RE: PH Carpool: Toyota MR2 Roadster
Discussion
TheJimi said:
As is the case with such things – each to their own 
I disagree that the 1ZZ is a better engine than the 1.8 in the Mazda MX5 (mine was the Mk2, not VVC) yes, the 1ZZ was more economical, but beyond that, it has no redeeming features, imo.
Toyota dropped the ball big time by putting that engine into the MR2.
As I say, I do really like them, and I definitely agree that they are superb to drive – bang on the money there
For me, it was ultimately a combination of the lack of practicality and the lacklustre engine that killed it. Before anyone suggests I learn how to pack, I can and do pack “alpine style” and live out a rucksack for days at a time, so I know a thing or two about packing light. The car IS still inherently impractical though, and if I’m having to put up with that sort of impracticality, I want it to be offset by the overall experience of driving the car and I just couldn’t get that to stick for me.
On a separate note, I'm honestly not pissing on your new-car chips TRD, as I say, I trid awfully hard to like these things, and ultimately it's just my opinion.
Anyway, I do hope the MR2 sees you right?
I agree they aren't practical at all. I went into this with my eyes wide open - in fact, the car is literally for me, its namesake, a "Runabout".I disagree that the 1ZZ is a better engine than the 1.8 in the Mazda MX5 (mine was the Mk2, not VVC) yes, the 1ZZ was more economical, but beyond that, it has no redeeming features, imo.
Toyota dropped the ball big time by putting that engine into the MR2.
As I say, I do really like them, and I definitely agree that they are superb to drive – bang on the money there
For me, it was ultimately a combination of the lack of practicality and the lacklustre engine that killed it. Before anyone suggests I learn how to pack, I can and do pack “alpine style” and live out a rucksack for days at a time, so I know a thing or two about packing light. The car IS still inherently impractical though, and if I’m having to put up with that sort of impracticality, I want it to be offset by the overall experience of driving the car and I just couldn’t get that to stick for me.
On a separate note, I'm honestly not pissing on your new-car chips TRD, as I say, I trid awfully hard to like these things, and ultimately it's just my opinion.
Anyway, I do hope the MR2 sees you right
?You wont find me disagreeing that it's not the best engine out there in a car, but I do feel like there are very few downsides versus an MX5. It IS quite a coarse thing, and not particularly sonorous, but I guess the feeling of it being behind your head makes it more exciting to me.
I know you ain't pissing on my chips fella so thats fine - if we all liked the same thing, the world would be incredibly dull
giveitfish said:
The main problem I've found going to an Elise S1 from a car like an MR2 (Smart Roadster in my case, but bear with me) is that the S1 is so raw it kills any chance of touring 2-up. I've been all over in it, but long journeys are something to steel yourself for rather than relish and there is no way my OH will come with me. I've heard the same story from other Elise owning friends, it's a very selfish car.
Forget any ideas you have of driving to the Alps then arriving at the nice hotel restaurant for dinner with the OH....
Hmmm, not sure why you'd think that. Have you tried? My OH and I have driven S1 Elises and Smart Roadster Coupes (2 of each) to various bits of Europe including the Alps. We've camped, stayed in nice hotels and Gites and B&Bs and travel lodges. Forget any ideas you have of driving to the Alps then arriving at the nice hotel restaurant for dinner with the OH....
I used to do 330 miles up and down the M1 on Friday and Sunday nights, going home for the weekend. No problem. We've done Chamonix to Scotland via the chunnel in a de-catted Sport 160 with a Larini backbox and luggage for two for 2 weeks.
I'm not unique. Many, many folks on the various Lotus forums tour Europe in Elises, as couples and in convoys (or whatever the collective noun for a group of Chapman-worshiping trackday junkies is...). The car makes the journey as special as the destination.
Would I have been more comfortable in an MR2? No. The Elise has more luggage space and more passenger space.
Evil.soup said:
I never really had an issue with the power delivery of the MR2, I found it quite a well rounded engine, although, if I went back to one i do worry that it might feel a little weezy after a turbo engine.
The car isn't about the power though.
Yep that's what I'm finding. Its a nicely linear engine that doesn't sound too bad (not great, but not bad), likes to be revved and is a nice amount of power for the car.The car isn't about the power though.
I have a friend who used to own a 1ZZ Elise and he also thought the engine was a decent lump despite owning something much more mental now.
My last car had double the power, but in all honesty was less exciting to drive. I guess you can Turbo the 1ZZ easily enough if you want that rush of power.
TameRacingDriver said:
Yep that's what I'm finding. Its a nicely linear engine that doesn't sound too bad (not great, but not bad), likes to be revved and is a nice amount of power for the car.
I have a friend who used to own a 1ZZ Elise and he also thought the engine was a decent lump despite owning something much more mental now.
My last car had double the power, but in all honesty was less exciting to drive. I guess you can Turbo the 1ZZ easily enough if you want that rush of power.
I don't think it needs any extra power and to be honest, I think a turbo would upset the way it drives. The engine is perfect for getting the power down without spinning out of control, a turbo would throw the balance out of the window unless it had a tiny low lag turbo to keep power delivery smooth.I have a friend who used to own a 1ZZ Elise and he also thought the engine was a decent lump despite owning something much more mental now.
My last car had double the power, but in all honesty was less exciting to drive. I guess you can Turbo the 1ZZ easily enough if you want that rush of power.
I love the kick of a turbo but I don't think it would suit the MR2 dynamics.
Evil.soup said:
The issue, if you can call it that, is that the car has tons and tons of grip but when you push beyond that there is little warning to when it will let go.
You don't gradually notice that you are losing grip, it will just go. That said, once you know the car it becomes predictable and it is extreamly well balanced and controlable past the point of grip, so if you have the space to get it sideways and you are ready for it then it will make you look like a talented hero!
I now drive an AWD car and I love the gradual warning you get as you lose grip, but I do miss the mental attitude of the MR2.
Enticing. And the Mk3s are such a low price now too.You don't gradually notice that you are losing grip, it will just go. That said, once you know the car it becomes predictable and it is extreamly well balanced and controlable past the point of grip, so if you have the space to get it sideways and you are ready for it then it will make you look like a talented hero!
I now drive an AWD car and I love the gradual warning you get as you lose grip, but I do miss the mental attitude of the MR2.
The Mk1s were mostly docile but would rear twitch or oversteer if you abruptly backed off the accelerator on a wet corner.
The magazine claims that the Mk3 doesn't understeer is amazing. AFAIK most mass produced cars - even performance ones - are set up to understeer for safety reasons.
IMO the engine is perfectly adequate for the road and matches the car very well. If big BHP heroism is your thing then it won't hit the spot and you need to stir the gears properly but at no point with it have I ever felt lacking for power on the road. For me the MR2 isn't about thundering off towards the horizon and the extra weight of a more potent engine (and uprated parts to handle it) would spoil the fundamental sweetness of the design for little benefit.
As for the handling I certainly wouldn't describe it as 'knife edge' or particularly tricky, it just has to be approached in a very different manner to a front engine car. The weight distribution gives it a fundamentally different balance, lift off oversteer must be respected but power oversteer is rarely an issue. When correctly maintained (tyre pressures etc) I think they handle fantastically and it's certainly the most fun car to throw around corners I've ever owned or driven. For the price I paid (£1800 for a red 2003 facelift car with 76k) it's in a class of one.
As for the handling I certainly wouldn't describe it as 'knife edge' or particularly tricky, it just has to be approached in a very different manner to a front engine car. The weight distribution gives it a fundamentally different balance, lift off oversteer must be respected but power oversteer is rarely an issue. When correctly maintained (tyre pressures etc) I think they handle fantastically and it's certainly the most fun car to throw around corners I've ever owned or driven. For the price I paid (£1800 for a red 2003 facelift car with 76k) it's in a class of one.
sunsurfer said:
Evil.soup said:
The issue, if you can call it that, is that the car has tons and tons of grip but when you push beyond that there is little warning to when it will let go.
You don't gradually notice that you are losing grip, it will just go. That said, once you know the car it becomes predictable and it is extreamly well balanced and controlable past the point of grip, so if you have the space to get it sideways and you are ready for it then it will make you look like a talented hero!
I now drive an AWD car and I love the gradual warning you get as you lose grip, but I do miss the mental attitude of the MR2.
Enticing. And the Mk3s are such a low price now too.You don't gradually notice that you are losing grip, it will just go. That said, once you know the car it becomes predictable and it is extreamly well balanced and controlable past the point of grip, so if you have the space to get it sideways and you are ready for it then it will make you look like a talented hero!
I now drive an AWD car and I love the gradual warning you get as you lose grip, but I do miss the mental attitude of the MR2.
The Mk1s were mostly docile but would rear twitch or oversteer if you abruptly backed off the accelerator on a wet corner.
The magazine claims that the Mk3 doesn't understeer is amazing. AFAIK most mass produced cars - even performance ones - are set up to understeer for safety reasons.
Of all the cars I have driven, the handling ability and feel is in the same ball park as the Elise or Clio Cup 192 with cup upgrades.
I would even go as far as to say, in its own way, it handles better than the Impreza I currently own, but they are very very different of course. I would love to own both together one day.
I bought my MR2 in April of this year for a bit of weekend fun. I saw a few and bought on condition as I saw a fair amount of ropey ones.
Anyhow, it's on 140k so has been used as a daily in the past and still drives very nicely.
The previous owner was an enthusiast and did all his own work and it shows.
Handling is housefly incredible and has just the right amount of power. I was initially underwhelmed by the engine but the more I live with it the more I appreciate it. It's happy to rev but torquey enough to cruise. And when you do give it the full rev range it's surprisingly fast.
A great car IMO and very underated in the overall scheme of things.
Anyhow, it's on 140k so has been used as a daily in the past and still drives very nicely.
The previous owner was an enthusiast and did all his own work and it shows.
Handling is housefly incredible and has just the right amount of power. I was initially underwhelmed by the engine but the more I live with it the more I appreciate it. It's happy to rev but torquey enough to cruise. And when you do give it the full rev range it's surprisingly fast.
A great car IMO and very underated in the overall scheme of things.
I had a 2002 pre facelift. Sort of a love/hate relationship with it. Drove fantastically well although being mid engined it needed a little care if really pushing on. Very tyre sensitive too. Toyota missed a trick not fitting the 2zz
Mine had a few age related niggles too but nothing more major than a clutch and oxygen sensor. Cheap car to run really.
Really the lack of storage space (yes I know...) and constantly worrying about the engine self destructing became too much so i punted it on. I'm now in a NC mx5 which is imho probably better as a daily driver but maybe lacks some of the driving delicacy of the Toyota
Mine had a few age related niggles too but nothing more major than a clutch and oxygen sensor. Cheap car to run really.
Really the lack of storage space (yes I know...) and constantly worrying about the engine self destructing became too much so i punted it on. I'm now in a NC mx5 which is imho probably better as a daily driver but maybe lacks some of the driving delicacy of the Toyota
I've owned a number of MK2 turbos, one NA and a couple of MK3s. I really do miss all of them!
The mk3 for me is underpowered but yet I would still have another. I am about to embark on a 200 mile a day commute and I am actually seriously considering buying another for that as it's an excuse to have another. Heart is ruling the head there....
I should buy an old 320d, more power, more MPG, cruise etc. but the MR2 is still appearing in my mind!
The mk3 for me is underpowered but yet I would still have another. I am about to embark on a 200 mile a day commute and I am actually seriously considering buying another for that as it's an excuse to have another. Heart is ruling the head there....
I should buy an old 320d, more power, more MPG, cruise etc. but the MR2 is still appearing in my mind!
Fattyfat said:
I had a 2002 pre facelift. Sort of a love/hate relationship with it. Drove fantastically well although being mid engined it needed a little care if really pushing on. Very tyre sensitive too. Toyota missed a trick not fitting the 2zz
Mine had a few age related niggles too but nothing more major than a clutch and oxygen sensor. Cheap car to run really.
Really the lack of storage space (yes I know...) and constantly worrying about the engine self destructing became too much so i punted it on. I'm now in a NC mx5 which is imho probably better as a daily driver but maybe lacks some of the driving delicacy of the Toyota
Having come from an NC MX-5 I completely agree with you, the MX-5 is a better daily driver, but I think the MR2 is a better sports car.Mine had a few age related niggles too but nothing more major than a clutch and oxygen sensor. Cheap car to run really.
Really the lack of storage space (yes I know...) and constantly worrying about the engine self destructing became too much so i punted it on. I'm now in a NC mx5 which is imho probably better as a daily driver but maybe lacks some of the driving delicacy of the Toyota
MrC986 said:
Craikeybaby always has a smile on his face on the various convoys to PHSS - he might be down on power, but I'll always be the has some of the greatest fun on the way to wherever we are heading & it's usually with the roof down too. A great car for the £s & a well written viewpoint.
Thanks Chris - I can just about keep up on the twisty roads, but struggle on the motorway.TameRacingDriver said:
Yep that's what I'm finding. Its a nicely linear engine that doesn't sound too bad (not great, but not bad), likes to be revved and is a nice amount of power for the car.
I have a friend who used to own a 1ZZ Elise and he also thought the engine was a decent lump despite owning something much more mental now.
My last car had double the power, but in all honesty was less exciting to drive. I guess you can Turbo the 1ZZ easily enough if you want that rush of power.
You used to see the occasional TTE turbo pop up for sale but I haven't seen one in the ads lately. They were about 180bhp ish iircI have a friend who used to own a 1ZZ Elise and he also thought the engine was a decent lump despite owning something much more mental now.
My last car had double the power, but in all honesty was less exciting to drive. I guess you can Turbo the 1ZZ easily enough if you want that rush of power.
paul1087 said:
Craikeybaby said:
I don't like the power delivery on the 2ZZ. The extra power would be nice, I'm sure the MR2 could handle it, but I wouldn't want to change how it drives.
you know its basically drives like a 1zz with a bit more umph below lift .
They will of course ignore this.... V10Ace said:
paul1087 said:
Craikeybaby said:
I don't like the power delivery on the 2ZZ. The extra power would be nice, I'm sure the MR2 could handle it, but I wouldn't want to change how it drives.
you know its basically drives like a 1zz with a bit more umph below lift . They will of course ignore this.... An excellent positive review on a much-overlooked car. Pity road testers at the time of its launch didn't actually 'use' it as intended then we would not have had the cliché negative observations about lack of luggage space, proven to be untrue. So many sneered at the badge as they still do.
The colour which is so 'on trend' makes for a class act too, with just a whiff of Boxster, but at least you can be sure other drivers will let you out at junctions & not think you're a flash rich berk.
The colour which is so 'on trend' makes for a class act too, with just a whiff of Boxster, but at least you can be sure other drivers will let you out at junctions & not think you're a flash rich berk.
Other thing to mention is the body panels all bolt on if you prang it and nowhere near as rusty as mx5s other than the rear subframe issue as mentioned. If you get one with a solid subframe that's not smoky or oil burning badly you'll have lots of cheap fun. 150 quid tops for a full set of discs/ pads /service kit if you diy!
Craikeybaby said:
The handling - it is surprisingly different to the MX-5, the limit is higher, but more of a knife edge. It is clinical, rather than playful, like the Mazda
^^^TrueAnd that is why I prefer the MX5 as a road car.
I do have an MR2 Track car but that was because I can't resist a bargain and it has a V6 transplant.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff