anybody here actually own a Tesla?
Discussion
I am without doubt a lover of the internal combustion engine BUT my wife is an A-B girl who wants character, quality and toys but at best might do 80 miles in a day
We've just picked up a BMW i3 Range extended, which on average on a full charge offers up 180 mile range.
I was apesimist and expected a milk float, but honestly, it is fantastic! Surprisingly fun to drive, lovely interior, goes well and on average a charge every other day. (We've actually yet to engage the range extender but reassurance is nice)
Embrace it folks they are brillliant and the Tesla Model 3 will I have no doubt be a huge success
We've just picked up a BMW i3 Range extended, which on average on a full charge offers up 180 mile range.
I was apesimist and expected a milk float, but honestly, it is fantastic! Surprisingly fun to drive, lovely interior, goes well and on average a charge every other day. (We've actually yet to engage the range extender but reassurance is nice)
Embrace it folks they are brillliant and the Tesla Model 3 will I have no doubt be a huge success
Chr1sch said:
I am without doubt a lover of the internal combustion engine BUT my wife is an A-B girl who wants character, quality and toys but at best might do 80 miles in a day
We've just picked up a BMW i3 Range extended, which on average on a full charge offers up 180 mile range.
I was apesimist and expected a milk float, but honestly, it is fantastic! Surprisingly fun to drive, lovely interior, goes well and on average a charge every other day. (We've actually yet to engage the range extender but reassurance is nice)
Embrace it folks they are brillliant and the Tesla Model 3 will I have no doubt be a huge success
I'm amazed at your quoted range I assume you are including the range extender mileage, I had one for a week and on Electric only it managed around 38-42 miles driving at normal speeds. It was fun to drive, amazing acceleration, a little bit understeery but in the end for me a specced one was just too much money for the limitations it presentedWe've just picked up a BMW i3 Range extended, which on average on a full charge offers up 180 mile range.
I was apesimist and expected a milk float, but honestly, it is fantastic! Surprisingly fun to drive, lovely interior, goes well and on average a charge every other day. (We've actually yet to engage the range extender but reassurance is nice)
Embrace it folks they are brillliant and the Tesla Model 3 will I have no doubt be a huge success
F355GTS said:
I'm amazed at your quoted range I assume you are including the range extender mileage, I had one for a week and on Electric only it managed around 38-42 miles driving at normal speeds. It was fun to drive, amazing acceleration, a little bit understeery but in the end for me a specced one was just too much money for the limitations it presented
The early cars had a quoted range of 80-100 miles, at some point during 2016 they changed it to roughly double the battery capacity. I'm guessing you drove an early car (and probably quite hard if you only got 40 miles from it). I know someone with a pure EV version who happily do 150 miles trips. NHS lease company we're doing an outstanding deal on Tesla's a few months back so there are now a whole lot at both provider and commission sites locally which has totally outstripped availability for the charging points ... this is a deal breaker for me as if people are in surgery etc... they cannot move their vehicles once full
Most NHS sites now charge staff a monthly deductible if you use the points as well to recoup the electricity costs which isn't cheap either (especially as it's not metered by user so you're getting charged whether you use it or not)
Most NHS sites now charge staff a monthly deductible if you use the points as well to recoup the electricity costs which isn't cheap either (especially as it's not metered by user so you're getting charged whether you use it or not)
lbc said:
How do EV's cope with winter?
Headlights and heater on for an hour 40 mile journey, and heated rear window on.
I would expect the battery will not last for same conditions on return journey.
200 miles range will turn into 60 miles?
In short, no. Lights, heaters etc use hardly any electricity compared to the motor. On the Leaf the max I've seen lights/heater pull consistently is no more than 3-4KW, most of the time even in single digit temp the climate control only pulls 1-2KW. This compares to the motor that needs 30KW most of the time just to keep moving at a constant speed.Headlights and heater on for an hour 40 mile journey, and heated rear window on.
I would expect the battery will not last for same conditions on return journey.
200 miles range will turn into 60 miles?
Until you actually own an EV no amount of guess work can really make you understand the limitations, or lack of.
lbc said:
How do EV's cope with winter?
Headlights and heater on for an hour 40 mile journey, and heated rear window on.
I would expect the battery will not last for same conditions on return journey.
200 miles range will turn into 60 miles?
In short, no, these loads turn out to be tiny to negligible.Headlights and heater on for an hour 40 mile journey, and heated rear window on.
I would expect the battery will not last for same conditions on return journey.
200 miles range will turn into 60 miles?
You are thinking about those things coping running on a normal 12V car battery (about 0.6kWh of capacity) which is the context we are all used to, and an EV has a MASSIVE battery in comparison.
To put things into perspective here, let's talk about our Leaf here with a 30kWh battery. It will do about 120 miles, so 4 miles/kWh with simple maths.
Headlights and heated rear window (also heated front and rear seats and the heated steering wheel) have negligible impact. Lets say they together total 500W (and I am being very generous here) that means that if you sat stationary with all those things on full power it would last for 60 hours. Typically EVs have LED headlights to minimise the impact further.
Now lets talk about heating the car. The heater/aircon in EVs is typically about 3kW - so you could sit stationary for 10 hours with the heating on full.
So, if I drove around with the heating on in the leaf for an hour, that would use 3kWh, meaning I would lose 12 miles of range heating the car.
In reality, all these things are thermostatic and not on full output all the time, and the heater in the Leaf is in fact a heat pump (more efficient), so you would lose about 3-6 miles of range in an hour. The display in the Leaf actually shows you the range with/without aircon, and typically it shows between 3-6 miles of range loss, sometimes only 1 or 2 miles.
Our Tesla has a 100kWh battery, so you could triple the run times above. In fact many Tesla owners regularly "camp out" in their cars with the A/C running all night. Massive battery and no engine running pumping out carbon monoxide makes it a great solution.
Main point - you don't worry about it, it doesn't make a difference.
(edited to apologise for repeats as gangzoom replied while I was composing this)
Edited by Bee_Jay on Sunday 8th January 10:30
F355GTS said:
Chr1sch said:
I am without doubt a lover of the internal combustion engine BUT my wife is an A-B girl who wants character, quality and toys but at best might do 80 miles in a day
We've just picked up a BMW i3 Range extended, which on average on a full charge offers up 180 mile range.
I was apesimist and expected a milk float, but honestly, it is fantastic! Surprisingly fun to drive, lovely interior, goes well and on average a charge every other day. (We've actually yet to engage the range extender but reassurance is nice)
Embrace it folks they are brillliant and the Tesla Model 3 will I have no doubt be a huge success
I'm amazed at your quoted range I assume you are including the range extender mileage, I had one for a week and on Electric only it managed around 38-42 miles driving at normal speeds. It was fun to drive, amazing acceleration, a little bit understeery but in the end for me a specced one was just too much money for the limitations it presentedWe've just picked up a BMW i3 Range extended, which on average on a full charge offers up 180 mile range.
I was apesimist and expected a milk float, but honestly, it is fantastic! Surprisingly fun to drive, lovely interior, goes well and on average a charge every other day. (We've actually yet to engage the range extender but reassurance is nice)
Embrace it folks they are brillliant and the Tesla Model 3 will I have no doubt be a huge success
Ours is the new 2016/17 model 94ah battery model
With gov grants and BMW finance incentives (contributions and 0%) it made a lot of sense for us (switching from an 07 X5 it feels positively free 😂)
gangzoom said:
In short, no. Lights, heaters etc use hardly any electricity compared to the motor. On the Leaf the max I've seen lights/heater pull consistently is no more than 3-4KW, most of the time even in single digit temp the climate control only pulls 1-2KW. This compares to the motor that needs 30KW most of the time just to keep moving at a constant speed.
Presumably you are talking about motorway speeds otherwise 30kW (~40bhp) sounds a little excessive for a constant speed.Sorry, but i disagree that heating loads are negligible in real world useage!
A typical cabin heater is rated at between 5 and 7kW of heating (or cooling) maximum power. For a resistive type heater, that means it consumes the same 5 to 7kW from the battery. For a heat pump type cycle, where it doesn't create heat energy, but just moves it in or out of the cabin, you gain around 1 2.5 to 3x efficiency advantage, and so can do 7kW of heating for only around 3kW of input energy.
In the uk, in summer, because we don't have much direc sun, and the temperature is typicality around 20deg outside, heating / cooling average loads are low, less than 1kW. But in winter, i'm going to suggest heating loads for a complete cabin of a passenger vehicle for the occupants to remain at a comfortable temp of say 20degC are in the order of 4 to 5kW.
If we take your 4kM/kWhr figure, which is a pretty good consumption figure (i'm getting between 3.1 and 3.5 at this time of year) and assume a typical uk average journey speed of about 50kph (~30 mph), that means the average power being consumed is 12.5kW. So, the cabin heating loads, at lets say an average of 3kW are something like 20% of the road load. Not inconsequential really, and the reason you really want to tick the "heat pump" option if available for cabin heating in the uk!)
A typical cabin heater is rated at between 5 and 7kW of heating (or cooling) maximum power. For a resistive type heater, that means it consumes the same 5 to 7kW from the battery. For a heat pump type cycle, where it doesn't create heat energy, but just moves it in or out of the cabin, you gain around 1 2.5 to 3x efficiency advantage, and so can do 7kW of heating for only around 3kW of input energy.
In the uk, in summer, because we don't have much direc sun, and the temperature is typicality around 20deg outside, heating / cooling average loads are low, less than 1kW. But in winter, i'm going to suggest heating loads for a complete cabin of a passenger vehicle for the occupants to remain at a comfortable temp of say 20degC are in the order of 4 to 5kW.
If we take your 4kM/kWhr figure, which is a pretty good consumption figure (i'm getting between 3.1 and 3.5 at this time of year) and assume a typical uk average journey speed of about 50kph (~30 mph), that means the average power being consumed is 12.5kW. So, the cabin heating loads, at lets say an average of 3kW are something like 20% of the road load. Not inconsequential really, and the reason you really want to tick the "heat pump" option if available for cabin heating in the uk!)
kambites said:
3kw sounds an order of magnitude too high to heat a car to me? If you put a 3kw fan heater in a car it'd be horrifically hot within a few seconds.
no it wouldn't, not when you're driving along......Think about the total cabin surface area, and the fact that the air in the car is NOT static, but is being replaced with clean air all (most) of the time. Even on re-circulation mode there are minimum exchange volume rules for passenger comfort. (which is why all modern cars have the little rubber air exit flappers, usually hidden behind the rear bumper, to aid cabin air exchange.
As i said, conventional water fed cabin heaters are rated at 5kW (for a small passenger car) up to over 12kW for a large SUV. A/C systems again, 3kW for a small car, 7kW or more for an SUV
EV-heaters
Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 8th January 13:13
ex1 said:
DoubleD said:
I cant think of an electric car that i would want to own. Unless someone now makes a hot hatch size car thats exciting to drive.
They already do.BMW i3 -Rear Wheel Drive - not to much grip - 0-30 = 2.7s.
Go an take a test drive. You will be pleasantly surprised.
Bee_Jay said:
The Supercharger map is here: https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/findus#/bounds/65,55,3...
If you click on Destination chargers, these are slower overnight chargers, usually at hotels, and these are increasing in number fast.
Holy moly. That's still dire. One supercharger in the whole south west and nothing in the whole of Wales north of the bottom. As for destination chargers, I don't think these swanky hotels would take kindly to me sitting up all night reading a book while I leach their electricity. If you click on Destination chargers, these are slower overnight chargers, usually at hotels, and these are increasing in number fast.
There's still a lengthy ways to go.
The reduced range in winter is not just down to lights / heater / wipers etc - but also the operating temperature of the battery pack itself. Setting the departure time in my i3 (a Rex) warms the battery pack up as well as the cabin which gives a few more miles. A bit depressing on a cold day later on (assuming unable to charge at work) to see the range plunge when you get in again.
I have a 60 and regularly manage 78 miles round trip (about 70% motorway) without using the Rex - but yesterday for example I used the Rex to complete a 110 mile journey
I have a 60 and regularly manage 78 miles round trip (about 70% motorway) without using the Rex - but yesterday for example I used the Rex to complete a 110 mile journey
ex1 said:
DoubleD said:
From what ive read its a good nimble town car, but its not an exciting hot hatch.
Everyone who has driven mine have been EV sceptics and said much the same. They have all come back with a smile on their face telling my how "fun" it is.Saying that I'd have one if they weren't so expensive (and I had somewhere to charge it at home).
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