HELP: BMW 330E 200 miles to empty.
Discussion
spmaidment said:
Its in ECO.. with sensible driving... so really it is a heavy 2.0L. Should I get better than 20-25MPG? If so is it worth taking into BMW?
The carport is 25 meters from my outside socket. I do have a 25m lead, but its annoying running the cable out all the time otherwise I would charge it more often!
Sounds about right. 2l petrol is probably working pretty hard accelerating a car that with the battery and electric motor must weigh about 2 tonnes, surely? You'd be getting better economy if you'd just bought a 320i.The carport is 25 meters from my outside socket. I do have a 25m lead, but its annoying running the cable out all the time otherwise I would charge it more often!
spmaidment said:
That's the answer I wanted... cheers guy I may put in a socket!
I think you might be eligible for the OLEV-funded chargepoint? It used to be free but I think there is a £200ish fee now because the grant was cut. There might be limitations on distance but it's up to the electrician to surcharge and some don't bother if the additional cost is minimal.The equipment for a proper chargepoint is far superior (and safer) than a regular outside socket.
gweaver said:
The Beaver King said:
It's only a hybrid if you charge it....
Is that true though?Do these new-fangled German hybrids not have regenerative braking, like the old school Japanese ones?
It's a plug-in hybrid, not a prius.
sorin1987 said:
If the fuel economy is that bad on these hibryd cars why bother? I get better MPG from my 2011 E90 3.0L BMW.
If you do charge the thing up, then you can do something along the lines of 20-25 miles of driving without using any petrol whatosever. That's a commute to quite a few people.With a proper charging post it'll be ready to do the same after 2 hours, and the electricity isn't very expensive.
It doesn't have range versus charging time problems like pure electric cars can, because it's got a petrol motor.
The real reason they make any sense in the UK is that the taxation is based on running the NEDC tests, starting with a full battery - so this car does 149mpg and 44g/km CO2 on that measure, and consequently gets taxed very cheaply.
The NEDC test doesn't cope with this sort of thing (it doesn't produce sensible results).
CraigyMc said:
gweaver said:
The Beaver King said:
It's only a hybrid if you charge it....
Is that true though?Do these new-fangled German hybrids not have regenerative braking, like the old school Japanese ones?
It's a plug-in hybrid, not a prius.
If the battery is flat, there's no real regen, and it weighs 1735kg (according to Autocar), it's hardly surprising that the fuel consumption is terrible around town.
Being cynical, it would seem that this car was developed purely to game the NEDC tests. The two environmental benefits are that:
a) some of the pollution will be moved from city centres to power stations
b) more of these means less diesels (less pollution again)
CraigyMc said:
spmaidment said:
Any help/guidance anyone can give will be helpful!
If you were doing less than about 20 miles a day round town, it'd get infinite mpg as it'd not use petrol... but only if you charge it up.Suits me fine, and the low BIK for a large practical car is a big draw.
CraigyMc said:
sorin1987 said:
If the fuel economy is that bad on these hibryd cars why bother? I get better MPG from my 2011 E90 3.0L BMW.
If you do charge the thing up, then you can do something along the lines of 20-25 miles of driving without using any petrol whatosever. That's a commute to quite a few people.With a proper charging post it'll be ready to do the same after 2 hours, and the electricity isn't very expensive.
It doesn't have range versus charging time problems like pure electric cars can, because it's got a petrol motor.
The real reason they make any sense in the UK is that the taxation is based on running the NEDC tests, starting with a full battery - so this car does 149mpg and 44g/km CO2 on that measure, and consequently gets taxed very cheaply.
The NEDC test doesn't cope with this sort of thing (it doesn't produce sensible results).
My wife's now thinking a plug in hybrid (Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV actually) would be a good choice for her car which is mainly used for taking our girls to school, dancing classes, taking webstore orders to the post office etc but occasionally (but regularly enough for it to be a real need) going further afield. It makes a lot more sense for some than a pure electric vehicle, and unlike a pure petrol, the user does get some degree of choice about how to propel it on short journeys.
I find it very weird that it doesn't charge the battery at all, really what is the point of that apart from gaming the NEDC test as someone mentioned above? Surely the Prius method is a much better hybrid solution? Is this the same for most of the new German plug-in hybrids?
Also will the new emissions tests that are now being proposed basically make cars like this obsolete? I can't see these type of cars fairing too well if the tests actually manage to measure real world conditions in some way.
Also will the new emissions tests that are now being proposed basically make cars like this obsolete? I can't see these type of cars fairing too well if the tests actually manage to measure real world conditions in some way.
gweaver said:
So it would appear that it has an alternator-generator, electric motor and a small battery, but no regenerative braking?
If the battery is flat, there's no real regen, and it weighs 1735kg (according to Autocar), it's hardly surprising that the fuel consumption is terrible around town.
Being cynical, it would seem that this car was developed purely to game the NEDC tests. The two environmental benefits are that:
a) some of the pollution will be moved from city centres to power stations
b) more of these means less diesels (less pollution again)
No; Merc and BMW both come with regenerative braking, but the amount of energy reclaimed from braking probably gives back maybe 10% of the max range. I get approximately 16 miles out of the C350 after a full charge, plus another mile or so from braking.If the battery is flat, there's no real regen, and it weighs 1735kg (according to Autocar), it's hardly surprising that the fuel consumption is terrible around town.
Being cynical, it would seem that this car was developed purely to game the NEDC tests. The two environmental benefits are that:
a) some of the pollution will be moved from city centres to power stations
b) more of these means less diesels (less pollution again)
I also save fuel when on the motorway as the car shuts the engine down when slowing down and uses a small amount of battery when cruising to maintain speed.
sorin1987 said:
If the fuel economy is that bad on these hibryd cars why bother? I get better MPG from my 2011 E90 3.0L BMW.
The fuel economy is crap when doing journeys of 60-70 miles or more; but even then I'm averaging 40mpg over 100-150 miles.The big difference is my commute; I drive 20 miles into work every day and the same back. 75-80% of that trip is done on battery, with the remainder being a few miles on the motorway.
My average mpg on a Monday to Friday is 99+ mpg.
Guvernator said:
I find it very weird that it doesn't charge the battery at all, really what is the point of that apart from gaming the NEDC test as someone mentioned above? Surely the Prius method is a much better hybrid solution? Is this the same for most of the new German plug-in hybrids?
Also will the new emissions tests that are now being proposed basically make cars like this obsolete? I can't see these type of cars fairing too well if the tests actually manage to measure real world conditions in some way.
I've mentioned it in my comment above, but the German PHEV all have regenerative braking. That said, you'll only recover maybe 10% of the battery capacity on a journey; it just isn't a huge amount of energy.Also will the new emissions tests that are now being proposed basically make cars like this obsolete? I can't see these type of cars fairing too well if the tests actually manage to measure real world conditions in some way.
You also need to bear in mind that the Prius etc only use battery up to 20-30 mph; the PHEVs will run solely on battery upto 80 mph for 15-20 miles. Absolutely brilliant for me as I can 75% of my commute on battery and the remainder is done at 70 mph on the motorway.
I'm easily getting over 99 mpg each morning. The downside is long distance; anything over 50 miles sees my mpg drop to circa 40 mpg. I've driven from Birmingham to Newcastle and back again and my mpg over the whole trip was 37 mpg. No brilliant, but hardly horrific. Journeys like that for me are a once every few month occurance.
TLDR; great for short commutes, not great for long distance. Dirty cheap BiK.
Eutopia is company car with inclusive fuel car. The tax is disgustingly low for a 280 bhp Mercedes....
The Beaver King said:
Guvernator said:
I find it very weird that it doesn't charge the battery at all, really what is the point of that apart from gaming the NEDC test as someone mentioned above? Surely the Prius method is a much better hybrid solution? Is this the same for most of the new German plug-in hybrids?
Also will the new emissions tests that are now being proposed basically make cars like this obsolete? I can't see these type of cars fairing too well if the tests actually manage to measure real world conditions in some way.
I've mentioned it in my comment above, but the German PHEV all have regenerative braking. That said, you'll only recover maybe 10% of the battery capacity on a journey; it just isn't a huge amount of energy.Also will the new emissions tests that are now being proposed basically make cars like this obsolete? I can't see these type of cars fairing too well if the tests actually manage to measure real world conditions in some way.
You also need to bear in mind that the Prius etc only use battery up to 20-30 mph; the PHEVs will run solely on battery upto 80 mph for 15-20 miles. Absolutely brilliant for me as I can 75% of my commute on battery and the remainder is done at 70 mph on the motorway.
I'm easily getting over 99 mpg each morning. The downside is long distance; anything over 50 miles sees my mpg drop to circa 40 mpg. I've driven from Birmingham to Newcastle and back again and my mpg over the whole trip was 37 mpg. No brilliant, but hardly horrific. Journeys like that for me are a once every few month occurance.
TLDR; great for short commutes, not great for long distance. Dirty cheap BiK.
Eutopia is company car with inclusive fuel car. The tax is disgustingly low for a 280 bhp Mercedes....
jamieduff1981 said:
Overall I'd say you were getting very cheap running costs without the benefit of having a car flexible enough to run short or long distances. Wanting to go half the length of the country for free without stopping for hours at a time to charge is a bit like wanting the moon on a stick. I'd be very happy with the fuel usage you describe
Yeah, I'm very happy with the fuel economy; but it does require you to be disciplined enough to charge it and it has to fit with your lifestyle/driving circumstances.I spent a couple of months agonising over the C350e. Was it the right car for me? Could I charge it? How was it on fuel with no battery? Was the BiK saving worth it? What if I had to do a long drive? Loads of little things cross your mind and that's for a PHEV. I can't imagine the stuff you need to think about for a pure electric...!
For me it ended up being quite simple:
- I could charge it at home and work everyday.
- Most of my journeys are under 30 miles.
- The base model Merc PHEV is the sports trim, a grade up from mine as standard or an optional extra (that I pay).
- The interior is a nice place to be, has all of the toys and air suspension.
- It is automatic as standard.
- The BiK is far less than the equivalent diesel.
- I could happily manage the occasional drop in mpg over longer journeys.
- It can be quite fun when put into sports mode (0-60 in 5.8, not bad for a 2000kg car).
- It is generally a nice looking car.
The Beaver King said:
I've mentioned it in my comment above, but the German PHEV all have regenerative braking. That said, you'll only recover maybe 10% of the battery capacity on a journey; it just isn't a huge amount of energy.
You also need to bear in mind that the Prius etc only use battery up to 20-30 mph; the PHEVs will run solely on battery upto 80 mph for 15-20 miles. Absolutely brilliant for me as I can 75% of my commute on battery and the remainder is done at 70 mph on the motorway.
I'm easily getting over 99 mpg each morning. The downside is long distance; anything over 50 miles sees my mpg drop to circa 40 mpg. I've driven from Birmingham to Newcastle and back again and my mpg over the whole trip was 37 mpg. No brilliant, but hardly horrific. Journeys like that for me are a once every few month occurance.
TLDR; great for short commutes, not great for long distance. Dirty cheap BiK.
Eutopia is company car with inclusive fuel car. The tax is disgustingly low for a 280 bhp Mercedes....
That does sound better although it's a shame it doesn't do so well at long distance, surely that's just a matter of programming it better? Add a switchable long distance cruise mode so it uses the battery sparingly but for longer. Not sure what the Prius does but I'm pretty sure the mpg doesn't just drop off after 50 miles, the Prius one just seems to be slightly better thought out in that regard.You also need to bear in mind that the Prius etc only use battery up to 20-30 mph; the PHEVs will run solely on battery upto 80 mph for 15-20 miles. Absolutely brilliant for me as I can 75% of my commute on battery and the remainder is done at 70 mph on the motorway.
I'm easily getting over 99 mpg each morning. The downside is long distance; anything over 50 miles sees my mpg drop to circa 40 mpg. I've driven from Birmingham to Newcastle and back again and my mpg over the whole trip was 37 mpg. No brilliant, but hardly horrific. Journeys like that for me are a once every few month occurance.
TLDR; great for short commutes, not great for long distance. Dirty cheap BiK.
Eutopia is company car with inclusive fuel car. The tax is disgustingly low for a 280 bhp Mercedes....
Blue Oval84 said:
Warby80 said:
If you are never charging it, it is just a heavy 2.0t petrol. If it was charged im sure a lot of the town miles would be on electric only and the mpg figures would be quite different?
^What he said.I'd be quite happy with 20-25mpg around town in a big and heavy 2.0 petrol car. Even more so with 40+ on a run.
Definitely a car that's designed to be charged up, why would you even buy one of these if you weren't going to charge it?
The end.
As a higher rate taxpayer the car will cost me £135 a month including unlimited Super Unleaded!
Edited by Soov535 on Tuesday 6th December 13:13
Guvernator said:
That does sound better although it's a shame it doesn't do so well at long distance, surely that's just a matter of programming it better? Add a switchable long distance cruise mode so it uses the battery sparingly but for longer. Not sure what the Prius does but I'm pretty sure the mpg doesn't just drop off after 50 miles, the Prius one just seems to be slightly better thought out in that regard.
Most of the Japanese hybrids (the closed system ones) are better for long distance. The main reason being that they use smaller engines and are running around 100 bhp; focusing purely on fuel economy.The Germans have gone a different way; they've given the PHEV a standard 2.0 litre petrol engine (circa 200 bhp) and then a 80 bhp battery. They are more about the company car market; lower BiK and decent performance.
Volvo have just released a PHEV diesel version, which I think is a great idea. Mixing the benefits of PHEV with the long range ability of a diesel.
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