Best smoker barges 1-5 large [vol11]
Discussion
Admit it Derin you just want to buy another car 
How about a nice condition E39 M5 or E46 M3? Or have these already sailed?
Coming back to barges, I do wonder whether any true barge will go up significantly in value. Perhaps an early W126, or E32? I doubt you could make money on them given maintenance, but perhaps you would not lose much. But then look at BMW e23s - they were so low for so long close to none exist any more!
EDIT: look at the comedy pricing on this E32... http://www2.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
How about a nice condition E39 M5 or E46 M3? Or have these already sailed?
Coming back to barges, I do wonder whether any true barge will go up significantly in value. Perhaps an early W126, or E32? I doubt you could make money on them given maintenance, but perhaps you would not lose much. But then look at BMW e23s - they were so low for so long close to none exist any more!
EDIT: look at the comedy pricing on this E32... http://www2.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Edited by 0a on Sunday 19th February 15:16
0a said:
Admit it Derin you just want to buy another car
How about a nice condition E39 M5 or E46 M3? Or have these already sailed?
Coming back to barges, I do wonder whether any true barge will go up significantly in value. Perhaps an early W126, or E32? I doubt you could make money on them given maintenance, but perhaps you would not lose much. But then look at BMW e23s - they were so low for so long close to none exist any more!
EDIT: look at the comedy pricing on this E32... http://www2.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
That's what we've been saying! E39 M5s (with decent mileage) for sale don't seem to exist (unless you want to buy one off Hexagon) and despite fairly thorough searching on the E46 M3 front "ditto"...unless you want a Cabriolet, an SMG car or you want to buy it off Nick Johnson. And none of those appeal to me! How about a nice condition E39 M5 or E46 M3? Or have these already sailed?
Coming back to barges, I do wonder whether any true barge will go up significantly in value. Perhaps an early W126, or E32? I doubt you could make money on them given maintenance, but perhaps you would not lose much. But then look at BMW e23s - they were so low for so long close to none exist any more!
EDIT: look at the comedy pricing on this E32... http://www2.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201...
Edited by 0a on Sunday 19th February 15:16
That E32 is a genuine typo (surely)...with 245K on the clock that must be £700 with a little room for haggling.
Speaking from the BMW Barge perspective and particularly pertaining to the 7-Series and in answer to your question, the answer is: "No, I don't think you can ever make much money on a 7-Series". Unless it's a really special niche car like an Alpina, then generally history shows us there has never been a significant enough interest, following or cult-like status attached to the 7-Series cars in any guise to make them go up significantly in value before they all fall off the cliff and get scrapped.
It's actually always been the other way around with BMWs. It's the little ones that in time become the more valuable ones. Think: 2002/3-Series first, followed by 5-Series then E9/6-Series...never followed to any real extent by E3/7-Series. Waiting or hoping that a 7-Series is going to be valuable is a waste of time.
I could have nearly bought another car today but I think my wife is probably secretly pleased that the bloke hasn't phoned me back!
944s have had a silly year, valuation-wise. I doubled my insurance valuation to £20K last Easter and will need to get itrevalued again this year: frankly if I wanted to replace my car from a dealer now I'd need to be looking at cars advertised at between £25K and £30K. I was shocked the other day to see haw many examples of the S2 are on at just under £20K.
The R129 is still cheap, but rising.
The 1996-2006 XK is a car I like very much and would not at all mind having, but they are known to rust enthusiastically and if you want a non-rusting car which will live out in the rain, that's not one I would feel safe in recommending.
Something else that's definitely bottomed out but not yet become silly money is the Alfa 916 GTV and Spider, from 1993-2004. They need a lot of suspension love and in V6 form need brakes and a limited slip diff, also they don't fit a lot of people, but they are interesting, distinctive and (perhaps surprisingly) relatively rust-free.
The R129 is still cheap, but rising.
The 1996-2006 XK is a car I like very much and would not at all mind having, but they are known to rust enthusiastically and if you want a non-rusting car which will live out in the rain, that's not one I would feel safe in recommending.
Something else that's definitely bottomed out but not yet become silly money is the Alfa 916 GTV and Spider, from 1993-2004. They need a lot of suspension love and in V6 form need brakes and a limited slip diff, also they don't fit a lot of people, but they are interesting, distinctive and (perhaps surprisingly) relatively rust-free.
Edited by Lowtimer on Sunday 19th February 16:07
derin100 said:
Ok, shelving 'classic cars' as an investment to stop money depreciating in a bank and accepting that Premium Bonds aren't the most imaginative alternative to come up with what other alternatives are there for me to put the money into in the medium term (say, 5-ish years)?
Not exactly the question you've posed, but this thread offers views on a similar 'predicament':http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
The question of future values is an interesting one. It seems to me that it takes a long time for saloons to become significantly valuable, and then only once the unloved examples have all died, but those that are desirable have to have low mileage. For those of us that buy old cars to drive rather than watch make money, that offers a problem. I suspect many here drive old cars because they want to, and if appreciation can offset the costs of repair and maintenance and appalling fuel economy then so much the better, but that isn't why we buy them.
If I was any good at identifying the 'next big thing' I wouldn't be working in the public sector, but I can see Jaguar XK8s proving to be a canny buy, and I'd absolutely agree with the MB 129 SL already mentioned.
I think the nostalgia and investment market is rather more likely to follow the niche model than the mainstream, so 4 door cars and large saloons of the type that we see lots of in this thread, are likely to be 1-5 fodder for a long time before they elevate to the Lovely Cars 5-10 thread.
If I was any good at identifying the 'next big thing' I wouldn't be working in the public sector, but I can see Jaguar XK8s proving to be a canny buy, and I'd absolutely agree with the MB 129 SL already mentioned.
I think the nostalgia and investment market is rather more likely to follow the niche model than the mainstream, so 4 door cars and large saloons of the type that we see lots of in this thread, are likely to be 1-5 fodder for a long time before they elevate to the Lovely Cars 5-10 thread.
CharlesdeGaulle said:
derin100 said:
Ok, shelving 'classic cars' as an investment to stop money depreciating in a bank and accepting that Premium Bonds aren't the most imaginative alternative to come up with what other alternatives are there for me to put the money into in the medium term (say, 5-ish years)?
Not exactly the question you've posed, but this thread offers views on a similar 'predicament':http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
CharlesdeGaulle said:
The question of future values is an interesting one. It seems to me that it takes a long time for saloons to become significantly valuable, and then only once the unloved examples have all died, but those that are desirable have to have low mileage. For those of us that buy old cars to drive rather than watch make money, that offers a problem. I suspect many here drive old cars because they want to, and if appreciation can offset the costs of repair and maintenance and appalling fuel economy then so much the better, but that isn't why we buy them.
If I was any good at identifying the 'next big thing' I wouldn't be working in the public sector, but I can see Jaguar XK8s proving to be a canny buy, and I'd absolutely agree with the MB 129 SL already mentioned.
I think the nostalgia and investment market is rather more likely to follow the niche model than the mainstream, so 4 door cars and large saloons of the type that we see lots of in this thread, are likely to be 1-5 fodder for a long time before they elevate to the Lovely Cars 5-10 thread.
^^^ Exactly.If I was any good at identifying the 'next big thing' I wouldn't be working in the public sector, but I can see Jaguar XK8s proving to be a canny buy, and I'd absolutely agree with the MB 129 SL already mentioned.
I think the nostalgia and investment market is rather more likely to follow the niche model than the mainstream, so 4 door cars and large saloons of the type that we see lots of in this thread, are likely to be 1-5 fodder for a long time before they elevate to the Lovely Cars 5-10 thread.
My wife and I have always driven the big Barge-type vehicles for the above reasons. Over long periods of time this has undoubtedly made sense. Yes, there are running costs in terms of repairs and fuel economy but when I see and try to calculate what some of our contemporaries around us must have lost in depreciation on their new cars over the last 14 years it must be frightening.
Cars for the 'investment market', for want of a better term, rarely (if ever?) seem to be big Barges. They always seem to be the smaller/sports car type of thing.
derin100 said:
^^^ Exactly.
My wife and I have always driven the big Barge-type vehicles for the above reasons. Over long periods of time this has undoubtedly made sense. Yes, there are running costs in terms of repairs and fuel economy but when I see and try to calculate what some of our contemporaries around us must have lost in depreciation on their new cars over the last 14 years it must be frightening.
Cars for the 'investment market', for want of a better term, rarely (if ever?) seem to be big Barges. They always seem to be the smaller/sports car type of thing.
I guess turn it around then - what barge will lose you the least in depreciation (net of repairs!)? A nice E32 750 or W140 600 SEL perhaps - but then these are rarely in this thread now!My wife and I have always driven the big Barge-type vehicles for the above reasons. Over long periods of time this has undoubtedly made sense. Yes, there are running costs in terms of repairs and fuel economy but when I see and try to calculate what some of our contemporaries around us must have lost in depreciation on their new cars over the last 14 years it must be frightening.
Cars for the 'investment market', for want of a better term, rarely (if ever?) seem to be big Barges. They always seem to be the smaller/sports car type of thing.
If most people viewed depreciation (or even leasing charges) as the counter of appreciation - which of course they don't (by and large) - then we old shed-ists would be lauded as the motoring Warren Buffets of our age. Instead, we're Losers (and proud).
Going back to which cars to buy, I suspect that big, esp 12 cyl, petrol-engined coupes and cabrios will always be a reasonable bet for future riches. Just depends how long you can wait!
Going back to which cars to buy, I suspect that big, esp 12 cyl, petrol-engined coupes and cabrios will always be a reasonable bet for future riches. Just depends how long you can wait!
Lowtimer said:
Something else that's definitely bottomed out but not yet become silly money is the Alfa 916 GTV and Spider, from 1993-2004. They need a lot of suspension love and in V6 form need brakes and a limited slip diff, also they don't fit a lot of people, but they are interesting, distinctive and (perhaps surprisingly) relatively rust-free.
I was going to add one of these, they're really starting to firm up now. A couple of years ago you could pick up a decent V6 (although not low miles) for sub-2k, now they're >4 for anything short of a shed.Another one would be a 147 GTA, that's gone up a fair bit in the last couple of years too.
josh00mac said:
Looks clean inside... dodgy bumpers? Look badly sprayed to me.
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C839169
What's going on with the MOT history?http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C839169
buccal said:
josh00mac said:
Looks clean inside... dodgy bumpers? Look badly sprayed to me.
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C839169
What's going on with the MOT history?http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C839169
Pothole said:
buccal said:
josh00mac said:
Looks clean inside... dodgy bumpers? Look badly sprayed to me.
http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C839169
What's going on with the MOT history?http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C839169
I agree with the comment on the c140. I wouldn't mind a 600SEL like the one Clarkson tested back in the day though: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuEmA-Hdur0&ap...
derin100 said:
I think so much of what you say is true. But, old habits are dying hard with me...I shouldn't even be thinking about cars at this juncture. The E34 540i only actually went last Tuesday but habitually I log on to all the usual sites and see what's about etc. It truly is a disease!
Yes, I've noted that people are catching on with R129s but I don't think the boat has sailed on them yet. But the Pagoda to R107 to R129 domino effect seems inevitable.
You'd be surprised... the E36 M3 'thang' is happening as we speak. I noted it whilst scouring the 'net yesterday. People are trying to ask big money for them already. Trouble is, I don't like 'em! Not that they aren't good-looking cars and not that they aren't fast; it's just that their build quality is so shoddy that having had three E36s I don't think I ever want an E36 again. The interior, compared with an E46, is just horrible IMO.
I don't know about Jags. I like most of them actually but for some reason they always seem to take half a lifetime to start appreciating and be worth anything? I mean look at XJSs. The good ones are only starting to be worth decent money now. It's taken 30-40 years for them to get anywhere. At the age of 54 in 2 weeks time I'm sure I can buy a decent XK8 for not much these days; not sure I've got enough time left to wait for it to become worth anything though?
Boxster seems a decent call...particularly one of those Anniversary ones. But, I was a young man when they first came out and were branded a "Girlie" car (sexism was pretty much an accepted norm still in the 1980's). I still have difficulty feeling completely comfortable with them.
Yep, 996 boat seems to have sailed...having been towed off the quayside by the air-cooled 911 hype even if they're not.
Ok, shelving 'classic cars' as an investment to stop money depreciating in a bank and accepting that Premium Bonds aren't the most imaginative alternative to come up with what other alternatives are there for me to put the money into in the medium term (say, 5-ish years)?
You could do worse than buy an s2000, they're steadily rising in value. Totally agree on the value of the 129, certainly on the rise. Yes, I've noted that people are catching on with R129s but I don't think the boat has sailed on them yet. But the Pagoda to R107 to R129 domino effect seems inevitable.
You'd be surprised... the E36 M3 'thang' is happening as we speak. I noted it whilst scouring the 'net yesterday. People are trying to ask big money for them already. Trouble is, I don't like 'em! Not that they aren't good-looking cars and not that they aren't fast; it's just that their build quality is so shoddy that having had three E36s I don't think I ever want an E36 again. The interior, compared with an E46, is just horrible IMO.
I don't know about Jags. I like most of them actually but for some reason they always seem to take half a lifetime to start appreciating and be worth anything? I mean look at XJSs. The good ones are only starting to be worth decent money now. It's taken 30-40 years for them to get anywhere. At the age of 54 in 2 weeks time I'm sure I can buy a decent XK8 for not much these days; not sure I've got enough time left to wait for it to become worth anything though?
Boxster seems a decent call...particularly one of those Anniversary ones. But, I was a young man when they first came out and were branded a "Girlie" car (sexism was pretty much an accepted norm still in the 1980's). I still have difficulty feeling completely comfortable with them.
Yep, 996 boat seems to have sailed...having been towed off the quayside by the air-cooled 911 hype even if they're not.
Ok, shelving 'classic cars' as an investment to stop money depreciating in a bank and accepting that Premium Bonds aren't the most imaginative alternative to come up with what other alternatives are there for me to put the money into in the medium term (say, 5-ish years)?
cat220 said:
You could do worse than buy an s2000, they're steadily rising in value.
My Dad, about a decade ago, said he'd finally worked out how to find an immaculate, none molested classic car...Buy it new!
So in 2009 he bought one of the last S2000's new and he's covered about 20k miles since. If he's down £500 a year in depriciation I'd be very surprised.
And he's probably got a good 25 years of driving left, and he's convinced they're going to be a proper future classic. So if he's right, he might see a bit of appreciation in that time, too.
Edited by TheLordJohn on Monday 20th February 07:57
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