RE: PH 2016 - Our favourite cars and bikes
Discussion
Usual German bias, the motoring press gets more and more obsessed with German machinery each year. And yes, I include Ford of Europe in the german category these days.
No mention for the Lotus Evora/Exige Sport editions, the Alfa Guilia, Honda NSX, these are just a few of the brilliant "non german" cars that have come out and generally been raved about this year....
No mention for the Lotus Evora/Exige Sport editions, the Alfa Guilia, Honda NSX, these are just a few of the brilliant "non german" cars that have come out and generally been raved about this year....
ogrodz said:
VanquishRider said:
HeMightBeBanned said:
SevenR said:
ogrodz said:
The RS4 simply requires a change down of gear as the engine slows the car down - I use the brakes to drive around the bends .
Eh? I'm confused..
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I never understand why you'd spec a car for its next owner? I don't need sat nav and don't like leather. And I'd rather have a manual almost anything than an automatic Cayman.I'd rather shag a woman I want. Rather than trying to get one you'd be able to move on easier in the future
ogrodz said:
Thanks for this mini-review. Very helpful. Particularly the comment about "run on". I know exactly what you mean. We have an RS4 (B7) and a Polo (2015). The latter has "run on" which means that every time I approach lights or a junction I am on the brakes. The RS4 simply requires a change down of gear as the engine slows the car down - I use the brakes to drive around the bends . I can't stand "run on" - but it seems that car manufacturers are building this in to all modern cars now - I assume to save fuel?? It certainly requires a different style of driving and explains why you see brake lights so frequently applied these days. I wonder how many more times you will need to change the pads and discs on a 718 compared to the 981?
Drove the sister-in-law's new Passat the other day (coming from my 2010 Golf daily). I disliked it for many reasons, primarily this stupid feature. The car automatically selects neutral when you come off the throttle. I'm sure it saves a couple of grams of CO2 in the tests, but it was absolutely horrible. I think you'd actually fail your driving test if you did this in a manual.Edited by HardtopManual on Friday 23 December 13:40
em177 said:
I never understand why you'd spec a car for its next owner? I don't need sat nav and don't like leather. And I'd rather have a manual almost anything than an automatic Cayman.
I'd rather shag a woman I want. Rather than trying to get one you'd be able to move on easier in the future
Correct OPC's love it when you load a car up with options. $$$'s. I'd rather shag a woman I want. Rather than trying to get one you'd be able to move on easier in the future
Leather is a pain in the ass, cold in winter, too hot in summer, the opposite of what you want, plus they're slippery when actually driving the car. The suede inserts in the standard leatherette porsche seats are great, plus no moo cows get killed in their manufacture.
SevenR said:
ogrodz said:
VanquishRider said:
HeMightBeBanned said:
SevenR said:
ogrodz said:
The RS4 simply requires a change down of gear as the engine slows the car down - I use the brakes to drive around the bends .
Eh? I'm confused..'When you hit the point where you begin to turn the steering wheel, the braking should almost be complete and you’ll be pulling your foot off the pedal as you turn. You want to turn the wheel and point towards the ‘apex’ of the corner (that’s the narrowest part of the curve). There’ll be a short bit of time between turning and hitting the apex – during this time Max recommends applying no accelerator and no brake. You just glide through the tightest bit of the corner and then, as you come out of it, start to hit the gas and open up the steering wheel to get straight again.'
Nobody drives round a corner on the brakes. Unless you drive an Audi!!! Because they hang the engine out so far over the front axle you need to loosen the back axle by trail braking into a corner. In the vain hope you can encourage the front axle to bite and turn in. Oh why do they persist with a longitudinal FWD system. Almost as bad as Porsche. But physics will mean that the polar moment of inertia is still nowhere near where it should be, so turn in will always be crap.
Try understanding how ice skaters spin faster. Then you might just understand.
VanquishRider said:
Just in case you still don't understand.
'When you hit the point where you begin to turn the steering wheel, the braking should almost be complete and you’ll be pulling your foot off the pedal as you turn. You want to turn the wheel and point towards the ‘apex’ of the corner (that’s the narrowest part of the curve). There’ll be a short bit of time between turning and hitting the apex – during this time Max recommends applying no accelerator and no brake. You just glide through the tightest bit of the corner and then, as you come out of it, start to hit the gas and open up the steering wheel to get straight again.'
Nobody drives round a corner on the brakes. Unless you drive an Audi!!! Because they hang the engine out so far over the front axle you need to loosen the back axle by trail braking into a corner. In the vain hope you can encourage the front axle to bite and turn in. Oh why do they persist with a longitudinal FWD system. Almost as bad as Porsche. But physics will mean that the polar moment of inertia is still nowhere near where it should be, so turn in will always be crap.
Try understanding how ice skaters spin faster. Then you might just understand.
Trail braking is common among 911 drivers on track but you don't need it on the road - and not every corner on track. But I learned track driving from a Finn who left foot braked around everything and kept his right buried 'When you hit the point where you begin to turn the steering wheel, the braking should almost be complete and you’ll be pulling your foot off the pedal as you turn. You want to turn the wheel and point towards the ‘apex’ of the corner (that’s the narrowest part of the curve). There’ll be a short bit of time between turning and hitting the apex – during this time Max recommends applying no accelerator and no brake. You just glide through the tightest bit of the corner and then, as you come out of it, start to hit the gas and open up the steering wheel to get straight again.'
Nobody drives round a corner on the brakes. Unless you drive an Audi!!! Because they hang the engine out so far over the front axle you need to loosen the back axle by trail braking into a corner. In the vain hope you can encourage the front axle to bite and turn in. Oh why do they persist with a longitudinal FWD system. Almost as bad as Porsche. But physics will mean that the polar moment of inertia is still nowhere near where it should be, so turn in will always be crap.
Try understanding how ice skaters spin faster. Then you might just understand.
Pentti #rip
All told, 2016 has been a pretty cr*p year for new cars.
A Cayman that looks and drives the same as the previous 10 models but with worse engines... A mildly quick BMW that slides all over the place in the wet and is undrivable in even light snow... A Focus RS that is slower than most of its main rivals and looks uglier than the previous model...
Roll on 2017. Let's see if the Renault Alpine, Tesla 3, or BMW M5 switchable AWD can jazz things up a bit.
A Cayman that looks and drives the same as the previous 10 models but with worse engines... A mildly quick BMW that slides all over the place in the wet and is undrivable in even light snow... A Focus RS that is slower than most of its main rivals and looks uglier than the previous model...
Roll on 2017. Let's see if the Renault Alpine, Tesla 3, or BMW M5 switchable AWD can jazz things up a bit.
Can't say I'm too impressed by Lamborghini man but advice is for track. Going from 0 to 10 on the brakes instantly risks lock up so think ahead and leave a little pause before planting the hoof fully. Trail braking is fine and we should all know how to do this, as who hasn't accidentally gone into a corner a little hot on the road 😬. And you can combine the throttle you normally use to balance the car in a corner with some light brake (at the same time) on a hill if things start to get tight, better than lifting off!
Audi driver... These people scare the hell out of me. Can I respectfully suggest that you read this article - http://www.timetravelturtle.com/2012/05/drive-fast... - you might learn something to improve your driving!Yes, but you don't use the brakes to drive round a bend as you've put it. You use the brakes to slow the car to the point of transition to power on. Nothing new there. And there's a big difference from fast road driving to fast track driving.Just in case you still don't understand.
'When you hit the point where you begin to turn the steering wheel, the braking should almost be complete and you’ll be pulling your foot off the pedal as you turn. You want to turn the wheel and point towards the ‘apex’ of the corner (that’s the narrowest part of the curve). There’ll be a short bit of time between turning and hitting the apex – during this time Max recommends applying no accelerator and no brake. You just glide through the tightest bit of the corner and then, as you come out of it, start to hit the gas and open up the steering wheel to get straight again.'
Nobody drives round a corner on the brakes. Unless you drive an Audi!!! Because they hang the engine out so far over the front axle you need to loosen the back axle by trail braking into a corner. In the vain hope you can encourage the front axle to bite and turn in. Oh why do they persist with a longitudinal FWD system. Almost as bad as Porsche. But physics will mean that the polar moment of inertia is still nowhere near where it should be, so turn in will always be crap.
Try understanding how ice skaters spin faster. Then you might just understand.
VanquishRider said:
SevenR said:
ogrodz said:
VanquishRider said:
HeMightBeBanned said:
SevenR said:
ogrodz said:
The RS4 simply requires a change down of gear as the engine slows the car down - I use the brakes to drive around the bends .
Eh? I'm confused..'When you hit the point where you begin to turn the steering wheel, the braking should almost be complete and you’ll be pulling your foot off the pedal as you turn. You want to turn the wheel and point towards the ‘apex’ of the corner (that’s the narrowest part of the curve). There’ll be a short bit of time between turning and hitting the apex – during this time Max recommends applying no accelerator and no brake. You just glide through the tightest bit of the corner and then, as you come out of it, start to hit the gas and open up the steering wheel to get straight again.'
Nobody drives round a corner on the brakes. Unless you drive an Audi!!! Because they hang the engine out so far over the front axle you need to loosen the back axle by trail braking into a corner. In the vain hope you can encourage the front axle to bite and turn in. Oh why do they persist with a longitudinal FWD system. Almost as bad as Porsche. But physics will mean that the polar moment of inertia is still nowhere near where it should be, so turn in will always be crap.
Try understanding how ice skaters spin faster. Then you might just understand.
greenarrow said:
Usual German bias, the motoring press gets more and more obsessed with German machinery each year. And yes, I include Ford of Europe in the german category these days.
No mention for the Lotus Evora/Exige Sport editions, the Alfa Guilia, Honda NSX, these are just a few of the brilliant "non german" cars that have come out and generally been raved about this year....
Lotus is impractical (unlike Boxster/Cayman) and less lux for more money, NSX is ugly hybrid, Alfa is a question mark in terms of long(er)-term build quality.No mention for the Lotus Evora/Exige Sport editions, the Alfa Guilia, Honda NSX, these are just a few of the brilliant "non german" cars that have come out and generally been raved about this year....
ZX10R NIN said:
I was lucky enough to have a 1299 Ducati Superleggera for a long weekend & I have to say despite having an MV F4 the difference was huge as was the grin on my face so that's my bike of the year.
Rode 1299S a few times. That bike has character for sure. Doesn`l like to go slow(ish) at all and pain in the ass (literally) in any type of traffic. For test ride - super, owning - forgetit. Getting stuck in traffic on an alpine road in the summer (actually, everything above 10C) on a Panigale is hell.Don`t know about MV F4, never tried one, the only thing I know is they are pretty heavy at 220+kg wet. Rode F3 800, great piece of machinery, again, like Duc, charismatic and beautiful,... except for juddering clutch, totally useless mirrors (with built-in turn signals to boot) and cramped and ugly dash.
My favourite is RSV4, really sweet, turns as sharp as Daytona 675 I have...except unsure about build quality, reading forums it seems to be 50/50, you may get a gem or you may get a lemon whose engine will leak right from the start or whose electronics will acquire its own life, and it will take months to fix the issues, if they ever get fixed.
Italians, know how to grab your heart, but always put a fly in the honey.
Ho Lee Kau said:
ZX10R NIN said:
I was lucky enough to have a 1299 Ducati Superleggera for a long weekend & I have to say despite having an MV F4 the difference was huge as was the grin on my face so that's my bike of the year.
Rode 1299S a few times. That bike has character for sure. Doesn`l like to go slow(ish) at all and pain in the ass (literally) in any type of traffic. For test ride - super, owning - forgetit. Getting stuck in traffic on an alpine road in the summer (actually, everything above 10C) on a Panigale is hell.Don`t know about MV F4, never tried one, the only thing I know is they are pretty heavy at 220+kg wet. Rode F3 800, great piece of machinery, again, like Duc, charismatic and beautiful,... except for juddering clutch, totally useless mirrors (with built-in turn signals to boot) and cramped and ugly dash.
My favourite is RSV4, really sweet, turns as sharp as Daytona 675 I have...except unsure about build quality, reading forums it seems to be 50/50, you may get a gem or you may get a lemon whose engine will leak right from the start or whose electronics will acquire its own life, and it will take months to fix the issues, if they ever get fixed.
Italians, know how to grab your heart, but always put a fly in the honey.
I've also ridden a 1299s, great bikes also.
carspath said:
I am afraid that Dan Trent's statements about the 718S are only partially true
Of course it has a fantastic chassis.
However the sound issue is only one of a number of problems with this new turbo-charged engine
Much more important , is the turbo lag
To suggest that it is lag -free , by saying that it has an inertia-free throttle response , is simply untrue
the 718S , which I tested quite extensively before plumping for one of the very last new 981S cars on sale in the UK , also has what I call ''run on '', by which I mean that on lifting off the accelerator pedal , the car continues to run on , rather than to immediately start to decelerate
I found this very disconcerting
The 6 cylinder normally aspirated engine also send a different vibration pattern into the cockpit, compared to the 4 cylinder tubro engine , and this is discernable to the driver....which is another reason for me to favour the 981S
No one is saying that the 718S is a bad car , far from it , but what it lacks is significant subjective improvements over its predecessor , and so cannot be a 2016 favourite FOR ME
And this is coming from someone who adored his 4 cylinder turbo-charged Porsche for 14 years (944 turbo )
Well said.Of course it has a fantastic chassis.
However the sound issue is only one of a number of problems with this new turbo-charged engine
Much more important , is the turbo lag
To suggest that it is lag -free , by saying that it has an inertia-free throttle response , is simply untrue
the 718S , which I tested quite extensively before plumping for one of the very last new 981S cars on sale in the UK , also has what I call ''run on '', by which I mean that on lifting off the accelerator pedal , the car continues to run on , rather than to immediately start to decelerate
I found this very disconcerting
The 6 cylinder normally aspirated engine also send a different vibration pattern into the cockpit, compared to the 4 cylinder tubro engine , and this is discernable to the driver....which is another reason for me to favour the 981S
No one is saying that the 718S is a bad car , far from it , but what it lacks is significant subjective improvements over its predecessor , and so cannot be a 2016 favourite FOR ME
And this is coming from someone who adored his 4 cylinder turbo-charged Porsche for 14 years (944 turbo )
I went for 981 Boxster S, with sport suspension. Since it is daily driver most of the time, and the girl is also using it, it`s with PDK. Yes, manual would be more fun, but I have manual 911 as well.
Test drove 718 Boxster, handles well even on basic suspension, acceleration is just fine, but the engine has no character, makes no drama. 3.4L is just fabulous for drama and build-up of power. The future Boxsters/Caymans are dead for me unless they go back to flat six, no matter how well they drive, especially that most of the time one does not drive these cars "race-track-like".
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