RE: TDI the new PPI

[Mr2Mike]

daveco said:

What do you think lead VW to apply this 'cheat' in the first place?

Their intentions were to maximise profit, appease the shareholders. In this instance they did so fraudulently.

And somehow you think the claimants are to be criticised?

Yes I absolutely do. VAG deserves and has received plenty of criticism because of their dishonesty, but dishonesty from their customers also deserves criticism.

If they were claiming due to loss of value and that loss could actually be quantified then fair enough, but that's not what I was talking about. It's the fact that many of these spineless cretins claim they deserve a stack of money because their car has hurt the environment more than the manufacturer said it would, rather than being honest with themselves and everyone else.

[Devil2575]

Mr2Mike said:

It's the fact that many of these spineless cretins claim they deserve a stack of money because their car has hurt the environment more than the manufacturer said it would, rather than being honest with themselves and everyone else.

So your contention is that no one is bothered about how much their car pollutes?

[Mr Snrub]

Devil2575 said:

Mr2Mike said:

It's the fact that many of these spineless cretins claim they deserve a stack of money because their car has hurt the environment more than the manufacturer said it would, rather than being honest with themselves and everyone else.

So your contention is that no one is bothered about how much their car pollutes?

The vast majority only care how much the VED or BIK is

[Tankrizzo]

Devil2575 said:

So your contention is that no one is bothered about how much their car pollutes?

That is nothing like he said.

[Devil2575]

Tankrizzo said:

Devil2575 said:

So your contention is that no one is bothered about how much their car pollutes?

That is nothing like he said.

Errr...yes it is.

It's not exactly the same but it's also not vastly different.

Quite how he thinks he knows what people actually think is beyond me.

[Devil2575]

Mr Snrub said:

Devil2575 said:

Mr2Mike said:

It's the fact that many of these spineless cretins claim they deserve a stack of money because their car has hurt the environment more than the manufacturer said it would, rather than being honest with themselves and everyone else.

So your contention is that no one is bothered about how much their car pollutes?

The vast majority only care how much the VED or BIK is

Do they? And how exactly do you know that?

[Tankrizzo]

Devil2575 said:

Errr...yes it is.

It's not exactly the same but it's also not vastly different.

Quite how he thinks he knows what people actually think is beyond me.

Come on mate, he's making an assumption about human nature when it comes to things like this. One which in my experience is probably, depressingly, quite accurate.

[Mr Snrub]

Devil2575 said:

Mr Snrub said:

Devil2575 said:

Mr2Mike said:

It's the fact that many of these spineless cretins claim they deserve a stack of money because their car has hurt the environment more than the manufacturer said it would, rather than being honest with themselves and everyone else.

So your contention is that no one is bothered about how much their car pollutes?

The vast majority only care how much the VED or BIK is

Do they? And how exactly do you know that?

So if fuel was cheaper and the tax rate the same for all cars diesels would sell in similar numbers?

[Shakermaker]

Mr2Mike said:

Yes I absolutely do. VAG deserves and has received plenty of criticism because of their dishonesty, but dishonesty from their customers also deserves criticism.

If they were claiming due to loss of value and that loss could actually be quantified then fair enough, but that's not what I was talking about. It's the fact that many of these spineless cretins claim they deserve a stack of money because their car has hurt the environment more than the manufacturer said it would, rather than being honest with themselves and everyone else.

I'll state here - I don't think that I personally, am owed any money on the basis that my affected engine might have been more polluting than the brochure said so.

I may be owed money IF this scandal has affected the resale value of my car, which was purchased a year before this scandal was brought to light, and the consequence was clear come sale time. As I said earlier though, such comparisons will be difficult to draw though - there were no 8 year old cars at the time I bought mine as the model was only 6 years old, and so by the time I come to sell mine later this year, it will be 8 years old but all 8 year old 2.0 TDI variants will have only been sold after the news of the scandal - which may/may not have had an impact on customer perception etc etc.

However, I doubt this will come to anything from that perspective. Certainly the Skoda dealer I bought the car from hasn't seen any drop in trade because of this, so I'll probably be just fine.

[Devil2575]

Tankrizzo said:

Devil2575 said:

Errr...yes it is.

It's not exactly the same but it's also not vastly different.

Quite how he thinks he knows what people actually think is beyond me.

Come on mate, he's making an assumption about human nature when it comes to things like this. One which in my experience is probably, depressingly, quite accurate.

He's using an assumption to describe people as spineless cretins.

He may well be right but in my view he's getting worked up about the wrong people. People should be enraged about companies behaving like this. If they go bust because thay have to pay out compensation to customers then it's their own fault and they deserve everything they get. Whether or not the customer has actually suffered as a result is imaterial IMHO.

[daveco]

Mr2Mike said:

daveco said:

What do you think lead VW to apply this 'cheat' in the first place?

Their intentions were to maximise profit, appease the shareholders. In this instance they did so fraudulently.

And somehow you think the claimants are to be criticised?

Yes I absolutely do. VAG deserves and has received plenty of criticism because of their dishonesty, but dishonesty from their customers also deserves criticism.

If they were claiming due to loss of value and that loss could actually be quantified then fair enough, but that's not what I was talking about. It's the fact that many of these spineless cretins claim they deserve a stack of money because their car has hurt the environment more than the manufacturer said it would, rather than being honest with themselves and everyone else.

Yes but then you have public opinion and perception on dieselgate.

Claimants many not care about the environment but probably do care about being perceived not to care about the environment, if they own a VW. Which will in turn affect resale value.

Either way VW will be making the claimants suffer financially, mainly by discounting the same cars now to make them more appealing to new buyers, which will affect resale value anyway.

[culpz]

Devil2575 said:

They could if it states in the product literature that diesel are not suitable for short trips and the sales reps in dealers advise customers of that.

I don't understand. That surely then backs up VW/dealership(s)/sales rep(s) in that case, does it not?

If there is literature there to state that and the customer is advised of that and the customer buys anyway, that is the customer's fault and not anyone else's, surely?

[culpz]

Sheepshanks said:

Then those people could say they were mis-sold the car.

Mis-sold in what way? What loss, if any, have those people suffered?

Nothing, really. However, when there is compensation to be had, it's just any old excuse that springs to mind.

This is why, to me, this whole things seems so pathetic.

[Devil2575]

culpz said:

Devil2575 said:

They could if it states in the product literature that diesel are not suitable for short trips and the sales reps in dealers advise customers of that.

I don't understand. That surely then backs up VW/dealership(s)/sales rep(s) in that case, does it not?

If there is literature there to state that and the customer is advised of that and the customer buys anyway, that is the customer's fault and not anyone else's, surely?

I said "If".

VW could only claim that someone bought the wrong car if they advise their customers in advance of purchase as to what cars are suitable for certain kinds of driving. Whether they do or not is another matter. I have no idea.

[daveco]

culpz said:

Sheepshanks said:

Then those people could say they were mis-sold the car.

Mis-sold in what way? What loss, if any, have those people suffered?

Nothing, really. However, when there is compensation to be had, it's just any old excuse that springs to mind.

This is why, to me, this whole things seems so pathetic.

The value of their cars will go down.

They are now driving around in a car that a portion of the public perceive to have been bad for the environment.

They will have more difficulty than before selling it on, or trading it in against another marque.

[Devil2575]

daveco said:

The value of their cars will go down.

They are now driving around in a car that a portion of the public correctly understand to have been bad for the environment.

They will have more difficulty than before selling it on, or trading it in against another marque.

EFA

[culpz]

Devil2575 said:

I said "If".

VW could only claim that someone bought the wrong car if they advise their customers in advance of purchase as to what cars are suitable for certain kinds of driving. Whether they do or not is another matter. I have no idea.

It's just like the whole DPF thing really. People having issues with them when doing the wrong type of driving and find it's not under warranty and they have to fit the bill for it.

Regardless if they were told in the first place about it or not from the dealership, i don't see how they're due compensation for it. I've not known it to be the case so i suspect not much will come of this either.

[culpz]

daveco said:

The value of their cars will go down.

They are now driving around in a car that a portion of the public perceive to have been bad for the environment.

They will have more difficulty than before selling it on, or trading it in against another marque.

I really don't think this will be the case. No-one will care when all this is over, despite the outcome.

VW's reputation has not been tarnished. Most people probably couldn't care less. I'm pretty sure most forgot about the scandal until this potential compensation claim came about. They have and will continue to sell plenty of cars.

Plus, how do you/can you prove that is the specific reason for the drop in re-sale value?

[Devil2575]

culpz said:

Devil2575 said:

I said "If".

VW could only claim that someone bought the wrong car if they advise their customers in advance of purchase as to what cars are suitable for certain kinds of driving. Whether they do or not is another matter. I have no idea.

It's just like the whole DPF thing really. People having issues with them when doing the wrong type of driving and find it's not under warranty and they have to fit the bill for it.

Regardless if they were told in the first place about it or not from the dealership, i don't see how they're due compensation for it. I've not known it to be the case so i suspect not much will come of this either.

So you don't think that if a car is sufficiently unsuitable for a certain kind of driving that it will suffer a premature mechanical failure (as with a DPF) as a result that there is an onus of responsibility on the manufacturer to inform potential buyers?

How are customers supposed to know that certain cars are unsuitable for certain kinds of driving unless the manufacturer tells them?

[Devil2575]

culpz said:

I really don't think this will be the case. No-one will care when all this is over, despite the outcome.

VW's reputation has not been tarnished. Most people probably couldn't care less. I'm pretty sure most forgot about the scandal until this potential compensation claim came about. They have and will continue to sell plenty of cars.

Plus, how do you/can you prove that is the specific reason for the drop in re-sale value?

Well it fking should be.

You might not care less, but plenty of people do care that they have been lied too.