RE: New Toyota Supra spy shots
Discussion
Conscript said:
tim milne said:
Why's it got such skinny tyres?
The wheels in general don't look 'right' to me, so perhaps these aren't the wheels intended for the final product?From what we can see, I think it looks quite promising, proportionally. Only the front end looks a bit awkward, but of course, it's hard to tell under dazzle paint.
samdale said:
PHMatt said:
Z5M
585bhp V8 twin turbo.
Supra - 1.4 petrol mated to hybrid engine.
Not sure I'm following you...585bhp V8 twin turbo.
Supra - 1.4 petrol mated to hybrid engine.
Are you saying a twin turbo V8 would be a commercial success and therefore likely??
Sadly your suggested supra drive train is more likely for both cars.
In case you haven't noticed, BMW, for decades, have consistently offered models with modest all the way through to mental engines. Whereas, since the death of the 90's Toyota triple of MR2, Celica and Supra, they have offered an utter shower of excriment.
The best they'be come up with in the last 20 years is the 200bhp NA GT86
If BMW make a Z5 they can stick a 450bhp M3 engine in it or, better, a 585bhp M5 engine. Because they actually have them readily available.
Toyota have some lawnmower engines and a couple of hairdryers.
Evolved said:
Naaaaiiillleed it!
I think the wheels are just any old set off the production line. Release car will have bigger brakes and therefor bigger wheels.
PHMatt said:
samdale said:
PHMatt said:
Z5M
585bhp V8 twin turbo.
Supra - 1.4 petrol mated to hybrid engine.
Not sure I'm following you...585bhp V8 twin turbo.
Supra - 1.4 petrol mated to hybrid engine.
Are you saying a twin turbo V8 would be a commercial success and therefore likely??
Sadly your suggested supra drive train is more likely for both cars.
In case you haven't noticed, BMW, for decades, have consistently offered models with modest all the way through to mental engines. Whereas, since the death of the 90's Toyota triple of MR2, Celica and Supra, they have offered an utter shower of excriment.
The best they'be come up with in the last 20 years is the 200bhp NA GT86
If BMW make a Z5 they can stick a 450bhp M3 engine in it or, better, a 585bhp M5 engine. Because they actually have them readily available.
Toyota have some lawnmower engines and a couple of hairdryers.
The most likely outcome is a ~2l Z4 replacement that a lot of people will buy. What I want is for Toyota to build a Supra replacement but I have deemed that highly unlikely.
That's all I said. I left plenty of ??? In the middle as I'm sure the line up will consist of more than this. I merely stated the most and least likely models.
Take a step down off your high pferde and have some schnitzel.
PHMatt said:
Toyota have some lawnmower engines and a couple of hairdryers.
Ha, ha, ha 
I take it you're aware that Toyota recently made one of the best production car engines of all time?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAvXKXn1nSU&t=...
No BMW engine comes close to that.
And they still make a 400+hp NA V8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDnbLSVpOts
PHMatt said:
Toyota have some lawnmower engines and a couple of hairdryers.
That was funny, Toyota alas (LFA aside) hasn't really churned out some enthusiast tailored power plants for a while, LC 500h sounds like a contender but that would nab sales away from the LC which I think is a model up? So I'd be amazed if they used it in the Supra / Z5.The new 440i looks a winner and as they've put it in the 2 series it will no doubt be the Z5 halo unit until the M\\\ unit arrives.
No idea what will end up in the Supra but a 5.0 V8 isn't on the list.
Well as a Z4 Coupe owner I'm glad it looks a bit like one of those, as I was gutted when I first read that the Z5 will be convertible only! 
So long as they put decent mechanical bits in I may have to prefer a Toyota to a BMW for once!
Anyway doesn't the Lotus Evora use a Toyota V6?
Mind you I'd prefer a straight 6 - Toyota have history with those in the original Supras so I'll cross my fingers!
So long as they put decent mechanical bits in I may have to prefer a Toyota to a BMW for once!
Anyway doesn't the Lotus Evora use a Toyota V6?
Mind you I'd prefer a straight 6 - Toyota have history with those in the original Supras so I'll cross my fingers!
Oh dear. I half expect this to be an eco hybrid sold on the back of a name... Funny how the Supra has become cool - it was so deeply uncool when it was new! A car for old people - torque, heavy, automatic mostly.. One film makes all the difference!
Anyway, zero interest in this. You never know, but Toyota don't have a f
king clue these days.
Anyway, zero interest in this. You never know, but Toyota don't have a f
king clue these days.j_s14a said:
I take it you're aware that Toyota recently made one of the best production car engines of all time?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAvXKXn1nSU&t=...
No BMW engine comes close to that.
In terms of what?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zAvXKXn1nSU&t=...
No BMW engine comes close to that.
It looks pathetic in comparison to its predecessor, but being completely honest, no other manufacturer has so much form in cocking up their previous icons than Toyota:
Celica
250BHP, Turbocharged, 4WD. Various Rallying success through this and previous generations, The top of the range model was a genuine homologation car complete with anti lag and water injection. From the factory.
Became
140/190BHP. FWD only. No rallying or Motorsport heritage of note. The top of the range model got a F&F style 'TRD' bodykit. From the factory.
MR2 - 240BHP, from a characterful, tunable and reliable turbocharged engine. 0-60 in 5.7 at a time when the mid engined V8 Ferrari of the time did 0-60 in 5.3sec.
Became
140BHP, from a dull engine that loves to drink oil and had a habit of ingesting exhaust components, in a car that manages to make a MX5 look both butch and spacious at the same time. 0-60 in 7.7 seconds
.
Supra - 280-326bhp from arguably THE most tuning friendly production engine every created. A bonafide legend on the track, on the street, on the drag strip and on the dyno in its old age. In its day it was a credible GT car that could hold its' head up high against Porsche and company in every category.
Becomes
?
I'll hesitate to slag it off too much at this point without more information, but who's sitting here with an ounce of appreciation for Supras and thinking this looks or sounds promising? Dainty proportions that look more suitable for a Celica than a Supra, bicycle size width tyres and 2ltr (or smaller!?) 4 Pot + Hybrid?. 'New Supra'?.
Can anyone think of any other examples of manufacturers taking such blatant backwards steps in terms of their subsequent models?
I understand that time moves on and Toyota were/are clearing aiming to appeal with different markets in the model changes I've made an example of, but then they usually change the name and distance the product from the model that came previously, but not Toyota. They're happy to slap the same or similar badge on a car and bang on about heritage in order to build up hype - See the marketing connections they built between the GT86 and the AE86 during development, then step back are realize all they really share is a drivetrain layout, 'spiritually' or otherwise
/End 80-90s Toyota fanboy rant.
Celica
250BHP, Turbocharged, 4WD. Various Rallying success through this and previous generations, The top of the range model was a genuine homologation car complete with anti lag and water injection. From the factory.
Became
140/190BHP. FWD only. No rallying or Motorsport heritage of note. The top of the range model got a F&F style 'TRD' bodykit. From the factory.
MR2 - 240BHP, from a characterful, tunable and reliable turbocharged engine. 0-60 in 5.7 at a time when the mid engined V8 Ferrari of the time did 0-60 in 5.3sec.
Became
140BHP, from a dull engine that loves to drink oil and had a habit of ingesting exhaust components, in a car that manages to make a MX5 look both butch and spacious at the same time. 0-60 in 7.7 seconds
. Supra - 280-326bhp from arguably THE most tuning friendly production engine every created. A bonafide legend on the track, on the street, on the drag strip and on the dyno in its old age. In its day it was a credible GT car that could hold its' head up high against Porsche and company in every category.
Becomes
?
I'll hesitate to slag it off too much at this point without more information, but who's sitting here with an ounce of appreciation for Supras and thinking this looks or sounds promising? Dainty proportions that look more suitable for a Celica than a Supra, bicycle size width tyres and 2ltr (or smaller!?) 4 Pot + Hybrid?. 'New Supra'?
.Can anyone think of any other examples of manufacturers taking such blatant backwards steps in terms of their subsequent models?
I understand that time moves on and Toyota were/are clearing aiming to appeal with different markets in the model changes I've made an example of, but then they usually change the name and distance the product from the model that came previously, but not Toyota. They're happy to slap the same or similar badge on a car and bang on about heritage in order to build up hype - See the marketing connections they built between the GT86 and the AE86 during development, then step back are realize all they really share is a drivetrain layout, 'spiritually' or otherwise
/End 80-90s Toyota fanboy rant.
Edited by 279 on Tuesday 29th November 21:55
279 said:
I'll hesitate to slag it off too much at this point without more information, but who's sitting here with an ounce of appreciation for Supras and thinking this looks or sounds promising? Dainty proportions that look more suitable for a Celica than a Supra, bicycle size width tyres and 2ltr (or smaller!?) 4 Pot + Hybrid?. 'New Supra'? .
There's naturally talk about this on the supra forum..From what we can see here I'd like this to be closer to an MX5 competitor. 160-200hp.
Maybe call it an FR2?
GT86 sits in the Celica position...ish
Then the FT1/LC500 needs to be developed into the new Supra.
By 2018 the gt86 will be 6yrs old so think it's likely we can view this a replacement toyota sports car not something to sell alongside it, so may well not be much bigger than a gt86 certainly looks smaller than a mk4 supra. (I think it's better viewed as a mk2 gt86 but toyota choosing to change name as can't really call it a gt87. Certainly a good marketing idea look at all the extra hype it's getting already being called a supra.
samdale said:
279 said:
I'll hesitate to slag it off too much at this point without more information, but who's sitting here with an ounce of appreciation for Supras and thinking this looks or sounds promising? Dainty proportions that look more suitable for a Celica than a Supra, bicycle size width tyres and 2ltr (or smaller!?) 4 Pot + Hybrid?. 'New Supra'? .
There's naturally talk about this on the supra forum..From what we can see here I'd like this to be closer to an MX5 competitor. 160-200hp.
Maybe call it an FR2?
GT86 sits in the Celica position...ish
Then the FT1/LC500 needs to be developed into the new Supra.
Personally I'd suspect this will probably go (slightly) above the GT86 in a 'Celica' role. Whether or not it'll replace the GT86 remains to be seen.
To be honest, I've lost hope of there actually being a proper FT1/Supra for a while now. If they aren't going to bother when they've got the ideal underpinnings to work with in the form of the LC500, have a well received concept for the styling with the FT1 and a partnership with a manufacturer making THE spiritual successor of the JZ Series engine, when are they?
I really liked the proportions of the FT-1, how low the bonnet swoops over the front wheels, how the cabin seems shrink-wrapped, leaving fat rear haunches.
All gone in the production model, looks very boring in overall proportions. Looks fat and heavy, unlike the concept.
No longer interested.
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