Everyday cars which are already starting to disappear
Discussion
Car_Nut said:
LARGE PEOPLE CARRIERS
Renault Espace/Grand Espace: I find it sad that a car that was as trend-setting as the original Renault Espace is now all but extinct in the UK. Despite my general disinterest in people carriers as a type, if there is one car that I could go back a few years, and, cheaply, save another example for posterity it would be this. But this survey starts another couple of generations down the line, and only captures the end of the Espace/Grand Espace III at that. The Espace III is a model that is heading for oblivion rapidly, with the number of survivors diving almost as rapidly as those of the Kia Sedona. However, this is the good news as the Espace/Grand Espace IV has an even worse survival rate, which is not only 3.5% worse than that of the Espace III, but is also worse than that of Kia Sedonas of equivalent age, albeit on a slightly less severe rate of decline. It is touch and go whether the Espace IV will manage to get above the Sedona before both become extinct. The only saving grace for either in the battle for the wooden spoon is that on the 2003 snapshot that we took, it looks as is the Kia Carens might actually be worse, but we will get to that model in due course… The survival rate of the Espace IV appears entirely normal until 2006 cars (nine years old at the time of the survey), whereafter, the survival rate goes into freefall, dropping at absolute rates of 14.0%, 13.3% and 11.4%, over the preceding three years, which equates to 15.9%, 17.9%, and 18.7% respectively of the surviving stock in each year. Accordingly, Espace IVs are heading towards extinction at an accelerating rate. The $64k question, is are post-2006 Espaces more durable, or is that, as their value declines people start give up on a struggle to keep them roadworthy after their ninth birthdays? The 2016 data should tell us, when it is released in April. The survival rate of 2001 Espaces and Grand Espaces at the end of 2015 was 28.3%.
Your comments and research appreciated and shared to the https://www.facebook.com/groups/1890890014496112 Renault Matra Espace phase 1, 2 and 3 1984>2002 International Owners Club which I admin.Renault Espace/Grand Espace: I find it sad that a car that was as trend-setting as the original Renault Espace is now all but extinct in the UK. Despite my general disinterest in people carriers as a type, if there is one car that I could go back a few years, and, cheaply, save another example for posterity it would be this. But this survey starts another couple of generations down the line, and only captures the end of the Espace/Grand Espace III at that. The Espace III is a model that is heading for oblivion rapidly, with the number of survivors diving almost as rapidly as those of the Kia Sedona. However, this is the good news as the Espace/Grand Espace IV has an even worse survival rate, which is not only 3.5% worse than that of the Espace III, but is also worse than that of Kia Sedonas of equivalent age, albeit on a slightly less severe rate of decline. It is touch and go whether the Espace IV will manage to get above the Sedona before both become extinct. The only saving grace for either in the battle for the wooden spoon is that on the 2003 snapshot that we took, it looks as is the Kia Carens might actually be worse, but we will get to that model in due course… The survival rate of the Espace IV appears entirely normal until 2006 cars (nine years old at the time of the survey), whereafter, the survival rate goes into freefall, dropping at absolute rates of 14.0%, 13.3% and 11.4%, over the preceding three years, which equates to 15.9%, 17.9%, and 18.7% respectively of the surviving stock in each year. Accordingly, Espace IVs are heading towards extinction at an accelerating rate. The $64k question, is are post-2006 Espaces more durable, or is that, as their value declines people start give up on a struggle to keep them roadworthy after their ninth birthdays? The 2016 data should tell us, when it is released in April. The survival rate of 2001 Espaces and Grand Espaces at the end of 2015 was 28.3%.
Carnut, consider yourself annointed King of PH, Lord of Beardage.
All Hail!
Long Live!
King Carnut....King Canute...coinkydink
BritishBlitz87 said:
I must say the early Insignias seem to be thinning out quite alarmingly in recent years.
As a car lover drawn into classic car enthusiasm by bland turn-of-the-millenium styling, this was the first ordinary new car I looked at and thought "That actually looks really good, and not just for a modern car" I clearly remember loving all the chrome trim and the fastback styling.
It's a shame so many were ordered in grey on grey office-drone spec, the other day I saw a top of the line V6 one in a sort of dark purple with a cream wood'n'leather interior and it looked gorgeous.
I never, ever saw one on the roads that looked half as good as that but I always thought it was a well styled car, and I also like the replacement model that you very occasionally see. I only got to drive rental spec cars with scratchy seats and either the truly abysmal 1.8 NASP engine or the crude but effective diesel, but through the mediocrity of those models I could see there was a good car underneath and with a decent color scheme, a good trim leven, fitted with a proper engine I'm sure it was very nice. The interior trim was certainly far more robust and less cheap feeling than in a Mondeo too.As a car lover drawn into classic car enthusiasm by bland turn-of-the-millenium styling, this was the first ordinary new car I looked at and thought "That actually looks really good, and not just for a modern car" I clearly remember loving all the chrome trim and the fastback styling.
It's a shame so many were ordered in grey on grey office-drone spec, the other day I saw a top of the line V6 one in a sort of dark purple with a cream wood'n'leather interior and it looked gorgeous.
Conspicuous by their absence.
Vauxhall Vectra of any age now.
Mondeo 2.
VW Bora.
BMW E39.
Not saying they have disappeared, just not seeing them anymore yet strangely some cars seem to be ubiquitous even at advanced age, early R series Mini, S type Jags & early L322 Range Rovers despite these cars supposed unreliability!
Vauxhall Vectra of any age now.
Mondeo 2.
VW Bora.
BMW E39.
Not saying they have disappeared, just not seeing them anymore yet strangely some cars seem to be ubiquitous even at advanced age, early R series Mini, S type Jags & early L322 Range Rovers despite these cars supposed unreliability!
stickleback123 said:
BritishBlitz87 said:
I must say the early Insignias seem to be thinning out quite alarmingly in recent years.
As a car lover drawn into classic car enthusiasm by bland turn-of-the-millenium styling, this was the first ordinary new car I looked at and thought "That actually looks really good, and not just for a modern car" I clearly remember loving all the chrome trim and the fastback styling.
It's a shame so many were ordered in grey on grey office-drone spec, the other day I saw a top of the line V6 one in a sort of dark purple with a cream wood'n'leather interior and it looked gorgeous.
I never, ever saw one on the roads that looked half as good as that but I always thought it was a well styled car, and I also like the replacement model that you very occasionally see. I only got to drive rental spec cars with scratchy seats and either the truly abysmal 1.8 NASP engine or the crude but effective diesel, but through the mediocrity of those models I could see there was a good car underneath and with a decent color scheme, a good trim leven, fitted with a proper engine I'm sure it was very nice. The interior trim was certainly far more robust and less cheap feeling than in a Mondeo too.As a car lover drawn into classic car enthusiasm by bland turn-of-the-millenium styling, this was the first ordinary new car I looked at and thought "That actually looks really good, and not just for a modern car" I clearly remember loving all the chrome trim and the fastback styling.
It's a shame so many were ordered in grey on grey office-drone spec, the other day I saw a top of the line V6 one in a sort of dark purple with a cream wood'n'leather interior and it looked gorgeous.
Triumph Man said:
As much as I agree with regards the car looking quite good, loads of them have fallen into the hands of chavs who don't care about them and run them into the ground.
Yes these and the weird headlighted Vectra that came before it are the chariot of choice for the greasy looking, slug moustache sporting, tracksuit wearing, vape smoking skip rat as far as I can tell.stickleback123 said:
Triumph Man said:
As much as I agree with regards the car looking quite good, loads of them have fallen into the hands of chavs who don't care about them and run them into the ground.
Yes these and the weird headlighted Vectra that came before it are the chariot of choice for the greasy looking, slug moustache sporting, tracksuit wearing, vape smoking skip rat as far as I can tell.Just found this - one of only two 4 door, V6 versions (that isn't the VXR) on AutoTrader. I can't imagine that many of these were sold in the first place! Chav and Chavette wouldn't like this - not a hatchback, not a diesel, and it has leather and wood.
Eyersey1234 said:
I don't think Ford has ever directly replaced the Scorpio, the closest there is now is a Vignale spec Mondeo, which come to think of it is probably about the same size
As you note, the size of a current Mondeo is similar to an old Scorpio.Vauxhall and Ford followed the same principle of replacing two classes of car with one around the early 2000s... Omega plus Vectra B were replaced with Vectra C, Mondeo MK1 and Scorpio were replaced with Mondeo MK2. Albeit there was a gap, but I recall at the time this was the strategy they put into their press releases.
So, big RWD saloon + medium sized FWD saloon -> big FWD saloon.
20 year + old fords definitely. Mostly dust by now I’d have thought. Saw an old period picture of my town the other day and it featured a street with two cars on it; a Seirra estate and a Volvo 740 estate. I still see a fair few old Swedes.. Also
Mk1 Renault Laguna
Alfa Romeo 156
Mazda 323
Honda Prelude
Fiat Brava (use to be everywhere)
Chrysler PT cruiser (thank god)
Nissan Almera
Toyota Previa
Conversely there are also some where many still remain:
Rover 75
Any BMW around late 90’s early 00’s
L322
Early 00’s Astra’s
Peugeot 206
Volvos
Mk4 golf
Passat B5.5
Audi A2
Mk1 Renault Laguna
Alfa Romeo 156
Mazda 323
Honda Prelude
Fiat Brava (use to be everywhere)
Chrysler PT cruiser (thank god)
Nissan Almera
Toyota Previa
Conversely there are also some where many still remain:
Rover 75
Any BMW around late 90’s early 00’s
L322
Early 00’s Astra’s
Peugeot 206
Volvos
Mk4 golf
Passat B5.5
Audi A2
Triumph Man said:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202009163...
Just found this - one of only two 4 door, V6 versions (that isn't the VXR) on AutoTrader. I can't imagine that many of these were sold in the first place! Chav and Chavette wouldn't like this - not a hatchback, not a diesel, and it has leather and wood.
That's a bit of a unicorn! Still, I can't imagine ever spending £5,500 on a 12 year old Insignia!Just found this - one of only two 4 door, V6 versions (that isn't the VXR) on AutoTrader. I can't imagine that many of these were sold in the first place! Chav and Chavette wouldn't like this - not a hatchback, not a diesel, and it has leather and wood.
stickleback123 said:
Triumph Man said:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202009163...
Just found this - one of only two 4 door, V6 versions (that isn't the VXR) on AutoTrader. I can't imagine that many of these were sold in the first place! Chav and Chavette wouldn't like this - not a hatchback, not a diesel, and it has leather and wood.
That's a bit of a unicorn! Still, I can't imagine ever spending £5,500 on a 12 year old Insignia!Just found this - one of only two 4 door, V6 versions (that isn't the VXR) on AutoTrader. I can't imagine that many of these were sold in the first place! Chav and Chavette wouldn't like this - not a hatchback, not a diesel, and it has leather and wood.
stickleback123 said:
The Cougar wasn't much of a looker, it was always very awkward and ungainly from the side in particular, but they were fantastic to drive as a V6 manual. One of the best engine/induction notes I've heard too, all proper noise rather than tiresome and childish exhaust farts. That Duratec is one of the few really good V6 engines ever, as good as the Busso IMHO (but not as pretty).
I really enjoyed the test drive I had on a Cougar. I ended up buying a Mondeo ST24 instead though(I've also had a V6 Ghia X). I'm a big fan of that engine too. 
I often wonder about revisiting a Cougar, and I regret choosing the Mondeo over it to be fair. The Cougar was a flop though according to the motoring press.
bristolracer said:
You have all got older folks.
Have a look at your nominations and see how many of them are 20 years old now.
In 1970 there weren't many 1950s cars on the road
In 1980 there weren't many 1960s cars on the road
In 1990....you get my drift
T'was always thus
Arguably there are more 2000s cars on the road now than there were 1980s cars in 2000. Stuff like the Focus MK1, VW Golf Mk4 is actually still fairly commonplace. From what I can remember by the mid 1990s, the MK5 1980s Ford Cortina was nearly extinct. The old un's disappeared pretty quickly thanks to the tin-worm, which whilst still an issue aint have as bad as it was. My father in law had a Ford Cortina Mk3 company car in the mid 1970s that apparently started rusting before the end of its 3 year tenure as his company car.......Have a look at your nominations and see how many of them are 20 years old now.
In 1970 there weren't many 1950s cars on the road
In 1980 there weren't many 1960s cars on the road
In 1990....you get my drift
T'was always thus
dandam said:
There was an article in Practical Classics not long ago about lots of cars not being saved and disappearing - montego's, mk1 mondeo's, etc. I guess it is easy to let the less glamorous cars disappear (my first choice of classic is unlikely to be an N plate mondeo 1.8LX) while M3's, etc of a similar age will be looked after.
Thank god there are no more Montego's about, even as a passenger I felt sea sick in them, absolute one of the worst cars even built in the UK...!e600 said:
A car that went missing a long time ago was the Ford Scorpio. Didn’t seem to be around very long and haven’t seen one for many years.
At one time ford U.K. had a car in every sector with their executive range catered for by Zephyr, Zodiac, Granada, Scorpio.
I don’t know what’s meant to represent Ford in that slot today
The Ford Scorpio was to replace the European Granada though still badged as a Granada in the UK and Ireland and it was the Ford Mondeo that was the original replacement.At one time ford U.K. had a car in every sector with their executive range catered for by Zephyr, Zodiac, Granada, Scorpio.
I don’t know what’s meant to represent Ford in that slot today
Stick Legs said:
Conspicuous by their absence.
Vauxhall Vectra of any age now.
Mondeo 2.
VW Bora.
BMW E39.
Not saying they have disappeared, just not seeing them anymore yet strangely some cars seem to be ubiquitous even at advanced age, early R series Mini, S type Jags & early L322 Range Rovers despite these cars supposed unreliability!
I might be stating the obvious here, but I think only high-performance or ‘special’ variants, once over a certain age, will survive. For example, E39 BMW’s are pretty rare these days (except for the M5 model, which I actually see quite a few of.)Vauxhall Vectra of any age now.
Mondeo 2.
VW Bora.
BMW E39.
Not saying they have disappeared, just not seeing them anymore yet strangely some cars seem to be ubiquitous even at advanced age, early R series Mini, S type Jags & early L322 Range Rovers despite these cars supposed unreliability!
Sat behind a boggo Citroen ZX today, I can't remember the last time I saw one.
Looking at it from behind, the wheels looked very thin and so far away from the outer arches, I was reminded of Commer Vans.
Typically there are no googleable pictures square on to the rear to show what I saw.
Looking at it from behind, the wheels looked very thin and so far away from the outer arches, I was reminded of Commer Vans.
Typically there are no googleable pictures square on to the rear to show what I saw.
greenarrow said:
bristolracer said:
You have all got older folks.
Have a look at your nominations and see how many of them are 20 years old now.
In 1970 there weren't many 1950s cars on the road
In 1980 there weren't many 1960s cars on the road
In 1990....you get my drift
T'was always thus
Arguably there are more 2000s cars on the road now than there were 1980s cars in 2000. Stuff like the Focus MK1, VW Golf Mk4 is actually still fairly commonplace. From what I can remember by the mid 1990s, the MK5 1980s Ford Cortina was nearly extinct. The old un's disappeared pretty quickly thanks to the tin-worm, which whilst still an issue aint have as bad as it was. My father in law had a Ford Cortina Mk3 company car in the mid 1970s that apparently started rusting before the end of its 3 year tenure as his company car.......Have a look at your nominations and see how many of them are 20 years old now.
In 1970 there weren't many 1950s cars on the road
In 1980 there weren't many 1960s cars on the road
In 1990....you get my drift
T'was always thus
My 1970s car were getting rusty before the 80s began.
But the 2002 BMW E46 I sold in 2018 was still pretty solid as is my current 2005 BMW E90, and there still seem to be plenty of them around.
I don't see many older Mondeos these days, but that's probably because not so many got sold in the 2000s. I still see plenty of older Focuses (Foci?) though!
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