RE: Mercedes-Benz 500SL: Spotted
Discussion
The later sports styling kit does look pretty good, even to someone like me who prefers the pre-facelift cars.
If only sterling wasn't in the crapper I'd be pondering the "investment potential" of this car. Classic MB colours silver over black, M120 engine, pano roof, perfect stock interior, decent MB service history (there's a free Carfax report linked through the dealer page), 50k miles and a life lived in Georgia/Florida so presumably not seen a salty road.
http://sanfer-sports-cars.ebizautos.com/detail-199...
When you see European dealers asking silly money (20k+ Euros for higher mileage older V8 cars) you wonder what a V12 that is at or near collector-quality might go for, after import taxes and hassle.
ETA - though it does look like some wiseguy bled to death in the boot.
If only sterling wasn't in the crapper I'd be pondering the "investment potential" of this car. Classic MB colours silver over black, M120 engine, pano roof, perfect stock interior, decent MB service history (there's a free Carfax report linked through the dealer page), 50k miles and a life lived in Georgia/Florida so presumably not seen a salty road.
http://sanfer-sports-cars.ebizautos.com/detail-199...
When you see European dealers asking silly money (20k+ Euros for higher mileage older V8 cars) you wonder what a V12 that is at or near collector-quality might go for, after import taxes and hassle.
ETA - though it does look like some wiseguy bled to death in the boot.
Edited by Zonergem on Thursday 19th January 12:11
To go back to the car featured in the original post - it's not having an easy time finding a new owner.
Despite posting on C&C and PH, and getting the full Spotted treatment, the current owner had to stick it on eBay in the weeks before Christmas where it didn't do very well. IIRC there was only one bid and the car was knocked down for 5100.
But now it has reappeared, with the seller writing that he was jerked around by a non-paying auction winner.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mercedes-Benz-500SL-1991...
This time around he has included the itemised bill from the SL Shop, which shows that the SL Shop is a business - one with a good reputation and a satisfied client base - but a business first and foremost. They charged £1/fuse for white 8A ceramic fuses x16 (aka Continental or torpedo), 70p for red 16A x8 and then £37 to change them over.
Older fuses used aluminum (or another silver coloured metal?) as the fusible material and suffered galvanic corrosion in consequence since the contacts in the fuse box are copper. I have to do my fuses - I've ordered 60 odd assorted 8A, 16A and 25A fuses at £14.50 delivered. I found a UK supplier whose fuses appear to use a copper fusible element - the best are meant to be made by Floesser in Germany but they are only available through US ebay and the postage is prohibitive. I believe I will be able to manage the task of opening the fuse box, checking the fuse map and replacing the fuses but Pride goeth before a fall and all that.
Similarly I have to do the bonnet insulation (my pad is ok but the bodger who fitted it didn't clean down the old pad properly or used the wrong adhesive. The parts will run me £115 or so and not £220 including labour. The job is laborious but not obviously difficult, at least if the many How-To videos online are to be believed.
The invoices make interesting reading, at least if you're an R129 beard-in-embryo like me. A few new bushes, some new steering damper parts, gearbox cooler and exhaust heat shields and the silencer/back box (£577) doesn't come close to a total overhaul though. £74 spent to "remove the road wheels, remove dust covers to all and refit wheels". Well, you can't put a price on peace of mind, eh?
Much as I want to like this car (and I own a 500SL from the same year that was only 1600 units earlier on the production line) I think this stands as a example of a car where the routine maintenance has been kept up (certainly recently, probably in the past if the FMBSH checks out) but where the big ticket items are still to come.
M119 engines are well-built but at this mileage the timing chain will definitely be nearing replacement, along with other engine plastics like chain guides and oil feeder tubes. They like new distributor caps and rotors (one for each bank in the V8 and V12 cards) as there is a persistent condensation problem. The engine mounts will probably also need changing. Shocks, springs and many other mechanical components are probably nearing the end of their service life and will require replacement or reconditioning soon.
I noticed a reference number on the SL Shop quotation of 1059.02. I wonder if this was the second option - the "keep-you-going-for-now" experience, and that 1059.01 was the full 12-15k mechanical overhaul. That kind of expenditure would never pass even the most warped Man-Maths test as the market will surely never like a higher mileage car, even if the MB part numbers gleamed out from every inch of the underside.
Despite all that negativity there are still some reasons to like the car. This is a 129.066 build (effectively Series 1) and should not suffer from wiring harness issues, though the wiring and PCB in the Electronic Throttle Assembly can deteriorate, meaning either a £2.5k replacement or a rebuild. It uses Bosch KE-Jetronic fuel distribution (the silver spider at the rear of the engine compartment behind the air filter covers) which was replaced on later models but which can be overhauled easily enough (eg by KMI in Herts). The paint on pre-facelift cars was generally thicker and more corrosion-resistant than on later cars. And the SL Shop looked at it quite hard and didn't find anything horribly, terribly wrong. The MOT history (car's registration is now J850 ONM) shows a lack of use in the last decade but nothing that the SL Shop didn't seem to have addressed in their micro-resto.
And of course it's a goddamn Mercedes-Benz SL with the wind in your hair and 326 horses under the long, long bonnet...
Even though my 74000 mile car wants plenty spending on it I am getting tempted to attempt to get this one cheap, swap over any bits that are better/newer than on my existing car (I also have 278 grey leather inside) and then have a summer car and a winter car.
Can I sign over power of attorney to a Bargiste until this time next week?
Edited for sense and link to auction.
Despite posting on C&C and PH, and getting the full Spotted treatment, the current owner had to stick it on eBay in the weeks before Christmas where it didn't do very well. IIRC there was only one bid and the car was knocked down for 5100.
But now it has reappeared, with the seller writing that he was jerked around by a non-paying auction winner.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mercedes-Benz-500SL-1991...
This time around he has included the itemised bill from the SL Shop, which shows that the SL Shop is a business - one with a good reputation and a satisfied client base - but a business first and foremost. They charged £1/fuse for white 8A ceramic fuses x16 (aka Continental or torpedo), 70p for red 16A x8 and then £37 to change them over.
Older fuses used aluminum (or another silver coloured metal?) as the fusible material and suffered galvanic corrosion in consequence since the contacts in the fuse box are copper. I have to do my fuses - I've ordered 60 odd assorted 8A, 16A and 25A fuses at £14.50 delivered. I found a UK supplier whose fuses appear to use a copper fusible element - the best are meant to be made by Floesser in Germany but they are only available through US ebay and the postage is prohibitive. I believe I will be able to manage the task of opening the fuse box, checking the fuse map and replacing the fuses but Pride goeth before a fall and all that.
Similarly I have to do the bonnet insulation (my pad is ok but the bodger who fitted it didn't clean down the old pad properly or used the wrong adhesive. The parts will run me £115 or so and not £220 including labour. The job is laborious but not obviously difficult, at least if the many How-To videos online are to be believed.
The invoices make interesting reading, at least if you're an R129 beard-in-embryo like me. A few new bushes, some new steering damper parts, gearbox cooler and exhaust heat shields and the silencer/back box (£577) doesn't come close to a total overhaul though. £74 spent to "remove the road wheels, remove dust covers to all and refit wheels". Well, you can't put a price on peace of mind, eh?
Much as I want to like this car (and I own a 500SL from the same year that was only 1600 units earlier on the production line) I think this stands as a example of a car where the routine maintenance has been kept up (certainly recently, probably in the past if the FMBSH checks out) but where the big ticket items are still to come.
M119 engines are well-built but at this mileage the timing chain will definitely be nearing replacement, along with other engine plastics like chain guides and oil feeder tubes. They like new distributor caps and rotors (one for each bank in the V8 and V12 cards) as there is a persistent condensation problem. The engine mounts will probably also need changing. Shocks, springs and many other mechanical components are probably nearing the end of their service life and will require replacement or reconditioning soon.
I noticed a reference number on the SL Shop quotation of 1059.02. I wonder if this was the second option - the "keep-you-going-for-now" experience, and that 1059.01 was the full 12-15k mechanical overhaul. That kind of expenditure would never pass even the most warped Man-Maths test as the market will surely never like a higher mileage car, even if the MB part numbers gleamed out from every inch of the underside.
Despite all that negativity there are still some reasons to like the car. This is a 129.066 build (effectively Series 1) and should not suffer from wiring harness issues, though the wiring and PCB in the Electronic Throttle Assembly can deteriorate, meaning either a £2.5k replacement or a rebuild. It uses Bosch KE-Jetronic fuel distribution (the silver spider at the rear of the engine compartment behind the air filter covers) which was replaced on later models but which can be overhauled easily enough (eg by KMI in Herts). The paint on pre-facelift cars was generally thicker and more corrosion-resistant than on later cars. And the SL Shop looked at it quite hard and didn't find anything horribly, terribly wrong. The MOT history (car's registration is now J850 ONM) shows a lack of use in the last decade but nothing that the SL Shop didn't seem to have addressed in their micro-resto.
And of course it's a goddamn Mercedes-Benz SL with the wind in your hair and 326 horses under the long, long bonnet...
Even though my 74000 mile car wants plenty spending on it I am getting tempted to attempt to get this one cheap, swap over any bits that are better/newer than on my existing car (I also have 278 grey leather inside) and then have a summer car and a winter car.
Can I sign over power of attorney to a Bargiste until this time next week?
Edited for sense and link to auction.
Edited by Zonergem on Sunday 22 January 21:06
Edited by Zonergem on Sunday 22 January 21:24
Edited by Zonergem on Monday 23 January 00:22
Edited by Zonergem on Monday 23 January 08:32
Zonergem said:
Older fuses used aluminum (or another silver coloured metal?) as the fusible material and suffered galvanic corrosion in consequence since the contacts in the fuse box are copper. I have to do my fuses - I've ordered 60 odd assorted 8A, 16A and 25A fuses at £14.50 delivered. I found a UK supplier whose fuses appear to use a copper
Edited for sense and link to auction.
Do you have a link? Incidentally I've cleaned all my aluminum fuses and squirted them with switch cleaner, seems to do the job.Edited for sense and link to auction.
Edited by Zonergem on Sunday 22 January 21:06
Edited by Zonergem on Sunday 22 January 21:24
https://www.arc-components.com/continental-fuses-a...
The white (8A), red (16A) and blue (25A) fuses appear to have copper fusible elements. The yellow 5A seems different but the R129 doesn't use them anyway.
Here are some beardy Porsche types discussing ceramic vs plastic bodies and some alternate suppliers.
http://www.impactbumpers.com/forum/index.php?/topi...
some beardy Mercedes people asking about fuse quality
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w126-s-se-sec-sel-...
and an American eBay seller whose prices seem decent.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mercedes-Ceramic-Fuse-Se...
I **really** need to get out more (preferably in my R129).
The white (8A), red (16A) and blue (25A) fuses appear to have copper fusible elements. The yellow 5A seems different but the R129 doesn't use them anyway.
Here are some beardy Porsche types discussing ceramic vs plastic bodies and some alternate suppliers.
http://www.impactbumpers.com/forum/index.php?/topi...
some beardy Mercedes people asking about fuse quality
http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w126-s-se-sec-sel-...
and an American eBay seller whose prices seem decent.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mercedes-Ceramic-Fuse-Se...
I **really** need to get out more (preferably in my R129).
12-15k was just a figure plucked from the air. I could well be very wrong but on the other hand I know the SL Shop will present a staged outline of work for even good condition R107s which can get very expensive fast. But some components can fail in ways that cascade and cause a chain of damage, particularly electrical parts (the ETA for example) that aren't cheap to repair or replace.
The key point made again and again by r129sl and others is that these were 60-90k cars when new and still require quite substantial maintenance outlay even when they are bought for 5k. As parts availability becomes more limited this effect will only multiply.
The key point made again and again by r129sl and others is that these were 60-90k cars when new and still require quite substantial maintenance outlay even when they are bought for 5k. As parts availability becomes more limited this effect will only multiply.
Everything Zonergem says is very true, although I suppose I'd add that most of these cars seem to do about 2000 or 3000 miles a year, so if you buy a car with 135K miles on it that's five to seven years before you'll need to do the heavy lifting to replace the timing chain and associated bits.
Of course if you use it as a hard-charging every-day long distance business travel tool as r129sl does with his, you get through that interval in no time, but that's very unusual use for most of them these days.
Of course if you use it as a hard-charging every-day long distance business travel tool as r129sl does with his, you get through that interval in no time, but that's very unusual use for most of them these days.
Edited by Lowtimer on Monday 23 January 12:01
dickyf said:
Id love a late R129 500 with the AMG kit and pan roof but finding a nice sensible mileage one is difficult.
I've seen a few at Coupe & Cabriolet - they're Mercedes specialists for..erm, coupes and cabriolets. They always have R129 SLs and most tend to be high spec with pano roofs which is a bonus. You will pay through the nose though! To be fair they usually are the up to the best standard.Haven't been there personally but I believe notL however, to replace all the guides is a big job involving extensve dismantling.
http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5...
I am talking here of the 32-valve M119. I haven't looked into the needs of the later 24-valve M113 V8.
http://www.500eboard.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5...
I am talking here of the 32-valve M119. I haven't looked into the needs of the later 24-valve M113 V8.
sorry, i meant off market or privately.
Kierkegaard said:
I've seen a few at Coupe & Cabriolet - they're Mercedes specialists for..erm, coupes and cabriolets. They always have R129 SLs and most tend to be high spec with pano roofs which is a bonus. You will pay through the nose though! To be fair they usually are the up to the best standard.
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