Discussion
Kawasicki said:
That mini is a very neutral car, that tends to understeer under power, like every fwd vehicle ever built.
Providing the front axle doesn't lose lateral grip on the edge of the traction circle (which I now understand is not the definition of understeer), I am not too bothered about the semantics.Edited by nickfrog on Wednesday 21st December 16:19
22 pages & not a single mention of what is good handling in a road car. You are probably all too young to have any idea. They had stopped making nice handling road cars by the mid 60s.
The best ever handling road car was my 1959 Simca Aronde. A naturally completely tail happy car, the tail went out at the first turning of the steering wheel, & stayed out there, despite application of opposite lock, until all the wheels were straight again. Wonderful fun.
My 1952 Singer roadster had it, but with mechanical brakes, you couldn't exploit it as in the Simca.
Ah yes, the XK 150 S Jag. It had it, with enough power to give you total command of that tail. Of course it was not as natural an oversteer as the others, but still great.
The beauty of these cars, you could exploit every bit of grip their cross ply 4" wide tyres could provide quite safely. At their best they had perhaps 4 tenths the cornering power of todays shopping trolleys, so you had fun without upsetting the law. Hell you were even going slowly enough that you probably could stop before you hit anything when you did lose them. That did not stop you feeling like Fangio, or Mossy while you were throwing them around.
Yep, front engine rear drive, live axel on cart springs was the formula for fun. When cars became too competent, the fun factor diminished. By the time I had my 1962 Morgan +4 setting production sports car lap records around Bathurst, it had become too competent to be casual fun on the public roads.
I do feel sorry for you youngsters who never had the chance to drive road cars up towards their limit the way we could when those limits were so much lower. Yes I still do the odd track day in the Triumph TR8, or the S2000, but somehow it is not the same as a blast through the twisties with the car club people on a club run used to be.
The best ever handling road car was my 1959 Simca Aronde. A naturally completely tail happy car, the tail went out at the first turning of the steering wheel, & stayed out there, despite application of opposite lock, until all the wheels were straight again. Wonderful fun.
My 1952 Singer roadster had it, but with mechanical brakes, you couldn't exploit it as in the Simca.
Ah yes, the XK 150 S Jag. It had it, with enough power to give you total command of that tail. Of course it was not as natural an oversteer as the others, but still great.
The beauty of these cars, you could exploit every bit of grip their cross ply 4" wide tyres could provide quite safely. At their best they had perhaps 4 tenths the cornering power of todays shopping trolleys, so you had fun without upsetting the law. Hell you were even going slowly enough that you probably could stop before you hit anything when you did lose them. That did not stop you feeling like Fangio, or Mossy while you were throwing them around.
Yep, front engine rear drive, live axel on cart springs was the formula for fun. When cars became too competent, the fun factor diminished. By the time I had my 1962 Morgan +4 setting production sports car lap records around Bathurst, it had become too competent to be casual fun on the public roads.
I do feel sorry for you youngsters who never had the chance to drive road cars up towards their limit the way we could when those limits were so much lower. Yes I still do the odd track day in the Triumph TR8, or the S2000, but somehow it is not the same as a blast through the twisties with the car club people on a club run used to be.
Kawasicki said:
nickfrog said:
heebeegeetee said:
That's very good. For me the problems arise when people start that jazz musicians aren't very good, or that the basis of jazz is all wrong or they're not proper musicians or even jazz fans aren't real men. 
Anyway, here's some entirely gratuitous footage of fwd disputing physics innit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvUQ3Jkwpeo
Or 1290cc fwd v 7 litre rwd
https://youtu.be/bZZ-gLgRDrw?t=8m18s
So much understeer... whatever that means this week.Anyway, here's some entirely gratuitous footage of fwd disputing physics innit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvUQ3Jkwpeo
Or 1290cc fwd v 7 litre rwd
https://youtu.be/bZZ-gLgRDrw?t=8m18s
Hasbeen said:
22 pages & not a single mention of what is good handling in a road car. You are probably all too young to have any idea. They had stopped making nice handling road cars by the mid 60s.
The best ever handling road car was my 1959 Simca Aronde. A naturally completely tail happy car, the tail went out at the first turning of the steering wheel, & stayed out there, despite application of opposite lock, until all the wheels were straight again. Wonderful fun.
My 1952 Singer roadster had it, but with mechanical brakes, you couldn't exploit it as in the Simca.
Ah yes, the XK 150 S Jag. It had it, with enough power to give you total command of that tail. Of course it was not as natural an oversteer as the others, but still great.
The beauty of these cars, you could exploit every bit of grip their cross ply 4" wide tyres could provide quite safely. At their best they had perhaps 4 tenths the cornering power of todays shopping trolleys, so you had fun without upsetting the law. Hell you were even going slowly enough that you probably could stop before you hit anything when you did lose them. That did not stop you feeling like Fangio, or Mossy while you were throwing them around.
Yep, front engine rear drive, live axel on cart springs was the formula for fun. When cars became too competent, the fun factor diminished. By the time I had my 1962 Morgan +4 setting production sports car lap records around Bathurst, it had become too competent to be casual fun on the public roads.
I do feel sorry for you youngsters who never had the chance to drive road cars up towards their limit the way we could when those limits were so much lower. Yes I still do the odd track day in the Triumph TR8, or the S2000, but somehow it is not the same as a blast through the twisties with the car club people on a club run used to be.
Some good points there Hasbeen. Pretty much all cars on sale today are boring as hell to drive legally. The best ever handling road car was my 1959 Simca Aronde. A naturally completely tail happy car, the tail went out at the first turning of the steering wheel, & stayed out there, despite application of opposite lock, until all the wheels were straight again. Wonderful fun.
My 1952 Singer roadster had it, but with mechanical brakes, you couldn't exploit it as in the Simca.
Ah yes, the XK 150 S Jag. It had it, with enough power to give you total command of that tail. Of course it was not as natural an oversteer as the others, but still great.
The beauty of these cars, you could exploit every bit of grip their cross ply 4" wide tyres could provide quite safely. At their best they had perhaps 4 tenths the cornering power of todays shopping trolleys, so you had fun without upsetting the law. Hell you were even going slowly enough that you probably could stop before you hit anything when you did lose them. That did not stop you feeling like Fangio, or Mossy while you were throwing them around.
Yep, front engine rear drive, live axel on cart springs was the formula for fun. When cars became too competent, the fun factor diminished. By the time I had my 1962 Morgan +4 setting production sports car lap records around Bathurst, it had become too competent to be casual fun on the public roads.
I do feel sorry for you youngsters who never had the chance to drive road cars up towards their limit the way we could when those limits were so much lower. Yes I still do the odd track day in the Triumph TR8, or the S2000, but somehow it is not the same as a blast through the twisties with the car club people on a club run used to be.
22 pages and counting....? Haha
Have a clio 172 cup for my fwd needs (B roads - I would challenge any rwd to keep pace. Good luck!)
Crf250 enduro for my (pure) rwd needs (not bulls
t lateral internet bks)
& a decent pickup that switches from rwd to 4wd when I get to the dirt (which will easily out perform either of the aforementioned in suitably muddy conditions)
So where does that conclusion get us? Into another pointless debate I'm guessing....
Have a clio 172 cup for my fwd needs (B roads - I would challenge any rwd to keep pace. Good luck!)
Crf250 enduro for my (pure) rwd needs (not bulls
t lateral internet bks)& a decent pickup that switches from rwd to 4wd when I get to the dirt (which will easily out perform either of the aforementioned in suitably muddy conditions)
So where does that conclusion get us? Into another pointless debate I'm guessing....
DoubleTime said:
22 pages and counting....? Haha
Have a clio 172 cup for my fwd needs (B roads - I would challenge any rwd to keep pace. Good luck!)
Crf250 enduro for my (pure) rwd needs (not bullst lateral internet bks)
& a decent pickup that switches from rwd to 4wd when I get to the dirt (which will easily out perform either of the aforementioned in suitably muddy conditions)
So where does that conclusion get us? Into another pointless debate I'm guessing....
Cringeworthy. Has your 172 Cup had an engine and suspension transplant? If not, I can think of very many RWD cars that would keep up with it, and in fact be much faster. Or was that your way of saying 'I drive recklessly'?Have a clio 172 cup for my fwd needs (B roads - I would challenge any rwd to keep pace. Good luck!)
Crf250 enduro for my (pure) rwd needs (not bulls
t lateral internet bks)& a decent pickup that switches from rwd to 4wd when I get to the dirt (which will easily out perform either of the aforementioned in suitably muddy conditions)
So where does that conclusion get us? Into another pointless debate I'm guessing....
I could keep pace with my current car down a B road in almost anything with an adequate engine, since the majority of time speed is vision limited not grip limited (or at least should be). Having decent suspension and enough poke to get up to speed out of corners quickly is a larger determination of B road speed than outright handling.
ORD said:
Cringeworthy. Has your 172 Cup had an engine and suspension transplant? If not, I can think of very many RWD cars that would keep up with it, and in fact be much faster. Or was that your way of saying 'I drive recklessly'?
Haha. Spot the choice select cut? Beckham couldn't have crossed one with more pizzazz Mr. 911 carrera. I hate to say it, I'd Piss all over your chips down a B. Sorry.
Kisses
Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 21st December 18:12
Hasbeen said:
22 pages & not a single mention of what is good handling in a road car. You are probably all too young to have any idea. They had stopped making nice handling road cars by the mid 60s.
The best ever handling road car was my 1959 Simca Aronde. A naturally completely tail happy car, the tail went out at the first turning of the steering wheel, & stayed out there, despite application of opposite lock, until all the wheels were straight again. Wonderful fun.
My 1952 Singer roadster had it, but with mechanical brakes, you couldn't exploit it as in the Simca.
Ah yes, the XK 150 S Jag. It had it, with enough power to give you total command of that tail. Of course it was not as natural an oversteer as the others, but still great.
The beauty of these cars, you could exploit every bit of grip their cross ply 4" wide tyres could provide quite safely. At their best they had perhaps 4 tenths the cornering power of todays shopping trolleys, so you had fun without upsetting the law. Hell you were even going slowly enough that you probably could stop before you hit anything when you did lose them. That did not stop you feeling like Fangio, or Mossy while you were throwing them around.
Yep, front engine rear drive, live axel on cart springs was the formula for fun. When cars became too competent, the fun factor diminished. By the time I had my 1962 Morgan +4 setting production sports car lap records around Bathurst, it had become too competent to be casual fun on the public roads.
I do feel sorry for you youngsters who never had the chance to drive road cars up towards their limit the way we could when those limits were so much lower. Yes I still do the odd track day in the Triumph TR8, or the S2000, but somehow it is not the same as a blast through the twisties with the car club people on a club run used to be.
I was telling them pages ago that folk need to check out vintage racing. The best ever handling road car was my 1959 Simca Aronde. A naturally completely tail happy car, the tail went out at the first turning of the steering wheel, & stayed out there, despite application of opposite lock, until all the wheels were straight again. Wonderful fun.
My 1952 Singer roadster had it, but with mechanical brakes, you couldn't exploit it as in the Simca.
Ah yes, the XK 150 S Jag. It had it, with enough power to give you total command of that tail. Of course it was not as natural an oversteer as the others, but still great.
The beauty of these cars, you could exploit every bit of grip their cross ply 4" wide tyres could provide quite safely. At their best they had perhaps 4 tenths the cornering power of todays shopping trolleys, so you had fun without upsetting the law. Hell you were even going slowly enough that you probably could stop before you hit anything when you did lose them. That did not stop you feeling like Fangio, or Mossy while you were throwing them around.
Yep, front engine rear drive, live axel on cart springs was the formula for fun. When cars became too competent, the fun factor diminished. By the time I had my 1962 Morgan +4 setting production sports car lap records around Bathurst, it had become too competent to be casual fun on the public roads.
I do feel sorry for you youngsters who never had the chance to drive road cars up towards their limit the way we could when those limits were so much lower. Yes I still do the odd track day in the Triumph TR8, or the S2000, but somehow it is not the same as a blast through the twisties with the car club people on a club run used to be.
nickfrog said:
It doesn't need to as the front wheels are pointing in the right direction in the traction zone.
The rwd in front seems to be running wide. 
V8RX7 said:
Firstly: 
Secondly: do you only travel on B roads ?
Yes, absolutely officer! Secondly: do you only travel on B roads ?
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Notes:
For the avoidance of doubt.
Everything I write is a lie...
and I exaggerate my speeds tenfold...
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nickfrog said:
Debaser said:
nickfrog said:
It doesn't need to as the front wheels are pointing in the right direction in the traction zone.
Doesn't matter which way the wheels are pointing. It'll always obey the laws of physics. nickfrog said:
Debaser said:
nickfrog said:
It doesn't need to as the front wheels are pointing in the right direction in the traction zone.
Doesn't matter which way the wheels are pointing. It'll always obey the laws of physics. Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff