Aggression on the Roads...

Aggression on the Roads...

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Discussion

julian64

14,317 posts

253 months

Wednesday 7th December 2016
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sebulban said:
Slow said:
Awesome I have seen them both.

They may as well have special powers eh....
Not sure what you are seeing here. Couldn't see the first one, but the second demonstrates the winner hits hard, with little warning and hits FIRST. No superpowers required apart from the ability to act like a psychopath. We both interpret this differently because of your training and my lack of training.

sebulban

285 posts

118 months

Wednesday 7th December 2016
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hairykrishna said:
To me this post suggests that you feel it is somehow your civic duty to escalate aggressive confrontations.
Well thats not how I meant it.

If I am attacked I will defend myself. The law allows that.

I have known, and can show examples, of where judges in this country have compensated people for performing this civic duty as they see the value in it. A very well known local case of an MMA fighter in Cheltenham (female) being attacked by a man at 2am trying to rape her.... she choked him unconscious off her back and got away. The guy got nicked and given 8 years. She was personally thanked by the judge for doing what others couldn't & citing that this may prevent future crimes.

http://metro.co.uk/2015/05/20/female-kickboxer-cho...

SuperchargedVR6

3,138 posts

219 months

Wednesday 7th December 2016
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hairykrishna said:
sebulban said:
But where did I advocate repeatedly getting involved in violent confrontations?
Note that I also said 'potentially violent'.

sebulban said:
I consider it at times my civic duty to deal with these morons. Im not Batman and I could easily walk away. But I then think what if this was just a nice old man out with his grandkids - any sign of weakness these bullies see it as encouragement and the ante goes up and someone ends up in hospital or dead. It happens everyday. So if by just fronting up (not even doing anything violent) I can prevent this happening once, I am cool with that.
To me this post suggests that you feel it is somehow your civic duty to escalate aggressive confrontations.
And your post suggests that you are a look the other way type. If the man has the ability to diffuse a situation by fending off bullies, then why not?

mp3manager

4,254 posts

195 months

Wednesday 7th December 2016
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sebulban said:
Well thats not how I meant it.

If I am attacked I will defend myself. The law allows that.
The law allows 'reasonable force' and not spouting nonsense like threatening to put people into coma's like you have done.



sebulban

285 posts

118 months

Wednesday 7th December 2016
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julian64 said:
Not sure what you are seeing here. Couldn't see the first one, but the second demonstrates the winner hits hard, with little warning and hits FIRST. No superpowers required apart from the ability to act like a psychopath. We both interpret this differently because of your training and my lack of training.
I hadn't watched the second one. But looks like a guy comes out the door fronting up to him.

Who knows.....

This has all got rather tiresome. I know how I am as a human and what values I hold. Also what training I have.

This thread was about aggression on the road - I didn't start it. I posted about experiences and a warning - a generic one. Its escalated to people just taking potshots at strawmen that have been thrown about.

Cool a fair few on here don't think a trained MMA fighter has a super high probability of bashing untrained people. You also think martial arts aren't that functional on the street. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. But I am entitled to mock you for it being flawed.

sebulban

285 posts

118 months

Wednesday 7th December 2016
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mp3manager said:
The law allows 'reasonable force' and not spouting nonsense like threatening to put people into coma's like you have done.
Where have I threatened to put anyone in a coma?

Correct I understand the term reasonable force.... thank you.

xRIEx

8,180 posts

147 months

Wednesday 7th December 2016
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sebulban said:
If I am attacked I will defend myself. The law allows that.
Self defence is described as using "reasonable force";

sebulban said:
But I have been doing MMA for over a decade and lets be honest some chump with no skills has no right running his mouth at me (or anyone) when if it does go down the violence route he has little to prevent himself being put in a coma.
Putting a "civilian" into a coma would probably not come under the definition of "reasonable".

triathlonstu

270 posts

148 months

Wednesday 7th December 2016
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Rawwr said:
When I was a trainee in the United States Air Force, I befriended my superior officer, Charlie Nash and asked him to teach me in his unique form of fighting, which Charlie agreed to do. I learned the style, but my hot temper caused me to lack proficiency in the moves.

I was sent by the United States Air Force to look for my senior teammate and best friend Charlie, who has gone missing during a secret investigation. My search eventually leads me to the Interpol investigator Chun-Li, who warns me not to follow Charlie due to the danger involved. I demonstrated my fighting ability, and assured Chun-Li that I will not let my friend come to harm. I eventually found him in the Shadaloo base in Thailand and informed Charlie that we do not need to be there any longer, as an aerial bombardment will begin in an hour. Charlie, however, insists that Shadaloo leader M. Bison will escape, and we came to blows. The sinister and powerful M. Bison appeared and attacked the two of us but is no match for our combined prowess. He is forced to retreat, calling a gunship to keep them pinned down and cover his escape.

We gave chase, and follow him into the base, deciding that M. Bison's source of power, the Psycho Drive must be destroyed. Chun-Li then appears and informs us that the bombardment has been called off, surmising that Bison has somehow used his influence. She goes on to tell us that she has set explosives in an attempt to destroy the base, but is unsure if they'll be enough. As she rushes to escape, Charlie and I decide to set explosives around the Psycho Drive to ensure that if nothing else, it at least will be destroyed.

As we set our charges, M. Bison fought with Ryu and his allies in an epic battle. In the end, Ryu defeated him, destroying his body temporarily and forcing M. Bison to regenerate in the Psycho Drive. Bison successfully regenerated his body then Charlie convinces me to escape while he holds Bison off, and I escaped right before the base explodes, with Charlie and Bison presumably caught in the blast. Chun-Li and Ryu eventually find me standing on a mountain, and Chun-Li says that Charlie may perhaps be alive somewhere, just as she believes that her father may be. I agree, and say that I will continue to believe in Charlie.

I then beat up loads of people in various streets all around the world during the mid-nineties to international acclaim.
That's absolutely brilliant haha!

sebulban

285 posts

118 months

Wednesday 7th December 2016
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xRIEx said:
Putting a "civilian" into a coma would probably not come under the definition of "reasonable".
Incorrect. Your comprehension of the law is flawed.

If someone attacks me.... and I hit them once. And they die. I would not even get charged.

Look up Alfie Lewis fits this thread very well. Attacked by 4 guys in the 80's in a road rage incident. A pro fighter. Punched one of the guys. Died. The court found him innocent of his charges, saying that he'd acted in self-defence and had used reasonable force.

If I plan to hurt someone and carry it out.... the book will be thrown at me or anyone. If I hit someone once (or anyone does) and they go down and I proceed to continue hitting them. Again - not reasonable or self defence.

WinstonWolf

72,857 posts

238 months

Wednesday 7th December 2016
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julian64 said:
Europa1 said:
sebulban said:
ANY martial art, even ones I don't think are effective in proper combat, will RUIN some civilian on the street.
Quoted for posterity.
This is going to end up as a legendary thread for all the one liners.
Signing up for sts n' giggles...

mp3manager

4,254 posts

195 months

Wednesday 7th December 2016
quotequote all
sebulban said:
Incorrect. Your comprehension of the law is flawed.

If someone attacks me.... and I hit them once. And they die. I would not even get charged.

Look up Alfie Lewis fits this thread very well. Attacked by 4 guys in the 80's in a road rage incident. A pro fighter. Punched one of the guys. Died. The court found him innocent of his charges, saying that he'd acted in self-defence and had used reasonable force.

If I plan to hurt someone and carry it out.... the book will be thrown at me or anyone. If I hit someone once (or anyone does) and they go down and I proceed to continue hitting them. Again - not reasonable or self defence.
Quoted for posterity.


anonymous-user

53 months

Wednesday 7th December 2016
quotequote all
sebulban said:
Incorrect. Your comprehension of the law is flawed.

If someone attacks me.... and I hit them once. And they die. I would not even get charged.

Look up Alfie Lewis fits this thread very well. Attacked by 4 guys in the 80's in a road rage incident. A pro fighter. Punched one of the guys. Died. The court found him innocent of his charges, saying that he'd acted in self-defence and had used reasonable force.

If I plan to hurt someone and carry it out.... the book will be thrown at me or anyone. If I hit someone once (or anyone does) and they go down and I proceed to continue hitting them. Again - not reasonable or self defence.
Its actually bizzare how much time you seem to spend researching how you could get away with killing, coma'ring and the like. This is not normal reading. You're taking all this far too seriously.


Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 7th December 18:18

scenario8

6,554 posts

178 months

Wednesday 7th December 2016
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Great thread, chaps.

Parts of it reminds me of the many threads in NP&E about guns, the military or home-invasions. I think I'm not really built for being a hard man either physically or mentally. It has its downsides but on the whole I'm happy with sticking inside my car as a second principle and avoiding provoking a violent confrontation as a first principle. No doubt in an alternative universe that approach will already have seen me murdered to death but in this flawed one I'm doing ok. Who knows what mentalist is round the corner though, eh?

FWIW in the half million odd miles I've driven so far - most of which have been in that notoriously polite corner of the World known as South London - the only encounters I can think of that would count as road ragey were both very odd experiences, probably fuelled by underlying mental health issues and resolved by my driving away. It pissed me off to receive a few kicks to my door (I'll not bore you with details other than to say I cannot fathom what provoked the attacker) but those dents reminded me every day how "on the whole" I'm better off paying for a visit to a body shop than I am getting out of my car and risking my kids' futures.

What a pussy, eh?

Is it getting more aggressive out there? Sadly I think it is. Probably too many of us "competing" for road space and a deteriorating culture of good manners. Can't speak for any rise in physically violent encounters as my experiences of these have been so irregular.

sebulban

285 posts

118 months

Wednesday 7th December 2016
quotequote all
yonex said:
Its actually bizzare how much time you seem to spend researching how you could get away with killing, coma'ring and the like. This is not normal reading. You're taking all this far too seriously.


Edited by yonex on Wednesday 7th December 18:18
Its MORE bizarre that you don't understand the concept of logic and evidence.

And the irony of saying Im taking it too seriously.

Europa1

10,923 posts

187 months

Wednesday 7th December 2016
quotequote all
sebulban said:
Europa1 said:
Yep, sums it up. A group of people who are in fact civilians referring to other civilians as civilians, coupled with some jargon like "submission grappling" and equating it to having a special power, is not the way to win people over to your point of view.
I don't need to win you over. You're ignorant.

You pick out random things and put them together and think you have made some poignant comment.

People who have training in any field over anyone "untrained" MAY AS WELL have a super power. It was a throw away comment. Like an untrained person playing someone at snooker who is good..... its how it will feel.

Im done with commenting in here though as no one is adding anything new. I commented on aggression on the road and added in some of my own experiences from a position of being a professional, national level, MMA competitor. Not to lord anything up - I mean if I am discussing a subject and somewhat of an expert came in I would be all up for hearing his opinion and learning rather than mocking him for his language or trying to pick fault. Ive heard the term civilian used plenty in a non-military context - it means non-combatant amongst other things.

Ultimately though I hope no one on here gets involved in any incidents on the road and has a safe Christmas!
From one civilian to another:

I should have been more explicit; and your failure to include the post I was responding to makes you equally as guilty of picking out "random things".

To be clear, I was agreeing with Centurion 007's post in which he was suggesting that regardless of any validity of your point, your delivery is not winning people over. And also that, as he said, I've no doubt you could kick the arse of many people. You have made many posts railing against those that have disagreed with you: Centurion 007 and I suggested why that may be. You have chosen to either misconstrue or ignore that, and unsurprisingly you are still being ribbed.

For a man who was going to make no further posts a page and a half ago, you don't half go on.

ETA: sorry, your use of "poignant" is, to me, as confusing as your use of "civilian" and "non-combatant".


Edited by Europa1 on Wednesday 7th December 23:01

Europa1

10,923 posts

187 months

Wednesday 7th December 2016
quotequote all
sebulban said:
Europa1 said:
Yep, sums it up. A group of people who are in fact civilians referring to other civilians as civilians, coupled with some jargon like "submission grappling" and equating it to having a special power, is not the way to win people over to your point of view.
I don't need to win you over. You're ignorant.

You pick out random things and put them together and think you have made some poignant comment.

People who have training in any field over anyone "untrained" MAY AS WELL have a super power. It was a throw away comment. Like an untrained person playing someone at snooker who is good..... its how it will feel.

Im done with commenting in here though as no one is adding anything new.
Another one for posterity.

Blakewater

4,303 posts

156 months

Wednesday 7th December 2016
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It's amazing how many people who presumably want to present a good company image and make a success of their own businesses behave like aholes in their own liveried vehicles, especially when two minutes on Google will reveal who they are and where they live and work. Today it was a carpenter and joiner. Funnily enough, the other day it was someone running a martial arts club terrified of letting me move over ahead of him at a merge point.

sebulban

285 posts

118 months

Wednesday 7th December 2016
quotequote all
Europa1 said:
Another one for posterity.
Ok well just for a final summary before I leave you to believe whatever it is you believe. And anyone else "ribbing" me.

This was a thread about aggression on the road. I agreed with the OP and commented. I also added that people who have no ability to back things up when it goes violent shouldn't be starting in the first place. Thats it.

During discussion I laid out my credentials to some extent. People, like yourself, have picked on the words used rather than the general gist of what I was saying. And honestly, I couldn't care less. What you hope or believe to be true is irrelevant.

The straw men came out in full effect but I dealt with them. Ultimately agreeing that jiu jitsu wouldn't be option one if a gang of people were attacked said person. And dealing with some fallacies around law, reasonable force & consequences. Providing evidence where necessary. No one else can apart from opinion.

Lets hope nothing bad ever happens to you on the road - if it does picture me giggling and saying Civilians eh!

deevlash2

4 posts

87 months

Thursday 8th December 2016
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Hello, just popping on to say that I know Shane, sort of, via my former hobby of reporting on combat sports for a couple of websites, writing press releases for MMA organisations, interviewing Art Jimmerson, Tom "Kong" Watson, Paul Daley, Rob Sinclair, Bob Sapp, Alex Reid (yep that one), Jack Marshman, Paul "in jail for several years for running a huge drugs ring" Kelly and having done Judo myself for 27 years and represented Scotland briefly in my youth etc etc. (held UFC press credentials)

So anyway, Shanes coming across as a bit OTT here, largely because there seems to be a disconnect for most people between training for say basketball and becoming good at it and fighting and becoming good at it. He's just telling it like it actually is, there's no mythical art to being good at fighting, anyone can learn it, it's not a hard man thing at all, some folk just enjoy it as a hobby, or as a pro like Shane, 4-1 currently I believe, and it DOES translate to the real world should the need arise.

Who was the plonker saying "submission grappling" was "jargon" and that Shane was saying it was akin to a "super power". It's not jargon, google it, just because you're too ignorant to know a sport exists don't let that cloud your judgement and try to come across as clever, you just look silly. Also, it might as well be a super power against an untrained person. Go watch UFC 1, or, do yourselves a favour and pop into an mma gym, or a Judo one, or BJJ, whatever, and ask for a go, it'll be an eye opener.

McDojo Karate places from the 70's teaching useless hokum and pointless dance moves to gullible idiots have a lot to answer for when it comes to peoples perceptions of having a scrap.

ANJ91

162 posts

96 months

Thursday 8th December 2016
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I guess he didn't fancy rolling on the floor doing jujitsu

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWeJu1CvPnI