RE: Shed(s) of the Week: Alfa GTV and Fiat Coupe
Discussion
STiG911 said:
That Alfa's a nice little thing and does appear to have been well looked after, however...
People should run away from the Fiat. Not walk, run. It's MOT History has more holes than the average British road; for example: One of three reasons listed for failure in Sept 2015 notes excessive corrosion on the nearside vehicle structure with 30cm of the body mountings, but then a pass is registered on THE SAME DAY with no increase in mileage ?! The rest is even worse than that. Very Suspish.
Run, Run now.
I've not read the history, but if I may offer one plausible explanation to the above......owner could have been well aware of the impending rust failure and had arranged to get it fixed and MOT'd at the same time. The garage could have done the welding that day and retested it. Now that may seem odd (why test and fail then fix and retest?) but I've had this with my favoured garage, where I ask them to fix a known failure on the day of the test and they always put it through first to record the failure before fixing it. I can see logic in doing that.People should run away from the Fiat. Not walk, run. It's MOT History has more holes than the average British road; for example: One of three reasons listed for failure in Sept 2015 notes excessive corrosion on the nearside vehicle structure with 30cm of the body mountings, but then a pass is registered on THE SAME DAY with no increase in mileage ?! The rest is even worse than that. Very Suspish.
Run, Run now.
There is an error in the article. The GTV (and all tsparks) have a 36'000 mile or 3 year cambelt change. Very few have made it to 72'000 miles so it was lowered around 8 years ago. also, the oil pump is not a known weak point on these engines, however the big end bearings are very sensitive to oil and can be damaged by running oil at the minimum level over a short period of time.
The GTV is a great car but parts availability is getting a bit patchy now.
The GTV is a great car but parts availability is getting a bit patchy now.
PoopahScoopah said:
I'd struggle to choose between them but think I'd go with the Fiat as being slightly more practical (more rear leg room and some actual useable boot space for more than a packet of fags) and I always liked them in Scotts Green.
Either way though, I'd always be wishing I was in the V6/20VT version of either.
...then again, having actually looked at the adverts now, that GTV looks a fair bit cleaner. Or at least it polishes up well. Either way though, I'd always be wishing I was in the V6/20VT version of either.
had many GTV's and various coupes.
kept the GTV V6 and wish I'd kept the coupe 16VT. coupe much more practical and somewhat easier to live with but the alfa's the one I stuck with. don't know why, it's a pain and I'd consider mine to be a good one.
the belts thing on the TS still puzzles me though. I've read the horror stories but continental specialists are nowhere near as worried about the service interval as we are over here. I've had literally dozens of TS alfa's way overdue belts that haven't let go; must admit that with one or two of the real sheds I've had I deliberately played "belts roulette".
paul
kept the GTV V6 and wish I'd kept the coupe 16VT. coupe much more practical and somewhat easier to live with but the alfa's the one I stuck with. don't know why, it's a pain and I'd consider mine to be a good one.
the belts thing on the TS still puzzles me though. I've read the horror stories but continental specialists are nowhere near as worried about the service interval as we are over here. I've had literally dozens of TS alfa's way overdue belts that haven't let go; must admit that with one or two of the real sheds I've had I deliberately played "belts roulette".
paul
J4CKO said:
T16OLE said:
Only for the brave.
I had a few good 156's that gave me false hope. My wallet was well and truly relived of its contents during my short and expensive GTV owenership.
Pretty though
It's a £1000 car, a front wheel drive hatch based one, if you can wield a spanner, how bad can it be ? looks like work already done like the cam belt, ok it's not a Micra but not all that scary.I had a few good 156's that gave me false hope. My wallet was well and truly relived of its contents during my short and expensive GTV owenership.
Pretty though
There was a nice looking silver 02/03 reg GTV TS in the depths of Cornwall on eBay that went for £600-£700 about a month ago. The advert mentioned the alternator grumbling so I did a bit of research. It looks to be as difficult as the alternator on the Busso V6 when mounted transversely from the research I did. Options are to get at it via the OS front wheelarch or from the back and above and removing all of the inlet gubbins to get access. That method involved one those tools with a flexible shaft between the handle and interface to the screw or bolt.
Well done to the people that had done it and written up the guides on the Internet how to do it.
Oddball RS said:
The Fiat in 1998 20V format is a five pot not a four and was rated at 170Bhp not 154, not the most accurate of articles.
https://www.fccuk.org/?navi=THE%20CAR&page=2.0...170bhp sounds like the figure for the 2.4 five pot as used in the Stilo Schumacher Limited Edition, Abarth and possibly whatever the premium leather lined version was called, if there was such a model in the Stilo range.
Edited by carinaman on Friday 9th December 12:35
How the bloody hell have I managed to never, ever notice that the Fiat Coupe and Alfa GTV are the same car? I have literally, despite having been in both at various times, NEVER seen them mentioned in the same article, and my brain has never associated the two in any way.
How is this possible? They're practically twins!
I'll hand my card in at the door...
How is this possible? They're practically twins!
I'll hand my card in at the door...
TartanPaint said:
How the bloody hell have I managed to never, ever notice that the Fiat Coupe and Alfa GTV are the same car? I have literally, despite having been in both at various times, NEVER seen them mentioned in the same article, and my brain has never associated the two in any way.
How is this possible? They're practically twins!
I'll hand my card in at the door...
No card handing in needed. Same Tipo underpinnings. The rear suspension in the GTV is very different, and one of the reasons it is a 2+2 rather than a 4 seater. That's also why the Fiat Coupe has a more useable boot as the rear suspension of the Alfa impinge on that too.How is this possible? They're practically twins!
I'll hand my card in at the door...
Someone that put the 16V Turbo Coupe/Integrale/Thema Turbo engine in a GTV TS opined that it was a straightforward swap.
spreadsheet monkey said:
Prefer the looks of the GTV.
The featured car looks nice for a grand. Colour is very 1990s!
Interesting observation. Off topic: there was an article in Autoexpress a while back looking at how colour preferences for cars have changed over the years. I seem to recall Green being the most popular colour for a new car in 1996 (white in 2015 I believe). I thought this odd, then thought back to cars of the 1990's. The E36 BMW was commonly seen in Morea(?) Green and Boston Green; the mk3 Golf in Dragon Green (esp GTI and VR6) and Jade? Green; plenty of Green A3's and A4's and it made sense.The featured car looks nice for a grand. Colour is very 1990s!
Oddball RS said:
The Fiat in 1998 20V format is a five pot not a four and was rated at 170Bhp not 154, not the most accurate of articles.
Actually, the non-VIS was 147HP and the VIS was 155. The later 2.4 in the Stilo was 170 but a lot less reliable than the 5-cylinder in the Coupe from what I've heard.Driven both in this spec, having owned the Coupe for 2 years it is definitely a 5-cylinder. A friend comparing it to old Audi's in sound, it used to set off car alarms in multi-storey carparks
Paid £700 for mine and sold it on for £840, that was a full service history car with tonnes of receipts though due the dreaded cambelt, which can cost £500 or less depending where you go. Some garages will tell you it's engine out but specialists will just angle it in the bay.
Loved mine though and one of the cars I regret selling though it's one I felt bad for putting miles on as it always felt more like a weekend car than a daily. Needed very minor body work issues sorting and probably a suspension refresh though I'd done the rear subframe and front arms - the latter a few times as they have a tendency to go quickly on our roads. I've never owned a car before though that random people would ask me about or compliment me on. Got thumbs up on motorways and pictures taken, was worth it just for that and mine wasn't even bright yellow
Pic of HET that'll hopefully show up...
The GTVs I've driven were a lot more cramped than the Fiat with the boot being taken up by the spare wheel and battery (I'm sure the battery was in the boot but I wait for someone to correct me), you also sit lower down (more sporty but means it's harder to park, etc) and the engine has a completely different character. Doesn't feel as torquey but does sound lovely when revved out. Both handle perfectly fine considering the underpinnings. I would be curious to try a Turbo or Busso though...
gavner81 said:
Interesting observation. Off topic: there was an article in Autoexpress a while back looking at how colour preferences for cars have changed over the years. I seem to recall Green being the most popular colour for a new car in 1996 (white in 2015 I believe). I thought this odd, then thought back to cars of the 1990's. The E36 BMW was commonly seen in Morea(?) Green and Boston Green; the mk3 Golf in Dragon Green (esp GTI and VR6) and Jade? Green; plenty of Green A3's and A4's and it made sense.
I really don't understand the current popularity of white cars. Especially when combined with dark privacy glass, it's the easiest way to look like a footballer's wife/drug dealer etc. Yuk.In styling terms, I think I would like the front end of the fiat combined with the rear end of the Alfa, could be an interesting cut and shut welding project.
My GTV...
...from a few years ago. Great to drive, spectacular to look at; almost as spectacular as the electronic failure. Nothing a new fuse box every three weeks didn't solve.
The biggest issue was the lack of head room. The 916 GTV was like my old Ducati 748 in that respect great for the first twenty miles, crippling if you go more than a hundred. Solved the head room issue with this...
...and where the pointless back seat is in the GTV I have a shelf, battery box away from the ice cold windscreen (on a frosty night the battery used to freeze) and a built in sub box.
I own a 16V Turbo Coupe restoration project but this...
...was my N/A 16V daily when I didn't want to wake my neighbors with my Uno.
Styling wise. I don't mind the Bangle angles of the Coupe but the big square Bangle grinder wheels are toffee soft, heavy and pain to balance tyres. Both the Coupe and the GTV/Spider have stood the test of time compared to other cars from the period and stand out. This is due to the competition being little more than a slightly squashed three door hatch back (would you pee on a Renault Magane Coupe is it were on fire even now?). This is the direction Alfa took with the 156 GT and 159 Brera. You can either for less than a good 916 GTV/Spider these days. They are marginally more reliable and lot more practical but lack the sense of occasion you get with a the older ones. A massive mistake by Alfa that nearly killed the mark but they recovered and are now bonkers again so all is right in the world.
Given the choice now (I own one of each, sort of) I would get a Fiat Coupe over a GTV. Headroom, electrical issues and GTV's are positively common (in numbers) compared to the Coupe. I wouldn't get a 20V N/A or 20V Turbo as I don't like having to lift the engine out to change the timing belts and that's a lump of engine up front that the 195 or 205 45 16's have to deal with. My old 20V turbo used to under steer and go through tyres without much encouragement. When my 16V Turbo is finished (Winter project) I'll probably be selling my Spider as I can't afford to run and insure them all.
P.S The Spider is safe from the salt grit now my Bravo is back on the road.
...from a few years ago. Great to drive, spectacular to look at; almost as spectacular as the electronic failure. Nothing a new fuse box every three weeks didn't solve.
The biggest issue was the lack of head room. The 916 GTV was like my old Ducati 748 in that respect great for the first twenty miles, crippling if you go more than a hundred. Solved the head room issue with this...
...and where the pointless back seat is in the GTV I have a shelf, battery box away from the ice cold windscreen (on a frosty night the battery used to freeze) and a built in sub box.
I own a 16V Turbo Coupe restoration project but this...
...was my N/A 16V daily when I didn't want to wake my neighbors with my Uno.
Styling wise. I don't mind the Bangle angles of the Coupe but the big square Bangle grinder wheels are toffee soft, heavy and pain to balance tyres. Both the Coupe and the GTV/Spider have stood the test of time compared to other cars from the period and stand out. This is due to the competition being little more than a slightly squashed three door hatch back (would you pee on a Renault Magane Coupe is it were on fire even now?). This is the direction Alfa took with the 156 GT and 159 Brera. You can either for less than a good 916 GTV/Spider these days. They are marginally more reliable and lot more practical but lack the sense of occasion you get with a the older ones. A massive mistake by Alfa that nearly killed the mark but they recovered and are now bonkers again so all is right in the world.
Given the choice now (I own one of each, sort of) I would get a Fiat Coupe over a GTV. Headroom, electrical issues and GTV's are positively common (in numbers) compared to the Coupe. I wouldn't get a 20V N/A or 20V Turbo as I don't like having to lift the engine out to change the timing belts and that's a lump of engine up front that the 195 or 205 45 16's have to deal with. My old 20V turbo used to under steer and go through tyres without much encouragement. When my 16V Turbo is finished (Winter project) I'll probably be selling my Spider as I can't afford to run and insure them all.
P.S The Spider is safe from the salt grit now my Bravo is back on the road.
Edited by Liquid Knight on Friday 9th December 14:15
As I understand it, the rear suspension in the GTV was quite a bit more sophisticated, whereas the Fiat had a better front end.
I only have experience of the V6 GTV and 20V Turbo Coupe, and the latter was appreciably quicker - a proper performance car even today.
The game has moved on quite a bit when it comes to handling though.
I only have experience of the V6 GTV and 20V Turbo Coupe, and the latter was appreciably quicker - a proper performance car even today.
The game has moved on quite a bit when it comes to handling though.
I am biased being a GTV owner but I agree with the earlier comment that the fiat looks very dated. I remember when they first came out and thinking they looked incredible whereas the GTV has been a slower burn for me looks wise. GTVs are great but you have to keep on top of them which means spending money. Had my V6 for nearly 5 years and it's been great fun and perfectly reliable as a 2nd car. ..... but I've spent far too much on it to get it to where it is !
J4CKO said:
T16OLE said:
Only for the brave.
I had a few good 156's that gave me false hope. My wallet was well and truly relived of its contents during my short and expensive GTV owenership.
Pretty though
It's a £1000 car, a front wheel drive hatch based one, if you can wield a spanner, how bad can it be ? looks like work already done like the cam belt, ok it's not a Micra but not all that scary.I had a few good 156's that gave me false hope. My wallet was well and truly relived of its contents during my short and expensive GTV owenership.
Pretty though
The big end went
Alarm & imobillisor issues
Syncro on 5th
Not really the discs & pads / shock absorber home mechanic type stuff.
I did like the car though, I just bought it at the wrong time in its life, sorted the issues then sold it.
I'd imagine it was a pretty rare colour combo Navy Blur with
blue seats. Love it know if it's still around
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