I would have guessed £40k.

Totally, in fact should be 20k, or rather for free

[truck71]

Will this test actually materialise?

[scherzkeks]

Ho Lee Kau said:

blade7 said:

nickfrog said:

blade7 said:

If I was running one car all year round being able to put the power down in all weather conditions would matter to me

Do you reckon it has good traction on summers in the snow ?

My BMW 328 couldn't get up my drive on packed snow. My A4 quattro did easily...

didn't you read, the C63AMG is perfect on winter tyres

C350 cdi here, so similar tq specs. The tq hits earlier in the rev range of course, and it is a handful in winter. Have had a few quattro Audis as well; there is no comparison. Numerous winter trips down to Berchtesgaden and no problems whatsoever. The Merc, on the other hand, is usable to a point, but it sits when we get serious snow.

[Smokey32]

Ho Lee Kau said:

Makes no sense.

You have two cars each with it's own purpose.
Here in the article we select one car for all purposes.
If you cross C63AMG with Elise S you get a flawed product as well.
Besides, your C63AMG is flawed as well, it does not have AWD and with the power it sends to back wheels it is not all-weather-all-season vehicle.

P.S. I do agree there are negatives to the above cars, TT has no feel (but fast and sounds nice, and all-weather pony), Boxster has turbo-4-pot (but steers beautifully, I have 3.4L BoxsterS with ceramics and sport suspension myself), Jaguar is just shaguar.

Edited by Ho Lee Kau on Thursday 17th November 20:48

I wonder how many people who will be buying the 3 cars in question are going to rag them round in the winter? Really who takes a 2 seat sports car out in bad weather? These kinda comments are moronic.

90% of the time there a second car. And even if there not, how many people with 4wd go out for a b road blast in the snow and rain and fog? bks.

[nickfrog]

scherzkeks said:

Ho Lee Kau said:

blade7 said:

nickfrog said:

blade7 said:

If I was running one car all year round being able to put the power down in all weather conditions would matter to me

Do you reckon it has good traction on summers in the snow ?

My BMW 328 couldn't get up my drive on packed snow. My A4 quattro did easily...

didn't you read, the C63AMG is perfect on winter tyres

C350 cdi here, so similar tq specs. The tq hits earlier in the rev range of course, and it is a handful in winter. Have had a few quattro Audis as well; there is no comparison. Numerous winter trips down to Berchtesgaden and no problems whatsoever. The Merc, on the other hand, is usable to a point, but it sits when we get serious snow.

As ever https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STaximkaQxo

Having said that, if someone has such poor throttle modulation skill as to needing 4wd AND winters, I am really glad Quattro exists for them, no skin off my nose.

[Pan Pan Pan]

Steve H said:

ash73 said:

I'd have the Audi out of these three, no question. You can have fun in any of them, so the choice comes down to image and what they are like to live with. The Audi screams quality

Really? To me Audi screams blandness and keeping up with the neighbours; the ultra-performance version any mainstream model of car will always feel like a boggo box with bits bolted on.

It would be the Porsche for me but I'd have to be sold on the new engine or I'd be buying one of the last six-pots and enjoy the inevitable glacial level of depreciation.

I am not sure whether you would be able to find a new six Cylinder Cayman, as it could be, that most, if not all the last of the six pots were sold a while ago. It would be an interesting exercise to see if a would be buyer `can' still get hold of one in the UK if they really want the sixer over the four.

[Steve H]

^^^^^ True, I was thinking more of a well specced used car in this case.

[ORD]

All the talk about needing AWD in the winter is funny if you live in the South of England. I don't know about the rest of the country, but carting around a 4WD system all year in the South is insane. I've driven uniquely RWD for years and years and never once had the slightest issue.

Would I drive in snow? Nope. But I wouldn't in an AWD Audi on summer tyres either. Probably wouldn't even on winter tyres - you can't stop the other car crashing into you.

[HighwayStar]

ORD said:

All the talk about needing AWD in the winter is funny if you live in the South of England. I don't know about the rest of the country, but carting around a 4WD system all year in the South is insane. I've driven uniquely RWD for years and years and never once had the slightest issue.

Would I drive in snow? Nope. But I wouldn't in an AWD Audi on summer tyres either. Probably wouldn't even on winter tyres - you can't stop the other car crashing into you.

^^^^^This. I'm down in the south and I've never bought into 4WD better in winter and you can be faster in the wet thing. I used to have a TTS, Quattro, well Quattro lite really... It was ok, but it wasn't anymore secure than hot hatches I'd had back in the day. I didn't like the feeling of drive moving around under me... Most unnatural. I could feel no more for it than it being a tool to get me from here to there. It was fast and effective but could I really say I was having fun? No.
A test drive of the MK3 TTS showed it, purely in numbers terms, to be a faster car... loads of grip but just as detached as the car I had. Sure it has a much better interior and tech but it's no substitute for fun and involvement. I saw no reason to wait for the RS.
The TTS got replaced. I've had my 981 Cayman S for 7 months. The TTS is likely the faster car but the Cayman is just a much more involving car. Driving in the rain I don't feel I suddenly need 4WD, the back isn't stepping out unprovoked and I'm not falling off the road at the slighter hint of a corner.
Y'know what... I think I'm going to be ok with this old fashioned RWD set up!

Yes the TT RS in coupe for is the better car if you need rear seats bigger boot, more with the rear seats down... no argument if that's what you need and you're clinging on to the idea of a sporty car as your main car. IMO as a pure sports car, it's the Cayman. 2 seats, engine in the middle, RWD, 2 boots and handling in another league. If being the fastest, being able to blow most things into the weeds is your thing then, if so inclined, the RS is going to be your weapon of choice. I can't say anything about the Jaaaag as I've not driven one. No I haven't driven the new RS either, who has? but I've had 3 TT's and driven the previous RS so I fairly much know what the MK3 is going to be about and how it would sit with me.

[Wayne58]

Smokey32 said:

I wonder how many people who will be buying the 3 cars in question are going to rag them round in the winter? Really who takes a 2 seat sports car out in bad weather? These kinda comments are moronic.

90% of the time there a second car. And even if there not, how many people with 4wd go out for a b road blast in the snow and rain and fog? bks.

Just for the record, quite alot I imagine use their cars in winter, maybe not for a "B" road blast, but simply to get to work and back etc. I have a 2 seater sports car, and its my daily driver, come wind/rain/snow etc. Personally, I think these 3 are all overpriced, but I don't think they are high end enough to be only garage queens, they will get used. On this basis, I still would not buy one of these 3, but some folk would favour the RS for its 4WD.

[Wayne58]

Ho Lee Kau said:

second hand - yes, you can find lots of bargains for 60k. TTRS is brand new with all kind of electronics toys, if you like that in your 2.5L-5pot-sound-amazing 400hp Haldex car then there is no substitute.

Obviously 2nd hand yes, but does not detract from the fact 68k for a TTRS is just ridiculous, and Porsche are not too far behind with their obscene options prices. Personally at over 60k, would be a slightly used something for me, and certainly not a TT or 4 pot boxster with a roof !!

[jamieduff1981]

Ho Lee Kau said:

nickfrog said:

Ho Lee Kau said:

Besides, your C63AMG is flawed as well, it does not have AWD and with the power it sends to back wheels it is not all-weather-all-season vehicle.

Makes no sense - 4wd on summers certainly is NOT all-weather. C63 on winters is a great winter car.

Maybe where you're at. I want to see you going up alpine road in the winter in that C63AMG. I've seen a few crashed and stranded. In my book - not all-weather all-purpose car = flawed. Plus that ipad in the cockpit... I've sat in 450 with roof hatch, lowered the seat fully, and still had almost no space above and in front of the head (I do tend to lift back of the seat quite vertically because I like that driving position).

Unlike you who has seen a few cars stranded, I've actually driven similar cars in similar conditions.

Getting stranded is embarrassing. Crashing is a serious problem and embarrassing.

Between you and me, I've never come close to crashing a stationary car. On the couple of occasions I've got one of my rear wheel drive cars stuck on snow or ice, it's been a hassle but I've never actually crashed one doing that. What tends to get my bum puckering is wondering whether the fking thing is going to stop at an oncoming T junction at the bottom of a slope, or hoping I'm crawling along slow enough to negotiate a corner. The only time I've skidded across a junction on snow and had cause to reprimand myself was in an AWD car on summer tyres.

Anyone who thinks AWD = all weather car is the sort of plum who needs to learn everything the hard way.

Any car that crashes on the move on snow will have that crash because of lack of grip, not lack of traction. Idiots in Audi Quattros are attracted to them in the first place due to lack of understanding of what keeps cars on the road. The only difference between people in AWD cars on summer tyres and people in 2WD cars on summer tyres is that the AWD knobs can get up hills in order to crash on the way back down.

Nobody crashes in winter from wishing they could put more power down. They crash because they can't stop or steer. AWD helps you gain kinetic energy you can't get rid of. Winter tyres give you control.

A C63 AMG on winter tyres is far more all-weather capable than an Audi Quattro on summer tyres.

Edited by jamieduff1981 on Friday 25th November 11:56

[HighwayStar]

Wayne58 said:

Ho Lee Kau said:

second hand - yes, you can find lots of bargains for 60k. TTRS is brand new with all kind of electronics toys, if you like that in your 2.5L-5pot-sound-amazing 400hp Haldex car then there is no substitute.

Obviously 2nd hand yes, but does not detract from the fact 68k for a TTRS is just ridiculous, and Porsche are not too far behind with their obscene options prices. Personally at over 60k, would be a slightly used something for me, and certainly not a TT or 4 pot boxster with a roof !!

Personally, I wouldn't give a toss about 'all kinds of electronic' toys. At the other end of the scale a bare bones Lotus wouldn't be for me but, wonderful though the TT's tech and interior is, it didn't sway me over the car I have.
Someone mention that sitting a little but high is ok. Obviously some won't car but I always wished among other things, that the seat in MK2 TTS could've have been set lower. I never felt like I was sitting 'in' the car. The seating position in the Cayman is just perfect, sitting properly low in the car.