anybody here actually own a Tesla?
Discussion
My main issue & i looked extensively at the Model S P90D is range & SuperCharger availability for my needs as every 2 weeks i drive from West Lancs to Suffolk on a Monday & back on a Tuesday. This is a 240 mile drive there & of course the same back. The only SC's en route are at Keele Services Southbound which is only 50miles into my journey so i could top off on the way down but nothing even vaguely local once i get down to Suffolk & i'd not have enough juice to cover the remaining 190 miles South & then 240 miles home. Even if i went cross country to access the Keele SB on my way home which would be a chore, i'd still be needing a range of 380 which won't work.
That said, Tesla have announced the next SC install is at Charnock Richard services which is only 3 miles from my house so without the fortnightly journey to Suffolk & assuming i ordered within the next 5 days, i could run the car pretty much FOC.
Another factor is the huge price lift from the P90D which spec'd came out at just over £100k however the P100 is pretty much £130k which puts it into a whole different price bracket.
A real shame as i was almost sold on the low cost motoring (factoring out initial purchase price) & i like the look of the Model S & the Tech is out of this world, but these 2 factors limit it's usability for my needs so i had to walk away.
That said, Tesla have announced the next SC install is at Charnock Richard services which is only 3 miles from my house so without the fortnightly journey to Suffolk & assuming i ordered within the next 5 days, i could run the car pretty much FOC.
Another factor is the huge price lift from the P90D which spec'd came out at just over £100k however the P100 is pretty much £130k which puts it into a whole different price bracket.
A real shame as i was almost sold on the low cost motoring (factoring out initial purchase price) & i like the look of the Model S & the Tech is out of this world, but these 2 factors limit it's usability for my needs so i had to walk away.
alock said:
jamoor said:
Well even that, the chances are you will be doing a long journey on a trunk road, therefore they only need to be placed strategically rather than every corner.
If you look at a map of superchargers, that happens to be the case.
andIf you look at a map of superchargers, that happens to be the case.
jamoor said:
Well the car tells you if they are free or not.
I don't understand how this works. If superchargers are placed strategically and I'm supposed to plan tomorrows journey to include one, then knowing if another car arrives there just before I do is of no help. I'm already 100+ miles from home with 100+ miles to go.How do a few dozen Tesla owners plan a trip to the South West?
(this is the from the Tesla website today)
In the X I can do the journey in one go, but I pass 4 Superchargers on the way (Reading, Bristol, Gordano & Dart's Farm which is the one in your picture) anyway. I set off from home with 100% charge.
Seeing as we always used to stop for 30 mins on the way in our ICE Range Rover anyway for food/coffee and a pee (it is a 4 hour journey after all) - we now stop at Gordano (Reading is too early, Bristol a bit out of the way) for 30 mins and add another 150 miles to the battery (I will have used about 100-150 getting there depending on how heavy my foot has been). Gordano has 8 or 10 bays (can't remember) - very rarely full.
I then get to Devon with about 40-50% battery (100-140 miles range), having made no compromise on speed, comfort or time compared to when I used to do it in the Range Rover.
I then plug it into our cottage where at 7kW it recharges to full again in about 7-8 hours which is in reality for me by the next morning.
Coming home is the same.
Pre-EV in my 16-17mpg Range Rover I would have had to make a point of going out to fill up the RR the night before or making sure I stopped on the way home. I then would not fill up at the services as it was extortionate, so I would stop again just off the A38 to fill up on the way down so that once I got to the cottage I would have lots of fuel for all of our pottering
around. Then on the way back I would stop just before getting on the A38 to fill up again. So in fact journeys there and back are shorter now in the EV.
In an ICE, Motorway services is: Stop for 20-30 mins while doing stuff in services, followed by 10 mins in petrol station on the way out. With EV you get to skip the last 10 mins.
If I was to head deeper into the West country I would use any one of the large number of CYC Chademo rapid chargers if I needed a charge where I could get about 60 miles in about 30 mins.
Dart's Farm is only 2 bays and needs to be expanded, though there is a new one coming in Plymouth this year. The newer sites are usually 8-10/12 bays and are far better than the 2-4 bay ones that were first built.
I really don't miss standing around at the back of a Range Rover spending 5-10 mins filling a 100 litre tank in freezing weather/rain standing in a pool of diesel with sand mixed in.
Edited by Bee_Jay on Wednesday 11th January 16:41
Well you've hit the nail on the head with the problem with Range Rovers and their ilk - which is that they can't drive past a petrol station without needing refreshment - which is why I have a strong attachment to diesel estates that can do 600 miles in one hit. The particular journey works well for you, and if you don't do any other awkward journeys, that's great. I just look at my experience over the last year and think that at least once every 2 weeks I'd be having a complete 'mare trying to get home.
W8PMC said:
My main issue & i looked extensively at the Model S P90D is range & SuperCharger availability for my needs as every 2 weeks i drive from West Lancs to Suffolk on a Monday & back on a Tuesday. This is a 240 mile drive there & of course the same back. The only SC's en route are at Keele Services Southbound which is only 50miles into my journey so i could top off on the way down but nothing even vaguely local once i get down to Suffolk & i'd not have enough juice to cover the remaining 190 miles South & then 240 miles home. Even if i went cross country to access the Keele SB on my way home which would be a chore, i'd still be needing a range of 380 which won't work.
That said, Tesla have announced the next SC install is at Charnock Richard services which is only 3 miles from my house so without the fortnightly journey to Suffolk & assuming i ordered within the next 5 days, i could run the car pretty much FOC.
Another factor is the huge price lift from the P90D which spec'd came out at just over £100k however the P100 is pretty much £130k which puts it into a whole different price bracket.
A real shame as i was almost sold on the low cost motoring (factoring out initial purchase price) & i like the look of the Model S & the Tech is out of this world, but these 2 factors limit it's usability for my needs so i had to walk away.
There is a bit of an issue of currency fluctuation whcih could account for 20% of the increase though.That said, Tesla have announced the next SC install is at Charnock Richard services which is only 3 miles from my house so without the fortnightly journey to Suffolk & assuming i ordered within the next 5 days, i could run the car pretty much FOC.
Another factor is the huge price lift from the P90D which spec'd came out at just over £100k however the P100 is pretty much £130k which puts it into a whole different price bracket.
A real shame as i was almost sold on the low cost motoring (factoring out initial purchase price) & i like the look of the Model S & the Tech is out of this world, but these 2 factors limit it's usability for my needs so i had to walk away.
rxe said:
Well you've hit the nail on the head with the problem with Range Rovers and their ilk - which is that they can't drive past a petrol station without needing refreshment - which is why I have a strong attachment to diesel estates that can do 600 miles in one hit. The particular journey works well for you, and if you don't do any other awkward journeys, that's great. I just look at my experience over the last year and think that at least once every 2 weeks I'd be having a complete 'mare trying to get home.
I think you make a valid point, you aren't in their target market yet and they will happily send you to your local skoda dealer to buy a diesel estate while they sell their cars to people whose lifestyles suit the car.They aren't really a one size fits all solution, however some people are willing to compromise to have the most technologically advanced car on the planet, far and above any of the dross being sold by traditional automakers.
Edited to add - I don't own a tesla, I do appreciate electric that electric cars are firmly here to stay both fortunately and unfortunately.
It's quite possible that we may never even get around to owning electric cars as it will just be the norm to rent one instead in the not too distant future.
Edited by jamoor on Wednesday 11th January 18:54
jamoor said:
the most technologically advanced car on the planet, far and above any of the dross being sold by traditional automakers.
Bit of a stretch to call all other cars dross, as for being the most technologically advanced car on the planet - nope.They're ok for an EV but they use conventional materials, conventional battery technology, conventional motors. They've been out for almost 5 years now, not exactly cutting edge. Granted some of the autopilot stuff is quite advanced compared to others but I'd say that's because mainstream manufactures are being cautious and rightly so.
In some ways they are far more advanced. total integration in the control/electronics, so the stereo, abs, self driving, sat nav, lights etc are all one system rather than a collection of bought in parts. OTA updates can fix things, add new features and improve how the car works without any user input or a trip to the dealer.
The fundamental mechanics are simple, teslas packaging is very well done and pretty advanced.
The fundamental mechanics are simple, teslas packaging is very well done and pretty advanced.
gangzoom said:
DoubleD said:
Gadgets and cheap running costs are all very nice, but where are the electric sports cars and hot hatches?
Humm have you Googled Tesla on YouTube?? 0-60 in 2.4seconds is just a tad quicker than a Focus RS 
. Blaster72 said:
They're ok for an EV but they use conventional materials, conventional battery technology, conventional motors.
You are aware that Tesla aren't even using the same "battery technology" (assuming you mean battery chemistry) now that they were when the Model-S was first released? The P90 used graphite anodes which absorb the Lithium ions via intercalation; the P100 uses silicon which forms an alloy with the Lithium, allowing a significantly higher energy density. I know the idiot-friendly media like to just call everything "Lithium ion" but that actually covers a very broad spectrum of different chemistries, structures and technologies. There is a limit to what you can do to an electric motor - they're already over 95% efficient both as motor and generator so the main improvement that can be made is packaging but they're so small and light compared to the battery pack that there's no real reason to focus on the motor itself. At least the Tesla motor is induction so it doesn't require anything rare or hard to obtain like magnets.
ETA: I do agree that it's not the most technologically advanced car out there but it may well be the best indication that we have of what will, in the medium term, become the norm (or at least a norm).
Edited by kambites on Thursday 12th January 08:20
bagusbagus said:
I have a LPG car as well that can do 350km in one fill, I constantly run out of LPG even I count the remaining KM's , just because there are not much filling stations around, what happens when I run out of LPG? Nothing, I keep driving on petrol automaticly.
What happens when I run out of charge in Tesla? I'm fuked...
How often would you run out of LPG if you could refill it every night back to "full" from the comfort of your own home? What happens when I run out of charge in Tesla? I'm fuked...
Blaster72 said:
Bit of a stretch to call all other cars dross, as for being the most technologically advanced car on the planet - nope.
They're ok for an EV but they use conventional materials, conventional battery technology, conventional motors. They've been out for almost 5 years now, not exactly cutting edge. Granted some of the autopilot stuff is quite advanced compared to others but I'd say that's because mainstream manufactures are being cautious and rightly so.
Well, no mainstream manufactures are being cautious because they don't believe them to be a credible threat.They're ok for an EV but they use conventional materials, conventional battery technology, conventional motors. They've been out for almost 5 years now, not exactly cutting edge. Granted some of the autopilot stuff is quite advanced compared to others but I'd say that's because mainstream manufactures are being cautious and rightly so.
A car that practically drives itself is to be recognised, compared to Mercedes/BMW that have been at this game alot longer.
We also have the fact that the car is connected to the internet and updates itself which is quite a big feature that I don't think anyone offers.No other car uses or contributes to big data either.
Couple that with the entire business model behind automakers where you buy a car from a dealer, and the manufacturer refuses to talk to you. The entire dealer servicing charade. Overpriced parts.
Just because its made from similar materials, doesn't mean it's the same.
Edited by jamoor on Thursday 12th January 10:58
kambites said:
Blaster72 said:
They're ok for an EV but they use conventional materials, conventional battery technology, conventional motors.
You are aware that Tesla aren't even using the same "battery technology" (assuming you mean battery chemistry) now that they were when the Model-S was first released? The P90 used graphite anodes which absorb the Lithium ions via intercalation; the P100 uses silicon which forms an alloy with the Lithium, allowing a significantly higher energy density. I know the idiot-friendly media like to just call everything "Lithium ion" but that actually covers a very broad spectrum of different chemistries, structures and technologies. There is a limit to what you can do to an electric motor - they're already over 95% efficient both as motor and generator so the main improvement that can be made is packaging but they're so small and light compared to the battery pack that there's no real reason to focus on the motor itself. At least the Tesla motor is induction so it doesn't require anything rare or hard to obtain like magnets.
ETA: I do agree that it's not the most technologically advanced car out there but it may well be the best indication that we have of what will, in the medium term, become the norm (or at least a norm).
Edited by kambites on Thursday 12th January 08:20
As for another poster who mentioned customer service and parts prices - Tesla parts prices are notoriously expensive, ask anyone who has a Model S out of warranty. Customer service is up there with similar small scale manufacturers and so it should be given the sell Model S cars for well over £100k.
I love that Tesla have achieved what they have, they've used a similar sales patter to Apple to good effect and even somehow managed to get thousands of people to leave deposits for cars that they've never seen and never driven that are years away.
All to be applauded. I just don't think the Model S and X have a real future. They are a niche product, they are very expensive and 2nd hand out of warranty they will be very, very expensive to keep going.
All in my opinion of course. I think Tesla are at a turning point, the Model 3 will have to be very,vert good otherwise it could finish off the business. As it's looking like a £40k+ car now in the UK when it arrives it has a lot of really good competition and will have to be better than the best of them to really take off.
Its interesting times and I'm excited to see what they do next but I am conscious you need to be careful not to fall for the trinkets and baubles and get blinded by the tech, they really need to step up and make the best car not just an average car that's EV with lots of gadgets. I'm really hoping the pull out all the stops and produce something really special with the next one.
Edited by Blaster72 on Thursday 12th January 13:48
Details on the up and coming Superchargering costs announced, 20p/kWh. This pricing is for new cars ordered after 15th of Jan 2017, all current cars are still free for life.
So a 100kWh Model S will cost £20 to refuel. Not far off Ecotricty pricing. Ofcourse been Tesla prices may/will change in the future.
Germany is expensive, up to 0.34€ per minute.
So a 100kWh Model S will cost £20 to refuel. Not far off Ecotricty pricing. Ofcourse been Tesla prices may/will change in the future.
Germany is expensive, up to 0.34€ per minute.
Blaster72 said:
Still that battery technology isn't unique to Tesla is it?
I honestly don't know, but if it is it wont remain so - no technology that fundamental ever does for long. I agree that Tesla has no long-term future, at least as a car manufacturer. Mostly because Musk has said exactly that.
I did quite a bit of research into EV's recently as we are definitely below that "30 mile a day average". In the end the i3 (which was what I really wanted) was too small for our use case - mostly as it only had 2 seats in the back.
Depends on the test drive next weekend, but we're likely to go for a lexus hybrid; I actually really wanted the 330e, but can't justify the extra money a month.
The comments that make me sad are the nah-sayers that list out the reasons that EV's are 'useless'. The most common reasons (perfectly fair ones) that I see cited are reps doing 100% long journeys, and people with no off-street parking.
My view is that the choice of car is better than ever now - think back to when it was just G-Whizz or a prius. It's great that there is so much innovation in the space, big cars, small cars, hybrid, plugin , pure EV. However, yes, if you are doing 500 miles a week from you terraced house in the middle of a big town/city, you ain't the target market for an EV (but see also Plugin hybrid)- stick to your 2.0Tdi until Taxation and infrastructure persuade you otherwise. I think EV's still require you to think a little differently about what you want from a car, but no-ones forcing you out of your Diesel (gently nudging with Tax, but not forcing)
The way the government steer what people want with taxation is quite interesting as well. 4 years ago when it was all about CO2 - so everyone bought a diesel, now they are pivoting away from that and are slowly tweaking the tax incentives away from diesels to other things.
One assumes also that the government have to think about the fact that 50% of the new cars sold today are sold to company car owners, which soon become the pool of cars available to private owners who want a 3-4 year old car. Again in my own research for a new car, almost any middle-of-the-road car was 95% Diesel/5% petrol when you looked at the numbers on ebay - it will be really interesting to see what it's like in 5 years time.
my own nay-saying - well, a couple of things came to mind.
I think that there will be an inflection point soon where there will be slightly more EV's on the road than charging point capacity, and you'll carefully plan your trip around ecotricity chargers only to find that they are broken/being used/smartcard doesn't work. Hence for me right now, a Pure EV doesn't feel quite right, I3 with Rex or plugin hybrid I think is the way to go - esp if its your only car.
Its also hard/awkward to part own a car here, so if a leaf is fine for 95% of the journeys you do but not for that big annual family trip to Devon, then its painful to either
- hire a bigger/ICE car when you need the long journey (painful if you don't live in the city)
- own a second ICE car but only pay for when you use it. I know PAYG insurance is kind of here, but not for things like VED.
what this meant for us is that we had to find something that we could have as our only car - which ruled out pure electric.
Depends on the test drive next weekend, but we're likely to go for a lexus hybrid; I actually really wanted the 330e, but can't justify the extra money a month.
The comments that make me sad are the nah-sayers that list out the reasons that EV's are 'useless'. The most common reasons (perfectly fair ones) that I see cited are reps doing 100% long journeys, and people with no off-street parking.
My view is that the choice of car is better than ever now - think back to when it was just G-Whizz or a prius. It's great that there is so much innovation in the space, big cars, small cars, hybrid, plugin , pure EV. However, yes, if you are doing 500 miles a week from you terraced house in the middle of a big town/city, you ain't the target market for an EV (but see also Plugin hybrid)- stick to your 2.0Tdi until Taxation and infrastructure persuade you otherwise. I think EV's still require you to think a little differently about what you want from a car, but no-ones forcing you out of your Diesel (gently nudging with Tax, but not forcing)
The way the government steer what people want with taxation is quite interesting as well. 4 years ago when it was all about CO2 - so everyone bought a diesel, now they are pivoting away from that and are slowly tweaking the tax incentives away from diesels to other things.
One assumes also that the government have to think about the fact that 50% of the new cars sold today are sold to company car owners, which soon become the pool of cars available to private owners who want a 3-4 year old car. Again in my own research for a new car, almost any middle-of-the-road car was 95% Diesel/5% petrol when you looked at the numbers on ebay - it will be really interesting to see what it's like in 5 years time.
my own nay-saying - well, a couple of things came to mind.
I think that there will be an inflection point soon where there will be slightly more EV's on the road than charging point capacity, and you'll carefully plan your trip around ecotricity chargers only to find that they are broken/being used/smartcard doesn't work. Hence for me right now, a Pure EV doesn't feel quite right, I3 with Rex or plugin hybrid I think is the way to go - esp if its your only car.
Its also hard/awkward to part own a car here, so if a leaf is fine for 95% of the journeys you do but not for that big annual family trip to Devon, then its painful to either
- hire a bigger/ICE car when you need the long journey (painful if you don't live in the city)
- own a second ICE car but only pay for when you use it. I know PAYG insurance is kind of here, but not for things like VED.
what this meant for us is that we had to find something that we could have as our only car - which ruled out pure electric.
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