RE: RS about face: PH Blog

[Iceicebaby1980]

Focus rs or a second hand mint evo Ones the real deal

[lee_erm]

The Mitsubishi Evo, I can't think of a car that will require more maintenance and mollycoddling with the exception of a bi-turbo rs6. I wouldn't like to stick my two kids in an Evo and set off anywhere either.

[Chuck328]

lee_erm said:

The Mitsubishi Evo, I can't think of a car that will require more maintenance and mollycoddling with the exception of a bi-turbo rs6. I wouldn't like to stick my two kids in an Evo and set off anywhere either.

Not owned many Evo's then have you...

Utter ste you talk.

[Ahbefive]

Took my RS out yesterday. It really does have a party trick that other hot hatches just dont have.

Traction control still on, normal drive mode still on, round a roundabout at a modest pace, a little boot off the roundabout and power oversteer pretty much by accident. Absolutely great fun. What other awd cars or hot hatches do that?

Edited by Ahbefive on Sunday 27th November 07:23

[lord trumpton]

Chuck328 said:

lee_erm said:

The Mitsubishi Evo, I can't think of a car that will require more maintenance and mollycoddling with the exception of a bi-turbo rs6. I wouldn't like to stick my two kids in an Evo and set off anywhere either.

Not owned many Evo's then have you...

Utter ste you talk.

Oh come on...The Mitsubishi is a real wallet hoover in every respect. I owned an Evo 9 FQ340 with 5k miles on it. Aside from the fuel (I knew this) it required servicing every 5k miles and every consumable was expensive.

Although they are reliable; their maintenance requirements are epic by any standard.

Great fun though

[mrnoisy78]

RamboLambo said:

Yeah drove one and agree it does drive well but its so plain looking even in nitrous blue it was hard to distinguish it from a base model and no sports car should be 5 door let alone a RS.

Ford was appealing to a broader market hoping to sell a shed load which I'm sure they will do but for that reason it will never be a classic. Just far too many of them around.
A quick glance in the classifieds will show you how many are for sale already.

Mk II has a cult following the Mk III won't its a mum and dads car for 2.2 kids in the back

Why shouldn't people with kids have a car they can still use and enjoy?
It's one of the reasons I bought mine as it was more practical and rewarding to drive than my old M3, and yeah I prefer the looks of the mk2 but not the interior or the FWD on it. The comments about the car constantly going FWD above sound like a fault to me mine doesn't exhibit those symptoms.

[lord trumpton]

RamboLambo said:

As great a car as it maybe its still not a hardcore RS car like the mark II.
The bland looks, 5 doors and 4 WD system make it more mainstream and broader appealing but not one for the enthusiasts.

Once the hype and newness has dissipated a good Mk II will be worth more

I seem to remember the Mk2 was criticised for not being AWD - people moaning about Ford going for a cheaper trick suspension rather than Volvos' AWD train.

I think the main issue with the Mk3 is more to do with it looking a bit tame really.

[Vroom101]

Easy to spot the Ford RS fans on this thread! No different from a Porsche or Lotus thread though....

Overhaul said:

I love fast Fords, always have done and always will.
However I'll just leave this here.........

https://youtu.be/p8DKosz9zi4

Jeez, does that guy like the sound of his own voice or what?! I was interested to hear what he had to say, but couldn't stomach more than four minutes. Was there a point or conclusion to what he had to say? To be fair on the RS, I think morons will drive like morons no matter what modes the car has.

Ahbefive said:

Traction control still on, mormal drive mode still on, round a roundabout at a modest pace, a little boot off the roundabout and power oversteer pretty much by accident.

By accident? To be honest, that doesn't sound like a good thing. I think I'd want a car that was predictable in its behaviour.

I'm sure the Mk3 is a fine car, but it seems to me that even Ford themselves aren't really sure what the 'RS' badge means. Just look at what it's been stuck on in the past. Is is a rally inspired car for the road, a mega hatch packed with tech, a touring car inspired car for the road, or just the top tier of a model range?

[Ahbefive]

Vroom101 said:

By accident? To be honest, that doesn't sound like a good thing. I think I'd want a car that was predictable in its behaviour.

I'm sure the Mk3 is a fine car, but it seems to me that even Ford themselves aren't really sure what the 'RS' badge means. Just look at what it's been stuck on in the past. Is is a rally inspired car for the road, a mega hatch packed with tech, a touring car inspired car for the road, or just the top tier of a model range?

I said sort of by accident as I gave it a bit more than normal to see where it moves. Very predictable once you know the car a bit. Try it, great fun.


Your last paragraph....all of the above, it really does a bit of everything.

[nickfrog]

Ahbefive said:

What other awd cars or hot hatches do that ?

A M135i / M140i has been able to do that (if that's your thing) for a number of years for £25k new despite better equipment.
Better balance and less weight too. And even comes in 3-dr.
And can take a few more laps without cooking its brakes and chewing its fronts, unlike the Focus.

[Ahbefive]

nickfrog said:

Ahbefive said:

What other awd cars or hot hatches do that ?

A M135i / M140i has been able to do that (if that's your thing) for a number of years for £25k new despite better equipment.
Better balance and less weight too. And even comes in 3-dr.
And can take a few more laps without cooking its brakes and chewing its fronts, unlike the Focus.

You haven't driven the Focus have you. It's brembo brakes are much better than the ones in a m135i and the handling is much better too. Balance? Thats goes in the focuses favour.

Try driving one before coming up with backwards thoughts. We know you don't like it as it pisses on the megane but you really should at least drive one before spouting rubbish.

I do have a couple of criticisms of the RS though. The soundsystem is absolutely crap, the paint chips very easily (although this seems to be an issue on any modern car) and the sidebolsters on the upgraded seats make getting in and out quite a pain.

Edited by Ahbefive on Sunday 27th November 16:45

[nickfrog]

Ahbefive said:

nickfrog said:

Ahbefive said:

What other awd cars or hot hatches do that ?

A M135i / M140i has been able to do that (if that's your thing) for a number of years for £25k new despite better equipment.
Better balance and less weight too. And even comes in 3-dr.
And can take a few more laps without cooking its brakes and chewing its fronts, unlike the Focus.

You haven't driven the Focus have you. It's brembo brakes are much better than the ones in a m135i and the handling is much better too. Balance? Thats goes in the focuses favour.

Try driving one before coming up with backwards thoughts. We know you don't like it as it pisses on the megane but you really should at least drive one before spouting rubbish.

I do have a couple of criticisms of the RS though. The soundsystem is absolutely crap, the paint chips very easily (although this seems to be an issue on any modern car) and the sidebolsters on the upgraded seats make getting in and out quite a pain.

I didn't mean to hurt your feelings - I was just answering your original question as to what other hot hatches could lose rear traction. I think my answer was quite fair.

I have no idea what "pisses on" means in automotive terms, I am quite happy for other cars to be quicker than the Megane. IME, it's mainly about tyres and the guy behind the wheel on track. I find that for road use, licence conservation, line of sight and traffic are the limiting factors.

I can only speak from my own track experience : both at Spa and Bedford, FRS owners cook their brakes pretty quickly (2 hot laps), not surprising given the weight. My stock M135i was much happier and fade free for at least 20 minutes, based on most laps around 3:05 at Spa. The BMW calipers are Brembo too, similar size discs at the front, much larger at the back.

But I still had to upgrade to the Megane because ultimately, even the M135i was too heavy. For my use therefore, the Meg is a far far better car than the Focus, however slow it makes me. It also saves me £14k when spec is equalised, not to mention the saving in consumables!

Handling is also very subjective - the M135i was crying out for 2deg of front camber, which makes it totally neutral in terms of lat grip, where there Focus will understeer. For me, subjectively, a far far better handler than the Ford, even stock. Lower centre of gravity, lower polar moment of inertia, uncorrupted steering, far more predictable at the limit.

I quite liked the Focus when I drove it but not on track, but that's wholly irrelevant as it's not trackable in stock shape anyway. But I am sure it's great for someone as a road car and very easy too in terms of traction management in the wet (the Megane is far trickier, check out Sx videos). I still don't know why the FRS' Recaros are not adjustable in height, it feels very weird to drive so high in the car but I am in motorsport so I guess my expectations are quite high.

Still, if you have a track day lined up, it would be great to compare notes. Silverstone GP on 20 Feb 17 if you fancy it ?

Edited by nickfrog on Sunday 27th November 22:29

[Ahbefive]

I have watched loads of videos on youtube and am yet to hear of anyone cook their brakes, in fact I'vr only heard them exclaim how good they are lap after lap in spain and at the 'ring.

I have only covered 500 miles in mine but only had oversteer, no understeer yet at all. Maybe one of us is driving it wrong.

The BMW is like a boat compared.

[SidewaysSi]

Ahbefive said:

I have watched loads of videos on youtube and am yet to hear of anyone cook their brakes, in fact I'vr only heard them exclaim how good they are lap after lap in spain and at the 'ring.

I have only covered 500 miles in mine but only had oversteer, no understeer yet at all. Maybe one of us is driving it wrong.

The BMW is like a boat compared.

You are convincing no one. As for the BMW, if you look at my garage, you will see I have a few cars which make the Focus look as sharp as a 1988 240.

I don't like the Focus and for me it is not as driver focused as I want. Fine for you if you think it is great and find its driver qualities satisfactory for what you look for.

[RacerMike]

I went to Silverstone in it yesterday and was genuinely pretty impressed. Tyres and brakes lasted well and mechanically it was solid. No diff overheats, no engine de-rates.

Got a decent lap in (although got slightly held up by a Ferrari in the Club chicane) and it's up on The Tube if anyone's interested. For reference it pretty much matches the Hondas 'official lap record' time:

Fast Lap with data

Comparison with Matt Neal in the Type R

[jonm01]

Interesting that you say the Track mode makes the dampers too stiff, even for a track like Silverstone. I really think the Track mode is a waste of time on the FRS.

[Loyly]

SidewaysSi said:

You are convincing no one. As for the BMW, if you look at my garage, you will see I have a few cars which make the Focus look as sharp as a 1988 240.

You're not wrong! Canny garage you have there.

[RacerMike]

jonm01 said:

Interesting that you say the Track mode makes the dampers too stiff, even for a track like Silverstone. I really think the Track mode is a waste of time on the FRS.

Silverstone is actually pretty bumpy, but yes, in terms of outright lap time, I don't think the track damper setting actually helps. It does make the car more playful and direct though, and realistically, how many people are going to go for an outright time and how many people just want to enjoy the car?

[Ahbefive]

SidewaysSi said:

You are convincing no one. As for the BMW, if you look at my garage, you will see I have a few cars which make the Focus look as sharp as a 1988 240.

I don't like the Focus and for me it is not as driver focused as I want. Fine for you if you think it is great and find its driver qualities satisfactory for what you look for.

I don't need to convince anyone, the proof is there online for all to see. The brakes are good for plenty of laps without cooking. Just search for Focus RS on track, lots of videos on there.

Personally I find its driver qualities far more than satisfactory, its great fun and can power oversteer where my impreza is more inclined to lift off oversteer.

The focussed cars you have might be great if all you do is drive on track but I bought my RS primarily as a fun road car and for that it is excellent. Are you trying to compare it to a Caterham or Elise? It's a 5door hatchback with as much power as your Porsche, not a stripped out, low slung race car.

Edited by Ahbefive on Monday 28th November 12:13

[SuperchargedVR6]

JMF894 said:

Overhaul said:

I love fast Fords, always have done and always will.
However I'll just leave this here.........

https://youtu.be/p8DKosz9zi4

Double

To be fair, certain cars will always attract certain buyers. The Golf Rs in my area tend to be driven by road captains up people's chuffs and doing 60 in a 30 etc, and RSs appear to attract a minority of folk who think they can drift, because Ford say it can. If you're going to be filmed drifting, at least get some practice in off camera first