Hans device...or not? Fire proof overalls? Opinions please
Discussion
As per the title, I do track days and regularly get up to 130-140 mph.
I understand the arguments re Hans devices for drivers in high speed race series (oval racing, F1 etc).
I value my head and neck.
Do we, the well-informed PH readership, think I should be looking at getting a Hans device for track days in a fast road car?
I am not worried about looking pretentious.
Same question re fire-proof overalls.
My track car is a (fibre-glass) TVR, so if it goes up in flames it will burn brightly.
And the fuel lines are about 12 inches above my feet.
I suppose that answers my question really...
I understand the arguments re Hans devices for drivers in high speed race series (oval racing, F1 etc).
I value my head and neck.
Do we, the well-informed PH readership, think I should be looking at getting a Hans device for track days in a fast road car?
I am not worried about looking pretentious.
Same question re fire-proof overalls.
My track car is a (fibre-glass) TVR, so if it goes up in flames it will burn brightly.
And the fuel lines are about 12 inches above my feet.
I suppose that answers my question really...
interesting discussion.
i think the greatest risk for a track TVR is fire from something breaking rather than a crash. Most track cars are a little old and something can easily break, and as you say, fuel could be all over your feet and legs. If they made fire proof trousers that would be useful even for trackdayers.
i think the greatest risk for a track TVR is fire from something breaking rather than a crash. Most track cars are a little old and something can easily break, and as you say, fuel could be all over your feet and legs. If they made fire proof trousers that would be useful even for trackdayers.
F355GTS said:
I have always used fireproof overalls in the Caterham and 2 years ago took the advice of a couple of the instructors to get a Hans device 
used to also use fireresistance suits when in the 7. At brands on a track day a few yrs ago saw a 7 go off into the barrier and catch fire. Lucky the driver was ok and jumped out but had he been unconscious it took some time for a marshell to get there to put it out. My friend who also drove 7's but wasn't in his fire suit for his first run out put it on and stopped moaning about being hot in it.So yes get a fire suit and yes a hans for track.
77racing said:
Ment to say I have several sets of 6 point harnesses out of racing date if you need some cheap ones, bell me if needed.
Thanks Perry, that's kind of you. I have a set of 3 inch 4 point harnesses, and don't have the fixing for the crutch strap, so would probably take the risk of sliding under the harnesses.
I use Tuscan seats in my Chimaera, with the seat pads removed on track, so am quite low in the seats.
I used to use the harnesses before I got the Tuscan seats, but took them out after four hours of trying to get them to fit with the new seats and my inertia reel belts.
I just need to re-work the harness fixings, as i want to retain the use of the normal inertia reel belts for road use.
To everyone else, as you can tell from the tone of my original post I am receptive to the idea of max safety (given that I am daft enough to drive a TVR on track at my age).
Thank you for your thoughts - I think you are right and I should embrace all of them. There is little enough protection in a TVR as it is, and to date I have been lucky on my excursions off the track, choosing places with loads of space to lose concentration, or on one memorable occasion at 120 mph, the brakes.
Thank you for your thoughts - I think you are right and I should embrace all of them. There is little enough protection in a TVR as it is, and to date I have been lucky on my excursions off the track, choosing places with loads of space to lose concentration, or on one memorable occasion at 120 mph, the brakes.
I like the idea of a HANS, even for track days.
Have you seen Darren Langeveld's video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0uzMaSsPtw
I plan on buying a new helmet and HANS at Autosport. Even a relatively low speed crash can do serious damage to your neck with all that extra weight of a helmet on your head!
There is the Simpson body brace for people without a harness, too - http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/fhr-hans-...
Have you seen Darren Langeveld's video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0uzMaSsPtw
I plan on buying a new helmet and HANS at Autosport. Even a relatively low speed crash can do serious damage to your neck with all that extra weight of a helmet on your head!
There is the Simpson body brace for people without a harness, too - http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/fhr-hans-...
I'd recommend trial fitting a HANS device in the car (borrow one if you can) first of all to get the right size/angle but also as not all seats are 'HANS compatible'. By that I mean there needs to be enough space for the upper part of the HANS device behind the helmet without pushing your head forward.
You'd get an idea what I mean there needs to be enough room to put your hand between helmet and seat.
Standard Lotus seats for example don't work with HANS, the 'HANS compatible' versions have a recess at shoulder/neck area to allow space.
I use HANS for trackdays in my Lotus 2-11. It's been a bit of a quandary for me to use it when wearing a helmet on the road (which you need to in the rain). It's a trade off of safety in a collision vs visibility/movement limitations. My personal decision is to not wear it on the road and only wear a helmet when I absolutely have to...
You'd get an idea what I mean there needs to be enough room to put your hand between helmet and seat.
Standard Lotus seats for example don't work with HANS, the 'HANS compatible' versions have a recess at shoulder/neck area to allow space.
I use HANS for trackdays in my Lotus 2-11. It's been a bit of a quandary for me to use it when wearing a helmet on the road (which you need to in the rain). It's a trade off of safety in a collision vs visibility/movement limitations. My personal decision is to not wear it on the road and only wear a helmet when I absolutely have to...
The Simpson device still requires a harness but does have some other advantages over conventional HANS. All HANS devices ideally need a 6 point harness as it is the harness that holds the HANS in place (Simpson included) and if you move in the belts during a collision (e.g. "submarining") then the device may not be effective in keeping your head correctly attached to your body. The Simpson is allegedly more tolerant of sub optimal belt positions but their fitting instructions are quite similar to other HANS. For the record I use a Simpson device when racing with a 6 point harness.
Very useful - think I may need to take myself and the car to somewhere like Merlin @ Castle Combe to get an expert to fit me, a good helmet and the Hans/Simpson device in the car. I do have doubts whether my seats would be suitable, but I do have the option of doing a seat swap for track days.
Present road seats:
You can just about see the harness fixing eye on the roll cage behind the passenger seat
Present road seats:
You can just about see the harness fixing eye on the roll cage behind the passenger seat
IME, from springing and hillclimbing a Griffith (exactly the same chassis as a Chimaera), if you chuck at least a half cage in the Chim and you'll undoubtedly notice an immediate absence of chassis flex, which really helps on track. I went from no cage, to half, to a fitted Caged full cage. Also had bucket seats and harnesses which helped a lot too in keeping you in place and (sort of) in control of things.
Neck brace; no one can tell you you'll never need one. I did try a very light OMP brace which was comfortable but it was never put to the test.
I always wore fireproof overall because they were compulsory but then, seeing as I had them, I generally also used them at events where they were not. Some people snigger at you, but who cares? Once you've bought them, use them.
Neck brace; no one can tell you you'll never need one. I did try a very light OMP brace which was comfortable but it was never put to the test.
I always wore fireproof overall because they were compulsory but then, seeing as I had them, I generally also used them at events where they were not. Some people snigger at you, but who cares? Once you've bought them, use them.
Yes, I have a half cage at the moment in my Chimaera - all behind the seats, but it is close to my head (not dangerously so) and affords some protection. It also stiffens the rear of the car quite noticeably, as you said.
Looks like you were testing the side impact protection (non-existant!) in the TVR there. I will avoid the obvious 69 jokes.....with difficulty!
I know I have been lucky so far. My only damage accident in 4 years of track events was a slide into an earth bank at low speed on a sprint. I thought I was a driving god.....but failing to control a power slide out of the hairpin at Curborough proved I wasn't. Just cracked the front corner fibreglass and damaged my ego.
Other excursions off track have included at spin in damp conditions at Snetterton at 90+mph - I touched a puddle and did 3.5 rotations along the main straight, luckily in a straight line, ending up backwards on the grass at the first corner. An MGB that did the same trick 10 minutes later hit the barrier on the right hand side of the track hard, trashing both ends of the car on the armco.
And I have also left the grey stuff at Mallory Park at the entrance to Gerards at 115 mph when I had brain fade and completely forgot to brake - I count myself lucky that there is so much grass there, and that i managed to spin the car to stop it without rolling it over. Similarly I didn't roll when I went into the gravel by the pit entrance, locked up and sideways, on a different Mallory track day, though I did trigger the fuel cut off.
A 120mph spin with complete brake failure at Hullavington had me thanking the Gods that it was an open airfield.
So, I thank you all for taking the time to give thoughtful advice, and I will take your advice and will spend the money to give myself as much head and neck protection as possible, properly professionally advised.
When I started this thread I was already thinking that way, but was expecting at least one post saying don't bother. I am actually pleased to see everyone on the same page on safety.
And yes, I will from now on be one of those "all the gear, no idea" twerps who wears race overalls to a track day. As my daughter says all too frequently, I am at the age when I only look cool with a Magnum in my hand - a Double Caramel one, not a .357. So I have no dignity left to lose.
Looks like you were testing the side impact protection (non-existant!) in the TVR there. I will avoid the obvious 69 jokes.....with difficulty!
I know I have been lucky so far. My only damage accident in 4 years of track events was a slide into an earth bank at low speed on a sprint. I thought I was a driving god.....but failing to control a power slide out of the hairpin at Curborough proved I wasn't. Just cracked the front corner fibreglass and damaged my ego.
Other excursions off track have included at spin in damp conditions at Snetterton at 90+mph - I touched a puddle and did 3.5 rotations along the main straight, luckily in a straight line, ending up backwards on the grass at the first corner. An MGB that did the same trick 10 minutes later hit the barrier on the right hand side of the track hard, trashing both ends of the car on the armco.
And I have also left the grey stuff at Mallory Park at the entrance to Gerards at 115 mph when I had brain fade and completely forgot to brake - I count myself lucky that there is so much grass there, and that i managed to spin the car to stop it without rolling it over. Similarly I didn't roll when I went into the gravel by the pit entrance, locked up and sideways, on a different Mallory track day, though I did trigger the fuel cut off.
A 120mph spin with complete brake failure at Hullavington had me thanking the Gods that it was an open airfield.
So, I thank you all for taking the time to give thoughtful advice, and I will take your advice and will spend the money to give myself as much head and neck protection as possible, properly professionally advised.
When I started this thread I was already thinking that way, but was expecting at least one post saying don't bother. I am actually pleased to see everyone on the same page on safety.
And yes, I will from now on be one of those "all the gear, no idea" twerps who wears race overalls to a track day. As my daughter says all too frequently, I am at the age when I only look cool with a Magnum in my hand - a Double Caramel one, not a .357. So I have no dignity left to lose.
I've been looking into getting my frontal head restraint for this year and a fair bit of research has convinced me the simpson hybrid is the way to go. Positives (from my perspective) over a Hans device being
a) Frontal and also side impact protection (don't think Hans offers any side protection?)
b) Can be used in a car with any seat design or angle of seat (no need to buy a seperate 20deg and 30deg for example)
c) Easy to get in and out of the car
d) Can be used with full 3" width harness (no need to drop to 2" for the hans).
That's my reasons anyway, sure everyone has different pro's and con's. The side protection is a biggie for me though, a no brainer in my mind.
Hope this provides some help to someone
Dunc.
a) Frontal and also side impact protection (don't think Hans offers any side protection?)
b) Can be used in a car with any seat design or angle of seat (no need to buy a seperate 20deg and 30deg for example)
c) Easy to get in and out of the car
d) Can be used with full 3" width harness (no need to drop to 2" for the hans).
That's my reasons anyway, sure everyone has different pro's and con's. The side protection is a biggie for me though, a no brainer in my mind.
Hope this provides some help to someone
Dunc.
Edited by dunc_sx on Wednesday 11th January 12:50
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