Guy is dying. Car is leased. What are the options?
Discussion
Hmm, as always on PH some very differing opinions aren't there? I don't think that any of us deny VW's right to enforce the terms of the contract, but are we all pontificating without seeing the outcome? The sum to VW is not even pocket change, and surely not compared to the compensation having been and continuing to be paid. Even Bosch have shelled out €300 million for their involvement. But as always, it will depend on who you contact and more specifically the tone of your approach that will usually decide the outcome. Going off half cock will get you nowhere, and a soft tongue turneth away wrath as they say. I have received great service from both VW and BMW with cars just out of warranty where they both picked up the bill without question, in the latter case a broken head stud requiring a new cylinder head at 13 months. Land Rover on the other hand completely turned their back when all the door solenoids went bang at 14 months. Some you win and some you lose I guess. But I will be very surprised if VW are not receptive to a solution once the death certificate and circumstances have been presented. Public relations are still important.
lowdrag said:
Hmm, as always on PH some very differing opinions aren't there? I don't think that any of us deny VW's right to enforce the terms of the contract, but are we all pontificating without seeing the outcome? The sum to VW is not even pocket change, and surely not compared to the compensation having been and continuing to be paid. Even Bosch have shelled out €300 million for their involvement. But as always, it will depend on who you contact and more specifically the tone of your approach that will usually decide the outcome. Going off half cock will get you nowhere, and a soft tongue turneth away wrath as they say. I have received great service from both VW and BMW with cars just out of warranty where they both picked up the bill without question, in the latter case a broken head stud requiring a new cylinder head at 13 months. Land Rover on the other hand completely turned their back when all the door solenoids went bang at 14 months. Some you win and some you lose I guess. But I will be very surprised if VW are not receptive to a solution once the death certificate and circumstances have been presented. Public relations are still important.
We're talking about £6100 here, not a small amount of money. It may be chicken feed compared to VW's other liabilities, but that is largely academic really. In actual fact given those liabilities it is all the more important they "look after the pennies".Notwithstanding that, and playing Devil's Advocate somewhat, but what's to say that the family friend took out a lease with the full knowledge that they would not be able to discharge the debt - a last hurrah as it were? Why should VW or any other company have to bear the cost of that final jolly? If they were to do this as a matter of course, writing off all those debts, then it would - as remarked earlier - the need to push up the price of everyone else's premiums to absorb those losses.
Because VW or A.N.Other lender can't differentiate between those people who take up a lease with foreknowledge that they wouldn't be able to service the debt, and those that are unfortunate enough to develop a terminal illness during the lease, the only way to be fair to all is to apply the same policies to all. It's not pleasant, particularly when you've lost someone, but it is fair.
MitchT said:
JeS10 said:
Not read the 4 pages, but just so you know VWFS haven't budged. Death certificate has been presented and they still want the money.
What a bunch of heartless scum. I'd be going to the national newspapers with that. I guess VW are so far down the PR toilet with their emissions scandal that they don't care anymore.Krikkit said:
Not sure about national news, but that is absolutely disgusting. What an awful thing to leave a bereaved family burdened with.
It is awful, but as stated above, debts don't die with you. When my mum died, every single bill she owed was paid off before we had access to her estate. I also recall getting a letter from a solicitor letting me know that I'd inherited money from my uncle. I remember it saying that debts are not inherited, and that my share of the inheritance would be forwarded to me once his debts had been cleared. It's easy to vilify VW here, especially when you hear how flexible and 'human' BMW can be in such circumstances, but it doesn't sound like they're in the wrong by asking for they are owed. Remove the emotions from this situation and you're basically asking a company to right off a £7000 debt because the person who leased the car has died. Not sure if anyone else has suggested this, but if VWFS absolutely won't move, and the outstanding amount does have to be paid, then surely the family should just pay it from the estate and keep the car until the end of the lease? Either way the estate will be down by £6K, so why not let one of the family members benefit from that?
I know VWFS don't allow personal leases to be transferred to another person (only to a business) but in this case you'd hope they'd be more flexible.
I know VWFS don't allow personal leases to be transferred to another person (only to a business) but in this case you'd hope they'd be more flexible.
JeS10 said:
I'm not really sure what I'm asking, but the daughter of this guy is pretty confused about to do with his car.
Nothing yet. He could still be around in 10 years - medicine isnt that precise.On the other hand she could try the local media and " VW want £7000 from a dying man".
Trabi601 said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
I find this whole story staggering. We had a lease car at work, thru BMW (Alphabet). The woman who had the car had her dad die. She was then suddenly responsible for driving her mum around and her wheelchair didn't go in the back of her car. We contact the lease co to ask about early termination and they couldn't be more amenable given the circumstances. Offer of no charge and a special deal if we upgraded to a bigger BMW, or a much reduced fee if we just ended the lease with no replacement.
I'd be speaking to someone higher up at VWFS, and explain how you will be taking to Twitter to display your displeasure.
How many cars does the business lease via Alphabet? - how long is the deal for? I'd be speaking to someone higher up at VWFS, and explain how you will be taking to Twitter to display your displeasure.
A company will always have very different relationships than an individual - I know we have a deal which is a 'fleet average mileage' deal, therefore, my excess miles aren't charged as someone else will have an equivalent car returned under mileage.
Trabi601 said:
Krikkit said:
Not sure about national news, but that is absolutely disgusting. What an awful thing to leave a bereaved family burdened with.
Contrary to pub-lawyering belief, debts don't die with you.There is no obligation for your relations or dependants to pay any bills remaining when you die. Nor to pay for your funeral - the authorities will provide a funeral if you have no money.
So, to answer Trabi601's point, your bereaved family are not burdened. They can just say, 'oh dear, the ole feller's died and he has got no money. What a shame'.
The Mad Monk said:
If your estate doesn't have the funds to satisfy any debts i.e. you die skint, then yes, your debts do die with you.
There is no obligation for your relations or dependants to pay any bills remaining when you die. Nor to pay for your funeral - the authorities will provide a funeral if you have no money.
So, to answer Trabi601's point, your bereaved family are not burdened. They can just say, 'oh dear, the ole feller's died and he has got no money. What a shame'.
Only if there really is no money left in the estate.There is no obligation for your relations or dependants to pay any bills remaining when you die. Nor to pay for your funeral - the authorities will provide a funeral if you have no money.
So, to answer Trabi601's point, your bereaved family are not burdened. They can just say, 'oh dear, the ole feller's died and he has got no money. What a shame'.
If there's money left, then debtors come before inheritors.
You can't just say 'sorry, no money', well, you can, but I believe there are laws against this kind of thing.
Trabi601 said:
The Mad Monk said:
If your estate doesn't have the funds to satisfy any debts i.e. you die skint, then yes, your debts do die with you.
There is no obligation for your relations or dependants to pay any bills remaining when you die. Nor to pay for your funeral - the authorities will provide a funeral if you have no money.
So, to answer Trabi601's point, your bereaved family are not burdened. They can just say, 'oh dear, the ole feller's died and he has got no money. What a shame'.
Only if there really is no money left in the estate.There is no obligation for your relations or dependants to pay any bills remaining when you die. Nor to pay for your funeral - the authorities will provide a funeral if you have no money.
So, to answer Trabi601's point, your bereaved family are not burdened. They can just say, 'oh dear, the ole feller's died and he has got no money. What a shame'.
If there's money left, then debtors come before inheritors.
You can't just say 'sorry, no money', well, you can, but I believe there are laws against this kind of thing.
Of course.
If you are boracic, then you are boracic.
If you are not skint, then you are not skint.
I think in our funny ways, we are agreeing.
I wasn't for a second suggesting that anyone should lie.
Sadly, calmly talking to a human being who is in a position to offer any understanding or concession in these circumstances is fast becoming the worst way to generate a positive outcome. Confronting large organisations like this directly on Twitter, on the other hand, is the way to go.
jeevescat said:
Sadly, calmly talking to a human being who is in a position to offer any understanding or concession in these circumstances is fast becoming the worst way to generate a positive outcome. Confronting large organisations like this directly on Twitter, on the other hand, is the way to go.
But then we do deals with these large inhuman corporations because they offer the best deals as everything is automated and everything based on a computer output to reduce costs. In many ways we've got what we wished for - the products we want in the cheapest manner.
charltjr said:
I'm not trying to be "that guy", but why is it so shocking that VWFS won't write this off because someone passes away?
I think that most people find it shocking because of all of all of the anecdotal stories of Volkswagen group's competitors being much more sympathetic and helpful to bereaved families. The overriding theme of this thread is that nobody seems to have similar stories relating to any manufacturer except VAG. Given that they are already in the midst of a protracted PR disaster only serves to make it even more bewildering for them to risk accusations (whether valid or not) of profiteering on the back of terminal illness. Or is the diesel fiasco so destructive that they have decided that the value of their brand is so worthless that it isn't worth protecting?Banks used to offer a product to protect against this (ppi) - look how that ended.
Awful situation but where do you draw the line without ppi / life insurance?
The termination costs and fees would have been made clear / within terms and conditions it's a highly regulated industry.
With hp / pcp the consumer has far greater protection / rights and it's for this reason that banks / finance houses have pushed people into lease agreements. Finance houses can genuinely LOSE money on some hp and lease deals - don't think that every lease deal is economical / making any real money - I've worked at leasing company and some cars make no money / few hundred pounds profit and combine that with a situation like this and you can see how the finance company may act like this.
Awful situation but where do you draw the line without ppi / life insurance?
The termination costs and fees would have been made clear / within terms and conditions it's a highly regulated industry.
With hp / pcp the consumer has far greater protection / rights and it's for this reason that banks / finance houses have pushed people into lease agreements. Finance houses can genuinely LOSE money on some hp and lease deals - don't think that every lease deal is economical / making any real money - I've worked at leasing company and some cars make no money / few hundred pounds profit and combine that with a situation like this and you can see how the finance company may act like this.
So a couple of months after the guy died, the car has went back (finally). The collection was a PITA. £7k paid back to VWFS, fair enough it's covered in the contract. Two weeks later there's the 'damage' charges - only £100 or so. The car had only covered a few thousand miles. It looked incredible, smelled pretty bad though - owner like to smoke, hence his death.
Buy some form of financial risk protection insurance, by not doing this you are taking a risk and the loan rightly should be paid off by the estate of the deceased. What else is the estate for? Should it be only used to pay those named in the will and all creditors told to sling their hooks?
I can't understand why people are arguing otherwise.
I can't understand why people are arguing otherwise.
Trabi601 said:
Krikkit said:
Not sure about national news, but that is absolutely disgusting. What an awful thing to leave a bereaved family burdened with.
Contrary to pub-lawyering belief, debts don't die with you.It wouldn't really cost them anything, and it's a good win on the PR front.
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