RE: Subaru BRZ MY17 facelift details

[GravelBen]

Glasgowrob said:

i don't understand why they can't just stick a turbo on it give it 300 horses and watch them sell like hotcakes

It would then need more cooling, bigger brakes, and who knows what other mechanical upgrades to meet manufacturer reliability and durability specifications (very different to aftermarket tuner reliability and durability requirements).

This would make it more expensive. And heavier, which would probably require other parts to be changed as well, making it heavier and more expensive again.

Then there are issue like emissions regs etc...

[JohnoVR6]

British Beef said:

aka_kerrly said:

kambites said:

big_rob_sydney said:

I would really love to see one of these with 350 bhp or so. Imagine the power-to-weight and how much fun it would be compared to other choices.

If you really want one, there are people who will make it for you.

Exactly, if Toyota/Subaru made a 350hp factory version at say a cost of £40k you'd only get a load of people saying it's too expensive for a toyota/subaru and you can buy a Porsche for that.... then most likely not buy either an get a Golf R on lease

The updated version looks good, I have no issue with the original, only that not enough people are buying them and they seem to holding their value:-(

http://www.autoblog.com/2015/02/11/subaru-brz-362hp-24liter-v8-japan-video/

Here is your BRZ, with 360 hp, V8 NA, 11000 rpm red line and manual gearbox!!!!

Although I suspect build cost would be somewhat north of a new 911 GT3 cost.

Engine is north of £33k alone....

http://www.synergypower.co.nz/

[aka_kerrly]

JohnoVR6 said:

Engine is north of £33k alone....

http://www.synergypower.co.nz/

Exactly! It's a beautiful bit of kit but not many will be able to justify spending that on an engine for a £20k car..

A VR6 in a BRZ would work nicely in my opinion!!

[kambites]

I think realistically, turbocharging the existing boxer is the way to go for power. There are people who do bolt-on turbo kits for around £5k which will push power north of 300bhp. There's also supercharger kits available, but they're a bit more expensive for the power they give.

I don't think you're going to fit a VR6 in a GT86 without a lot of work - it's too long and too tall. You'd also be adding about 50kg in front of the front axle which would hardly be ideal for handling. I think a true V6 would be easier to fit in.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 7th December 12:26

[Simon Owen]

V10Ace said:

Maybe for you, but I and many disagree. It's not just because of the 200 bhp (which it doesn't even have) but more to do with the power delivery, nasty sound and slow to rev.

If it had a Honda R V-tech with around 200bhp it would be way more fun.

Basically the heart and soul of this car is dead, just a limp carcass to fling around.

Modified versions.... Now there's a tasty prospect.

Exactly what I thought, we wanted a soft top and hence chose a BBR S200 Mk 4 MX5 (NA 214bhp) and whilst it is not a fair comparison as the Mazda is modified the stock engine in the GT86 felt absolutely shocking in comparison, so much so for me that it would stop me buying one. The interior was also a shock after the Mazda .. however the package, ride, handling, chassis balance, driving position & steering feel were just SUPERB !! BBR transform the ND MX5 without silly power and without ruining the character of the car, and with a package that feels totally OEM & completely useable in the real world on real roads.

I'd love to try a GT86 that has been 'fixed' in a similar way with just that little bit extra added as I'm sure it would be a mega package if you are after a coupe rather than a roadster :-)

Looking at my 'parts bin' from the ND it is frightening what manufacturers have to do/fit to pass emissions regs .... grrrrr !!!

[V10Ace]

Simon Owen said:

V10Ace said:

Maybe for you, but I and many disagree. It's not just because of the 200 bhp (which it doesn't even have) but more to do with the power delivery, nasty sound and slow to rev.

If it had a Honda R V-tech with around 200bhp it would be way more fun.

Basically the heart and soul of this car is dead, just a limp carcass to fling around.

Modified versions.... Now there's a tasty prospect.

Exactly what I thought, we wanted a soft top and hence chose a BBR S200 Mk 4 MX5 (NA 214bhp)

Nice choice, those BBR MX5's must be bags of fun

[Flibble]

kambites said:

I think realistically, turbocharging the existing boxer is the way to go for power. There are people who do bolt-on turbo kits for around £5k which will push power north of 300bhp. There's also supercharger kits available, but they're a bit more expensive for the power they give.

I don't think you're going to fit a VR6 in a GT86 without a lot of work - it's too long and too tall. You'd also be adding about 50kg in front of the front axle which would hardly be ideal for handling. I think a true V6 would be easier to fit in.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 7th December 12:26

There are also cheap V8s (a 1UZ for instance) that will fit into the engine bay if you're after big power.

[kambites]

Flibble said:

There are also cheap V8s (a 1UZ for instance) that will fit into the engine bay if you're after big power.

True but you're still going to have the problem of pushing a fair bit of weight in front of the front axle with an engine two cylinders "longer" than the boxer-4 and no engine swap is going to be a bolt-in conversion so it's going to be considerably more expensive.

[liner33]

Flibble said:

There are also cheap V8s (a 1UZ for instance) that will fit into the engine bay if you're after big power.

Big power as in around 260-290hp ? Seems a lot of work for not much return

[Flibble]

liner33 said:

Big power as in around 260-290hp ? Seems a lot of work for not much return

Bolt on a supercharger and get 400+...

[liner33]

Flibble said:

Bolt on a supercharger and get 400+...

and thats a cheap option ?

[Flibble]

liner33 said:

Flibble said:

Bolt on a supercharger and get 400+...

and thats a cheap option ?

Not really, maybe £15k in total, but relative to a £33k race engine it's pretty cheap.

[GravelBen]

Flibble said:

...relative to a £33k race engine it's pretty cheap.

Valid comment.

[aka_kerrly]

kambites said:

I don't think you're going to fit a VR6 in a GT86 without a lot of work - it's too long and too tall. You'd also be adding about 50kg in front of the front axle which would hardly be ideal for handling. I think a true V6 would be easier to fit in.

It's not something I've given huge amounts of thought to or plan in the near future!

It was more a case of i'd enjoy the sound/power delivery/potential of the vr6 combined with a GT86 chassis. That said If you consider that the vr6 is not excessively long, certainly shorter than a straight 6 and narrower than a V6 thus keeping the weight more central to the chassis and weighs approximately 15kg less than a Toyota 3.0 V6 my silly idea isn't that mad.

[KTF]

kambites said:

I don't think you're going to fit a VR6 in a GT86 without a lot of work - it's too long and too tall.

Why would you want to put a vr6 in a gt86?

[epom]

KTF said:

kambites said:

I don't think you're going to fit a VR6 in a GT86 without a lot of work - it's too long and too tall.

Why would you want to put a vr6 in a gt86?

An engine from an STI might make a little more sense ?
Although having said I'm sure it'd be done by now if possible.

[s m]

aka_kerrly said:

kambites said:

I don't think you're going to fit a VR6 in a GT86 without a lot of work - it's too long and too tall. You'd also be adding about 50kg in front of the front axle which would hardly be ideal for handling. I think a true V6 would be easier to fit in.

It's not something I've given huge amounts of thought to or plan in the near future!

It was more a case of i'd enjoy the sound/power delivery/potential of the vr6 combined with a GT86 chassis. That said If you consider that the vr6 is not excessively long, certainly shorter than a straight 6 and narrower than a V6 thus keeping the weight more central to the chassis and weighs approximately 15kg less than a Toyota 3.0 V6 my silly idea isn't that mad.

Shows how flimsy the old cars were really.

My old XR4i, roughly same dimensions as that BRZ ( a tad narrower, a tad longer ), had a big cast iron 2.8 litreV6 up front, same weight distribution as the BRZ front and rear ( 53/47 f/r ) 205s on 15s, sunroof, same performance to legal speeds - was nearly 50kg lighter. No aircon and SIPS though

The real improvement was fuel economy/emissions over the last 35 years.

Even back then though the performance was never quite enough for Petrolheads .......cue the myriad of aftermarket conversions to bump power up to over 200bhp with superchargers and turbochargers!

[GravelBen]

epom said:

An engine from an STI might make a little more sense ?
Although having said I'm sure it'd be done by now if possible.

There is one being rallied down here with a Subaru H6 transplanted into it. Sounds fantastic.

[ian2144]

RenesisEvo said:

ian2144 said:

The Toyota was also better finished inside.

BRZ and GT86 are built in the same factory. By the same people. Presumably using largely the same bits.

Yes, you are correct, but Toyota use different cloth on their seats, which in my mind is a classier trim than the basic cloth in the BRZ.

[liner33]

Flibble said:

Not really, maybe £15k in total, but relative to a £33k race engine it's pretty cheap.

As said below a Sti engine would be the logical and the cheapest option, but to be honest anyone really wanting 400hp out of one has bought the wrong car