RE: TDI the new PPI
Discussion
Devil2575 said:
So you don't think that if a car is sufficiently unsuitable for a certain kind of driving that it will suffer a premature mechanical failure (as with a DPF) as a result that there is an onus of responsibility on the manufacturer to inform potential buyers?
How are customers supposed to know that certain cars are unsuitable for certain kinds of driving unless the manufacturer tells them?
Easy. Research.How are customers supposed to know that certain cars are unsuitable for certain kinds of driving unless the manufacturer tells them?
The manufacturer also WILL state that information somewhere. Where abouts they do so and how they do so is a different matter.
culpz said:
daveco said:
The value of their cars will go down.
They are now driving around in a car that a portion of the public perceive to have been bad for the environment.
They will have more difficulty than before selling it on, or trading it in against another marque.
I really don't think this will be the case. No-one will care when all this is over, despite the outcome. They are now driving around in a car that a portion of the public perceive to have been bad for the environment.
They will have more difficulty than before selling it on, or trading it in against another marque.
VW's reputation has not been tarnished. Most people probably couldn't care less. I'm pretty sure most forgot about the scandal until this potential compensation claim came about. They have and will continue to sell plenty of cars.
Plus, how do you/can you prove that is the specific reason for the drop in re-sale value?
If VW are selling new cars at a discount how do you think that will affect the claimant's used cars value?
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-08-25...
culpz said:
Devil2575 said:
So you don't think that if a car is sufficiently unsuitable for a certain kind of driving that it will suffer a premature mechanical failure (as with a DPF) as a result that there is an onus of responsibility on the manufacturer to inform potential buyers?
How are customers supposed to know that certain cars are unsuitable for certain kinds of driving unless the manufacturer tells them?
Easy. Research.How are customers supposed to know that certain cars are unsuitable for certain kinds of driving unless the manufacturer tells them?
The manufacturer also WILL state that information somewhere. Where abouts they do so and how they do so is a different matter.
If there is important information relating to a product then the manufacturer should be very clear about this to their customers. It is not sufficient to just say "they should have done their research".
Devil2575 said:
Well it f
king should be.
You might not care less, but plenty of people do care that they have been lied too.
I do love how personally this all gets taken.king should be.You might not care less, but plenty of people do care that they have been lied too.
Plenty people really don't care though as they have not suffered any kind of significant financial loss. Again, the potential claim of any kind of money back despite this is obviously and clearly appealing.
Devil2575 said:
Do you work for VAG?
If there is important information relating to a product then the manufacturer should be very clear about this to their customers. It is not sufficient to just say "they should have done their research".
It all links in to emissions regulations and what-not. It's not like DPF's are only a VAG thing. That's not VW's fault is it?If there is important information relating to a product then the manufacturer should be very clear about this to their customers. It is not sufficient to just say "they should have done their research".
I'd hope everyone does their own research before getting a car tbh. Not all cars are bought from new from dealerships so, unless you're always buying brand new or from an approved used dealership, yes, research is pretty important.
No, I'm not VW. But do you really think that they haven't got backup(s) to counter all these claims that are going to hit them soon enough?
Edited by culpz on Thursday 12th January 13:30
culpz said:
Devil2575 said:
Well it fking should be.
You might not care less, but plenty of people do care that they have been lied too.
I do love how personally this all gets taken.king should be.You might not care less, but plenty of people do care that they have been lied too.
Plenty people really don't care though as they have not suffered any kind of significant financial loss. Again, the potential claim of any kind of money back despite this is obviously and clearly appealing.
Devil2575 said:
People should care. The environment that we live in is pretty important. Not caring that a car you bought is emiting a lot more pollutants that have been linked to increased mortality is at best stupid.
In that case, have a go at our lovely Government that pushed the public into buying diesel in the first place over petrol.That alone is more embarrassing than any scandal from any manufacturer as far as i'm concerned.
culpz said:
Devil2575 said:
People should care. The environment that we live in is pretty important. Not caring that a car you bought is emiting a lot more pollutants that have been linked to increased mortality is at best stupid.
In that case, have a go at our lovely Government that pushed the public into buying diesel in the first place over petrol.That alone is more embarrassing than any scandal from any manufacturer as far as i'm concerned.
Also to be fair to the government, they were looking at one problem, CO2, and trying to do something about that.
Edited by Devil2575 on Thursday 12th January 14:41
Devil2575 said:
The government doing something stupid is embarrassing, manufacturers lying is far worse IMHO.
Also to be fair to the government, they were looking at one problem, CO2, and trying to do something about that.
It's a bit more serious than "something stupid". You said yourself that openly polluting the environment we live in is very important matter. The Government basically allowed that to happen for all these years. How is that worse?Also to be fair to the government, they were looking at one problem, CO2, and trying to do something about that.
Edited by Devil2575 on Thursday 12th January 14:41
That's a bad excuse really. I think the Government should know better than a manufacturer of motor vehicles. Emissions is just something they need to adhere to. VW weren't the only ones who's cars were producing more pollution than they should.
Edited by culpz on Thursday 12th January 16:22
culpz said:
Devil2575 said:
The government doing something stupid is embarrassing, manufacturers lying is far worse IMHO.
Also to be fair to the government, they were looking at one problem, CO2, and trying to do something about that.
It's a bit more serious than "something stupid". You said yourself that openly polluting the environment we live in is very important matter. The Government basically allowed that to happen for all these years. How is that worse?Also to be fair to the government, they were looking at one problem, CO2, and trying to do something about that.
Edited by Devil2575 on Thursday 12th January 14:41
That's a bad excuse really. I think the Government should know better than a manufacturer of motor vehicles. Emissions is just something they need to adhere to. VW weren't the only ones who's cars were producing more pollution than they should.
Edited by culpz on Thursday 12th January 16:22
How is it worse?
If someone is taken for a fool by a con artist who is worse? The fool or the con artist?
Devil2575 said:
culpz said:
Devil2575 said:
The government doing something stupid is embarrassing, manufacturers lying is far worse IMHO.
Also to be fair to the government, they were looking at one problem, CO2, and trying to do something about that.
It's a bit more serious than "something stupid". You said yourself that openly polluting the environment we live in is very important matter. The Government basically allowed that to happen for all these years. How is that worse?Also to be fair to the government, they were looking at one problem, CO2, and trying to do something about that.
Edited by Devil2575 on Thursday 12th January 14:41
That's a bad excuse really. I think the Government should know better than a manufacturer of motor vehicles. Emissions is just something they need to adhere to. VW weren't the only ones who's cars were producing more pollution than they should.
Edited by culpz on Thursday 12th January 16:22
How is it worse?
If someone is taken for a fool by a con artist who is worse? The fool or the con artist?
VAG however knowingly cheated. I think that's different from the Govt trying to reach its green house gas obligations and being given the wrong advice by experts.
Devil2575 said:
So your contention is that no one is bothered about how much their car pollutes?
Very few people are particularly bothered IMO, they wouldn't be owning a diesel car if they were.Even assuming a handful of people are genuinely upset that their car has emitted more NOx than the manufacturer led them to believe, how is this situation going to be fixed by them suing the manufacturer? Getting a cash payout isn't going to magically suck all the NOx back up the exhaust.
CoolHands said:
97% of diesel cars emit more NOx than official limit. It's all a joke.
Only one manufacturer put two fingers up at the testing system and therefore the government, VAG. No other manufacturer did this, their products might emit more than the government assumed would be the case but none of them apart from VAG took the piss.George111 said:
Only one manufacturer put two fingers up at the testing system and therefore the government, VAG. No other manufacturer did this, their products might emit more than the government assumed would be the case but none of them apart from VAG took the piss.
I quite admire them for doing that.George111 said:
Only one manufacturer put two fingers up at the testing system and therefore the government, VAG. No other manufacturer did this, their products might emit more than the government assumed would be the case but none of them apart from VAG took the piss.
And all manufacturers will now get smashed when WLTP comes in this September (and the RFL rates stay the same!)The collective pollution coming out of these so called polluting diesel engines VW produced in the main collectively does not amount to a pimple on a fly's ass. This is a bunch of NUTJOB environazi's going off the deep end.
I will make my point-The Atmosphere above the lower 48 United States up to 10,000 feet weighs approximately
92,056,873,112,851.05 tons give or take and is fully recycled every 7 to 10 days.
USEPA and CARB have no sensible model for predicting premature deaths other than full blown lies and BS
Your being Conned-VW should get an award for ingenuity and fuel economy
Instead stupid environazi's punish them
I will make my point-The Atmosphere above the lower 48 United States up to 10,000 feet weighs approximately
92,056,873,112,851.05 tons give or take and is fully recycled every 7 to 10 days.
USEPA and CARB have no sensible model for predicting premature deaths other than full blown lies and BS
Your being Conned-VW should get an award for ingenuity and fuel economy
Instead stupid environazi's punish them
Sheepshanks said:
George111 said:
Only one manufacturer put two fingers up at the testing system and therefore the government, VAG. No other manufacturer did this, their products might emit more than the government assumed would be the case but none of them apart from VAG took the piss.
I quite admire them for doing that.As long as you don't count FiatChrysler whose stock value lost $2.3bn after being accused by the EPA of electronically cheating the emissions tests in over 100,000 of its vehicles, that is.
VAG are the only one, so far. Apart from the other one.
drfuelinstein said:
The collective pollution coming out of these so called polluting diesel engines VW produced in the main collectively does not amount to a pimple on a fly's ass. This is a bunch of NUTJOB environazi's going off the deep end.
I will make my point-The Atmosphere above the lower 48 United States up to 10,000 feet weighs approximately
92,056,873,112,851.05 tons give or take and is fully recycled every 7 to 10 days.
USEPA and CARB have no sensible model for predicting premature deaths other than full blown lies and BS
Your being Conned-VW should get an award for ingenuity and fuel economy
Instead stupid environazi's punish them
Oh god. Stop being a clown.I will make my point-The Atmosphere above the lower 48 United States up to 10,000 feet weighs approximately
92,056,873,112,851.05 tons give or take and is fully recycled every 7 to 10 days.
USEPA and CARB have no sensible model for predicting premature deaths other than full blown lies and BS
Your being Conned-VW should get an award for ingenuity and fuel economy
Instead stupid environazi's punish them
Leggy said:
ingrowtn said:
Let me say from the outset I would not be affected; I've not owned a Volkswagen for many many years and am not affiliated to the claiming company.
Simply put, if you were affected then you should do it (either with the claiming company or, if a class action is successful, there may be other ways in the future). This type of action is how we, as the consumers buying their products can hold them to account and for breaking the trust given to them.
Changing loyalties is another way but then again some people may not want to, I mean how many people changes their banks after making a PPi claim, I didn't. If is is proven that a claim may exist then people affected will be entitled, and I stress entitled, to receive recompense. If there is entitlement then why would someone not seek what they are entitled to. Manufacturers won't do it again!!
I agree. They have dragged their feet on this and need to be held to account. I've had Audis for 18 years. Tomorrow my 2.0 tdi A4 goes back and I will not be getting another Audi/VAG product. I may not have directly suffered but I have always begrudgingly gone with diesel because of company car tax lower than petrol, and I hate the idea that my emissions unbeknown to me are contributing to the worsening air quality.Simply put, if you were affected then you should do it (either with the claiming company or, if a class action is successful, there may be other ways in the future). This type of action is how we, as the consumers buying their products can hold them to account and for breaking the trust given to them.
Changing loyalties is another way but then again some people may not want to, I mean how many people changes their banks after making a PPi claim, I didn't. If is is proven that a claim may exist then people affected will be entitled, and I stress entitled, to receive recompense. If there is entitlement then why would someone not seek what they are entitled to. Manufacturers won't do it again!!
Considering the unfair competitive advantage they must have gained I'm surprised no other car manufacturers have waded in. But that probably suggests they have their own skeletons!
Edited by Leggy on Monday 9th January 19:40
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