Guy is dying. Car is leased. What are the options?

Guy is dying. Car is leased. What are the options?

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JeS10

Original Poster:

375 posts

165 months

Saturday 7th January 2017
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So a family friend is dying. Cancer and it's terminal. He might have a few months. He leases his car from VW financial services. It's an Audi S1 but he pays over £400 p/m so I'm guessing he's got a huge mileage on it or something. Anyway, to pay off the lease they're wanting £7000. I'm guessing if he dies then this is just claimed from his estate. I know the lease could go into another name, but it's pretty steep on the monthlies for what it is. Presumably if they just cancelled the direct debit, the car would be repossessed and they'd chase up the £7000?

I'm not really sure what I'm asking, but the daughter of this guy is pretty confused about to do with his car.

Matt UK

17,649 posts

199 months

Saturday 7th January 2017
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Best thing to do would be to phone the finance company, explain the situation, understand all the options. Then take it from there.

It's a desirable car, so depending how much is outstanding, maybe it can be sold cover the outstanding debt that way.

Appreciate though that for the family, this is a difficult time. Good on you fir trying to help.

hora

37,005 posts

210 months

Saturday 7th January 2017
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Do you have access to the T&C's? Can you talk to Audi head office and explain- can you offer them proof?

I imagine worsecase Audi wouldn't like negative press on Twitter, local national news outlets of they refused to help.

frankenstein12

1,915 posts

95 months

Saturday 7th January 2017
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I am sorry to hear about your friends diagnosis. A sad but interesting situation.

As others have said speak to the finance company and Audi as I assume there must be some form of policy in place to deal with this sort of thing.

Curious to know what the outcome will be to be honest.

JeS10

Original Poster:

375 posts

165 months

Saturday 7th January 2017
quotequote all
Thanks for the advice. As I'm clear you'll have understood I'm trying to help from a distance, and so I don't know what the terms and conditions of the lease are. I lease through VWFS, so might see what my terms are. My understanding is that the circumstances have been explained to finance company, but they're holding out for the £7k to end it early. Just wondering if anyone else has had experience of this. Clearly dying isn't something we consider when leasing.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Saturday 7th January 2017
quotequote all
JeS10 said:
Presumably if they just cancelled the direct debit, the car would be repossessed and they'd chase up the £7000?
Yep, and they could claim from the estate. Debts of the estate can be enforced right up to the limit of assets of the estate - and if he's leasing a new S1, then I guess that he's got some assets.

VWFS might take a different view, with a bit more goodwill, once he's actually kicked the bucket - they might be viewing this as a "get-out-of-lease-cheap" attempt.

ModernAndy

2,094 posts

134 months

Saturday 7th January 2017
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I had this happen to a client while I had my leasing company a number of years ago. It was a business lease IIRC and the car was for the client's father to run around in. I can't remember what the outcome was unfortunately but I seem to remember a settlement figure being involved. This was with VWFS on a Seat Leon.

hora

37,005 posts

210 months

Saturday 7th January 2017
quotequote all
ModernAndy said:
I had this happen to a client while I had my leasing company a number of years ago. It was a business lease IIRC and the car was for the client's father to run around in. I can't remember what the outcome was unfortunately but I seem to remember a settlement figure being involved. This was with VWFS on a Seat Leon.
But that's a business lease. A business lease is through a company/honoured by the company regardless of the user (who should be an employee). I bet there's a few Golf R's running round under false/business lease pretences.

For the OP he/she would be better off showing some form of proof of the illness; hospital appointments etc as (sad to think) people will try anything to get out of leases using false pretences.

AlmostUseful

3,276 posts

199 months

Saturday 7th January 2017
quotequote all
I don't know about what happened when people are dying and want to cancel, but when a friends son died she called BMW and expected the worse when trying to hand his 1 series back, she was sent a massive bunch of flowers and had all charges following the day of his death cancelled.

Not all the finance businesses are monsters, so just call and see what they say. Some proof will no doubt be expected.

darthmarmite

47 posts

86 months

Saturday 7th January 2017
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Matt UK said:
Best thing to do would be to phone the finance company, explain the situation, understand all the options. Then take it from there.
This is your best option by far and should be your first step regardless of anything else, given the unfortunate circumstances they may be more cooperative than normal.

From what you have said here I think the best hope is to look into a Voluntary Termination (VT) of the car finance, an option that should be available on all PCP payment plans. What a VT does is it allows you cancel a finance deal with immediate effect in the event of a change of circumstance. Upon triggering the VT, the car will be collected by VW and it should leave you with nothing to pay either as a lump sum or monthly payment. Such an action is, I believe, one of your consumer rights, the only important criteria being that 50% or more of the total amount due has been paid (Note: this is not just that amount borrowed but the complete sum including extra costs such as any dealer fees and interest). Due to this being a consumer right, as long as you go about it through the proper channels - and have paid off the 50% due or more - the finance company cannot refuse you and your credit rating cannot be affected in any way, and as I said, it should leave the family with no further expenses/payments at all.

Hope this helps and both my condolences and best wishes for you and the family.

Mercury00

4,098 posts

155 months

Saturday 7th January 2017
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^ A lease isn't the same as a PCP.

darthmarmite

47 posts

86 months

Saturday 7th January 2017
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Mercury00 said:
^ A lease isn't the same as a PCP.
Nope, a slight mistake specifying PCP in my post, however as far as I am aware, the Voluntary Termination still applies to lease schemes too.

In addition to my original post, something that is worth knowing too is that if less than a third of the total figure has been paid, VW can repossess the car at will provided that it isn't parked on your drive or private property. If more than a third has been paid then they need to have a court order for the repossession regardless of where the vehicle is parked. I doubt it will come this but thought it worth mentioning.

Monkeylegend

26,226 posts

230 months

Saturday 7th January 2017
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I would be very surprised if on presentation of a death certificate they did anything other than offer condolences, terminate the lease and take the car back with no further payment.


wack

2,103 posts

205 months

Saturday 7th January 2017
quotequote all
AlmostUseful said:
I don't know about what happened when people are dying and want to cancel, but when a friends son died she called BMW and expected the worse when trying to hand his 1 series back, she was sent a massive bunch of flowers and had all charges following the day of his death cancelled.

Not all the finance businesses are monsters, so just call and see what they say. Some proof will no doubt be expected.
That's how all businesses should handle a death, with compassion , many could learn from that example

tonys

1,080 posts

222 months

Saturday 7th January 2017
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As others have said, all you / the family can do, initially, is discuss the circumstances with the finance company. However, they may well decline to discuss the matter with anyone other than the 'customer', or someone who has power of attorney. They might accept written notification, signed by the customer, if he's unable to discuss it. They should then be able to explain what the options are and then the family might wish to make a decision as to the best way forward.

It is an unfortunate set of circumstances; it's unlikely to be the first time the company has had it arise. Whilst many companies have separate bereavement depts, the situation highlighted is slightly different.

It is more difficult for you in your position because you will be trying to assist, but from a distance and not necessarily being in possession of all the information. At the same time, it will be the least of the family's worries, so possibly not something anybody will really want to get to grips with, however, it won't simply sort itself out.


valiant

10,067 posts

159 months

Saturday 7th January 2017
quotequote all
darthmarmite said:
Mercury00 said:
^ A lease isn't the same as a PCP.
Nope, a slight mistake specifying PCP in my post, however as far as I am aware, the Voluntary Termination still applies to lease schemes too.

In addition to my original post, something that is worth knowing too is that if less than a third of the total figure has been paid, VW can repossess the car at will provided that it isn't parked on your drive or private property. If more than a third has been paid then they need to have a court order for the repossession regardless of where the vehicle is parked. I doubt it will come this but thought it worth mentioning.
I was under the impression that the main difference between a hire purchase type agreement (inc PCP) and a lease is that you don't have any VT rights with a personal lease.

CYMR0

3,940 posts

199 months

Saturday 7th January 2017
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valiant said:
I was under the impression that the main difference between a hire purchase type agreement (inc PCP) and a lease is that you don't have any VT rights with a personal lease.
No. The main difference is that PCP is just a form of HP where the payments are deferred rather than being spread over the entire term. (In other words, HP is like a PCP with a £0 balloon payment).

If it's a lease then it is a hire agreement, not a hire purchase agreement, with no right to acquire the goods.

While the Consumer Credit Act does govern them, leases are not a hire purchase or conditional sale and therefore s.99 (voluntary termination @ 50% of the total credit price) does not apply.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/sectio...

As such, assuming that the terms of the lease are not unfair then they will apply with no further terms being read in. s.101 of the CCA governs early termination of hire agreements but where the payments exceed £1,500 in any year it does not apply. (But if you ever find a 3+xx agreement for less than £100 you can terminate after 18 months on one month's notice...)

Edited by CYMR0 on Saturday 7th January 16:33

Justin S

3,637 posts

260 months

Saturday 7th January 2017
quotequote all
Awful situation to be in, but as others have said, speak to them. There are nice people out there, who would look at the situation and would expect them to be considerate and helpful to the situation.

CampDavid

9,145 posts

197 months

Saturday 7th January 2017
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I'm not advising you to do this, however, the most logical move from a financial point of view is to leave it parked on a Liverpool estate near Anfield on match day. Question the parentage of the first youth you asks for a fiver to "look aft ya caar mate" and refuse to pay. Allow the insurance firm to do the rest.

mdk1

451 posts

208 months

Saturday 7th January 2017
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Maybe speak to the supplying dealer, see if the will buy the car for stock and settle the finance, as S1's are still good stock cars.
Do you know what dealer it was bought from?