HELP: BMW 330E 200 miles to empty.
Discussion
I think the 330e does have regenerative braking, but you'd need to descend from the top of Stelvio to put any meaningful charge into it if you're starting from the battery being flat.
Presumably it's more helpful if you charge it overnight and live somewhere hilly (like Cornwall?) where there'd be enough downhill on a typical 30 minute journey to actually regain some of that charge.
Presumably it's more helpful if you charge it overnight and live somewhere hilly (like Cornwall?) where there'd be enough downhill on a typical 30 minute journey to actually regain some of that charge.
CraigyMc said:
Soov535 said:
But it's in the lowest band so short of a bike you can't get cheaper!!
Isn't there a "cars of high value" thing in the tax system next year too?Cars over £40K list cost more for the first 5 years - £310 a year for £1550 total over the five.
T16OLE said:
I'm all for he concept of Hybrid's, but that fact it doesn't charge itself is a bit crap
Jesus Christ, are we doing this again...?The 330e and the C350e have regenerative braking; so yes, it will charge itself whilst driving.
What people fail to realise is how little energy you actually reclaim through regen-braking, it really is f
k all. A Prius or Lexus 300h etc (running a closed hybrid system) will do about 500 metres on the battery and only up to 30 mph, so regen-braking is enough to keep it topped up.Running a car at 80 mph for 15 miles uses a lot of bloody power, way more than regen-braking can recover.
If I drive the C350e for 30 miles, I'll probably gain an additional 3-5 miles from regen-braking or coasting.
If I was recovering 30 miles of energy for every 30 miles of driving, then we'd have invented perpetual motion and that would be something to talk about....
VerySideways said:
I think the 330e does have regenerative braking, but you'd need to descend from the top of Stelvio to put any meaningful charge into it if you're starting from the battery being flat.
I *think* it just has a motor/generator (attached to the gearbox?), and not in wheel motors. Hence it's not ideal for recovering kinetic energy under braking. If you can anticipate enough that you decelerate rather than brake, it's probably not so bad.The Beaver King said:
T16OLE said:
I'm all for he concept of Hybrid's, but that fact it doesn't charge itself is a bit crap
Jesus Christ, are we doing this again...?The 330e and the C350e have regenerative braking; so yes, it will charge itself whilst driving.
What people fail to realise is how little energy you actually reclaim through regen-braking, it really is f
k all. A Prius or Lexus 300h etc (running a closed hybrid system) will do about 500 metres on the battery and only up to 30 mph, so regen-braking is enough to keep it topped up.Running a car at 80 mph for 15 miles uses a lot of bloody power, way more than regen-braking can recover.
If I drive the C350e for 30 miles, I'll probably gain an additional 3-5 miles from regen-braking or coasting.
If I was recovering 30 miles of energy for every 30 miles of driving, then we'd have invented perpetual motion and that would be something to talk about....
I know the Toyota can't really run on just battery power alone but not sure the limited use this might offer outweighs the huge disadvantage that you'd basically regularly be running out of battery power and just end up with a very heavy 2 litre car like the OP does.
Guvernator said:
I think what he means is that it doesn't charge itself from the engine like a Prius does. I know there are different types of hybrid system but I'm not sure what the advantages of the 330e system are compared to what Toyota use but it just seems a little less practical to me.
I know the Toyota can't really run on just battery power alone but not sure the limited use this might offer outweighs the huge disadvantage that you'd basically regularly be running out of battery power and just end up with a very heavy 2 litre car like the OP does.
But it does; it is called E-charge mode and you can use it whilst driving to charge the battery, but it does it by over-reving the engine. I know the Toyota can't really run on just battery power alone but not sure the limited use this might offer outweighs the huge disadvantage that you'd basically regularly be running out of battery power and just end up with a very heavy 2 litre car like the OP does.
The advantage is that 5 days a week, 48 weeks a year, I drive into work and I do 160 mpg, sometimes more. A Prius would do a consistent 60-80mpg.
For the once every week or or so I do over 50 miles, that drops to 60mpg and the occasional 100+ mile journey sees around 40-50mpg.
So it is only the long journeys I really suffer, but over the course of the year I'm quids in. Factor the BiK saving into that, which is currently 15%-ish less than the Prius and I'm much better off.
It does have to fit your lifestyle though and I spent months researching and check the figures before I made the decision. If you want to put it in simple terms:
0 - 30 miles: PHEV
30 - 50 miles: Diesel or Hybrid
50+ miles: Diesel
Even then, the Hybrid is really only suited to town/city or B roads, where you have plenty of stop-start moments. On the motorway, the diesel is still king.
The Beaver King said:
Even then, the Hybrid is really only suited to town/city or B roads, where you have plenty of stop-start moments. On the motorway, the diesel is still king.
Indeed, ideally you'd have a lightweight electric/hybrid city car for city use, but a low slung and aerodynamic saloon with a conventional turbo engine for long motorway journeys where aerodynamics are king.The Beaver King said:
But it does; it is called E-charge mode and you can use it whilst driving to charge the battery, but it does it by over-reving the engine.
The advantage is that 5 days a week, 48 weeks a year, I drive into work and I do 160 mpg, sometimes more. A Prius would do a consistent 60-80mpg.
For the once every week or or so I do over 50 miles, that drops to 60mpg and the occasional 100+ mile journey sees around 40-50mpg.
So it is only the long journeys I really suffer, but over the course of the year I'm quids in. Factor the BiK saving into that, which is currently 15%-ish less than the Prius and I'm much better off.
It does have to fit your lifestyle though and I spent months researching and check the figures before I made the decision. If you want to put it in simple terms:
0 - 30 miles: PHEV
30 - 50 miles: Diesel or Hybrid
50+ miles: Diesel
Even then, the Hybrid is really only suited to town/city or B roads, where you have plenty of stop-start moments. On the motorway, the diesel is still king.
Sounds about right. The C350e is the first car I've had where the average consumption goes down after a long run.The advantage is that 5 days a week, 48 weeks a year, I drive into work and I do 160 mpg, sometimes more. A Prius would do a consistent 60-80mpg.
For the once every week or or so I do over 50 miles, that drops to 60mpg and the occasional 100+ mile journey sees around 40-50mpg.
So it is only the long journeys I really suffer, but over the course of the year I'm quids in. Factor the BiK saving into that, which is currently 15%-ish less than the Prius and I'm much better off.
It does have to fit your lifestyle though and I spent months researching and check the figures before I made the decision. If you want to put it in simple terms:
0 - 30 miles: PHEV
30 - 50 miles: Diesel or Hybrid
50+ miles: Diesel
Even then, the Hybrid is really only suited to town/city or B roads, where you have plenty of stop-start moments. On the motorway, the diesel is still king.
jamieduff1981 said:
Over long distance it's just a fuel powered car. The Prius is crap long distance too. The power has to come from somewhere. Driving well enough to be economical means there isn't much regenerative braking to be had, which means all the power either comes from a charge-up point or from petrol. It doesn't really matter what programming it has in that respect; it can use up all the energy added from the charge up point before using petrol, or it can spread the petrol use out. If travelling significantly further than the pure electric range then it's just a heavy petrol engine car and will use exactly the same amount of fuel thereafter as a heavy petrol engine car would. You could programme it differently and introduce petrol consumption earlier or later, but a 2000kg car on a 200 mile trip needs a corresponding amount of energy to spend. If the battery range is 30 miles then it needs the liquid fuel a pure petrol 2000kg car would need to travel 170 miles.
....Except the Prius is a low drag Atkinson cycle car. So it wont use 'exactly the same fuel'.The Beaver King said:
Jesus Christ, are we doing this again...?
The 330e and the C350e have regenerative braking; so yes, it will charge itself whilst driving.
What people fail to realise is how little energy you actually reclaim through regen-braking, it really is fk all. A Prius or Lexus 300h etc (running a closed hybrid system) will do about 500 metres on the battery and only up to 30 mph, so regen-braking is enough to keep it topped up.
Problem with those little batteries is you can only charge them so fast aswell.The 330e and the C350e have regenerative braking; so yes, it will charge itself whilst driving.
What people fail to realise is how little energy you actually reclaim through regen-braking, it really is f
k all. A Prius or Lexus 300h etc (running a closed hybrid system) will do about 500 metres on the battery and only up to 30 mph, so regen-braking is enough to keep it topped up.gweaver said:
So it would appear that it has an alternator-generator, electric motor and a small battery, but no regenerative braking?
If the battery is flat, there's no real regen, and it weighs 1735kg (according to Autocar), it's hardly surprising that the fuel consumption is terrible around town.
Being cynical, it would seem that this car was developed purely to game the NEDC tests. The two environmental benefits are that:
a) some of the pollution will be moved from city centres to power stations
b) more of these means less diesels (less pollution again)
Quoting the pollution statement, I think you will find that all electricity for EV is generated by green energy and not coal/oil/nuclear power, and when I say green energy it is from wind farms Solar etc.If the battery is flat, there's no real regen, and it weighs 1735kg (according to Autocar), it's hardly surprising that the fuel consumption is terrible around town.
Being cynical, it would seem that this car was developed purely to game the NEDC tests. The two environmental benefits are that:
a) some of the pollution will be moved from city centres to power stations
b) more of these means less diesels (less pollution again)
bmw320ci said:
Quoting the pollution statement, I think you will find that all electricity for EV is generated by green energy and not coal/oil/nuclear power, and when I say green energy it is from wind farms Solar etc.
Yes, it's amazing how they route the electric current from the wind and solar farms to your electric car charger socket (especially when it's dark and calm outside), and the electric current from coal and gas powered stations to your phone charger and tv and cooker!Edited by gweaver on Tuesday 13th December 13:13
gweaver said:
Yes, it's amazing how they route the electric current from the wind and solar farms to your electric car charger socket (especially when it's dark and calm outside), and the electric current from coal and gas powered stations to your phone charger and tv and cooker!
okay lets be more explicate, when I said electricity for EV I am quoting dedicated charging stations/posts not a 25mtr extension cable dragged though an open window from your front room.Edited by gweaver on Tuesday 13th December 13:13
Also for info read the article from The Guardian (before you all start, in general I do not share the papers political views) https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/may/1...
My 3.0 Z4 gets 29.9mpg average and that's with me driving it "enthusiastically" all the time - this is about 260-270 miles to a tank at £50. On a run it gets 40mpg so I can see we've progessed so far with modern car engines 
Sure it's lighter at 1400kgs or so but still, I'd be pissed!
Sure it's lighter at 1400kgs or so but still, I'd be pissed!
Edited by thecremeegg on Tuesday 13th December 13:28
thecremeegg said:
My 3.0 Z4 gets 29.9mpg average and that's with me driving it "enthusiastically" all the time - this is about 260-270 miles to a tank at £50. On a run it gets 40mpg so I can see we've progessed so far with modern car engines
Sure it's lighter at 1400kgs or so but still, I'd be pissed!
Interestingly enough though, the Z4 is only 0.4 seconds quicker to 60mph. Sure it's lighter at 1400kgs or so but still, I'd be pissed!
Edited by thecremeegg on Tuesday 13th December 13:28
Obviously that isn't saying a 330e is anywhere near as quick 'real-world' as a Z4 (because it isn't) but not bad for something with a 2 litre engine and an extra 500kg in weight.
bmw320ci said:
okay lets be more explicate, when I said electricity for EV I am quoting dedicated charging stations/posts not a 25mtr extension cable dragged though an open window from your front room.
Also for info read the article from The Guardian (before you all start, in general I do not share the papers political views) https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/may/1...
Kind of interesting article, but not enough said about our botched energy policy, long term neglect and underinvestment in nuclear, environmental and efficiency issues with renewables, gas power stations running on imported fuel, energy security with Russia controlling supply to much of Europe.Also for info read the article from The Guardian (before you all start, in general I do not share the papers political views) https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/may/1...
Ideally we'd have much more nuclear, solar and energy storage. Wind power is an uneconomic and relatively ineffective eyesore, and tidal is fraught with significant engineering and ecological issues.
In terms of supply matching demand, renewables are really difficult. Plug-in hybrids will generally be plugged in at night, so without energy storage solar is less useful, and there is generally less wind power at night too.
The energy needs to be stored somehow. Options include more electric mountains, or perhaps converting the energy to fuel. Hydrogen infrastructure is expensive, inefficient, and doesn't exist. Fuel from air hasn't been scaled up, and will be inefficient too. Batteries are heavy and an environmental nightmare. We just aren't there with the technology yet.
The Beaver King said:
NickCQ said:
spmaidment said:
Just as it was such a good lease deal....
Abandon thread! Multi-page argument about to be triggered...A lot of guys where I work have picked up the C350e or 330e for the BiK relief and not bothered to charge them; then they wonder why they aren't seeing any savings and why they are having to fill up every few days.
It's only a hybrid if you charge it....
ks.It's only a plug in hybrid if you charge it.
A hybrid uses regenerative braking to improve mpg.
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